|
Chemy
Jesus is Lord

Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
|
Re: Reviving an important moral debate, with a poll and purpose.... [Re: gumkeegan]
#8674756 - 07/24/08 01:18 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
gumkeegan said: You're contradicting yourself, Chemy, and I'm getting tired of arguing with people who contradict themselves.
gumkeegan
How did I contradict myself?
Go to the Shroomery news service forum and read some mushroom bust threads, and LSD bust threads, these are dangerous drugs, and in my opinion, these drugs are immoral, and those that use them should be arrested and imprisoned, LSD and mushrooms are dangerous drugs that need to remain illegal.
I am a moralist busybody, and I should pick and choose what you can or can not use.
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
|
gumkeegan
I can relate to my toes



Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 107
Loc: prescott, az
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
|
Re: Reviving an important moral debate, with a poll and purpose.... [Re: Chemy]
#8674768 - 07/24/08 01:20 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Then all I have to say to you is:
fuck you too.
gumkeegan
|
Kada
Asha'man


Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,394
Loc: Buckeye
Last seen: 1 day, 5 hours
|
Re: Reviving an important moral debate, with a poll and purpose.... [Re: gumkeegan]
#8674813 - 07/24/08 01:31 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
What a person chooses to ingest, is no fucking buisness to anyone other than that person. When they actually commit a crimminal act against others, then THAT is a good reason to arrest them. Freedom of choice to choose and in harming non do what you will. That is freedom.
-------------------- ~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
|
Cameron
Too Many Words



Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 4,437
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Reviving an important moral debate, with a poll and purpose.... [Re: learningtofly]
#8674816 - 07/24/08 01:32 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I do lean towards an age minimum because the brain of a child is not fully developed yet.
Actually, the brain isn't fully developed until age twenty-five.  But I'd also like to see an age minimum of at least eighteen or nineteen. Hopefully the majority are responsible enough by then.
|
Chemy
Jesus is Lord

Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
|
Re: Reviving an important moral debate, with a poll and purpose.... [Re: gumkeegan]
#8674821 - 07/24/08 01:33 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I need to start using the /sarcasm tag.
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
Edited by Chemy (07/24/08 02:04 AM)
|
gumkeegan
I can relate to my toes



Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 107
Loc: prescott, az
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
|
Re: Reviving an important moral debate, with a poll and purpose.... [Re: gumkeegan]
#8674907 - 07/24/08 01:52 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Just found a signature on another thread that I think is quite relevant to this debate.
Quote:
Jack Albertson wrote:
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say 'I think,' 'I am,' but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
Thanks, Jack.
gumkeegan
|
Crasher
αἱρετίζω




Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 6,220
Loc: Tardy to the Party
|
Re: Reviving an important moral debate, with a poll and purpose.... [Re: Chemy]
#8675199 - 07/24/08 05:10 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Chemy said: IMO psychedelics and marijuana should be illegal, however, heroin and cocaine should be legal.
Marijuana makes people amotivational, and marijuana smokers should be arrested, to prevent them from using it, since prohibition works well, quite well.
Psychedlics can cause "freakouts", the last thing I want, in my moral idea of society, is naked trippers running around exposing my children to nudity, and lewdness, take their asses to jail, it's immoral to use those substances, and therefore should be illegal.
Cocaine and heroin users are usually reclusive, making society safer, if I can't see what they do it's ok with me.
-------------------- Give me silence, water, hope; Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...
|
Crasher
αἱρετίζω




Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 6,220
Loc: Tardy to the Party
|
Re: Reviving an important moral debate, with a poll and purpose.... [Re: Crasher]
#8675210 - 07/24/08 05:27 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
You're giving me a horrible feeling of deja-vu, like I was still in the old thread. I think you're quoting that original poster here, not me, am I correct? I thought we might keep this relevant...
However, since you ask, I think there's not a valid point in comparing drug use to parenting, except in that they should both be considered proper rights. That's where the comparison ends for me.
The comparison of drug use to parenting is valid, especially if you would look at TheHappyHippy's recent post about Child Protective Services taking a neighbor's newborn under false pretense.
How you raise and care for your child is your business, and the government shouldn't have some arbitrary line in the sand that declares what good parenting is. Imagine this same agency demanding a state approved parenting application upon conception. What agency has any right to legislate into your life and family?
Now, you want the government to regulate recreational drug use, like the Fun Drugs Administration or something, that requires a test to allow me access to these narcotics. The same government that has approved distribution of countless dangerous prescriptions and raised shitstorms about bad tomatoes will now be charged with keeping America's drug use "regulated?"
It's not their place, it's doomed to failure. I want less government involvement in my choices, not more.
Quote:
And, I think the government should demand that people demonstrate their knowledge about tobacco, alcohol, and any other drug with a major effect, before letting them access them.
It's called DARE, and it's a fucking disaster of a program.
-------------------- Give me silence, water, hope; Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...
|
gumkeegan
I can relate to my toes



Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 107
Loc: prescott, az
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
|
Re: Reviving an important moral debate, with a poll and purpose.... [Re: Crasher]
#8675283 - 07/24/08 06:21 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Crasher said:
Quote:
You're giving me a horrible feeling of deja-vu, like I was still in the old thread. I think you're quoting that original poster here, not me, am I correct? I thought we might keep this relevant...
However, since you ask, I think there's not a valid point in comparing drug use to parenting, except in that they should both be considered proper rights. That's where the comparison ends for me.
The comparison of drug use to parenting is valid, especially if you would look at TheHappyHippy's recent post about Child Protective Services taking a neighbor's newborn under false pretense.
How you raise and care for your child is your business, and the government shouldn't have some arbitrary line in the sand that declares what good parenting is. Imagine this same agency demanding a state approved parenting application upon conception. What agency has any right to legislate into your life and family?
Now, you want the government to regulate recreational drug use, like the Fun Drugs Administration or something, that requires a test to allow me access to these narcotics. The same government that has approved distribution of countless dangerous prescriptions and raised shitstorms about bad tomatoes will now be charged with keeping America's drug use "regulated?"
It's not their place, it's doomed to failure. I want less government involvement in my choices, not more.
Quote:
And, I think the government should demand that people demonstrate their knowledge about tobacco, alcohol, and any other drug with a major effect, before letting them access them.
It's called DARE, and it's a fucking disaster of a program.
What I want is an end to prohibition, an end to raiding pot farms and clubs, an end to DEA agents invading someone's house, guns drawn, because they suspect they are harboring drugs, an end to innocent people being imprisoned. I do not expect a perfect world, however. The fact is that the government is involved in your choices. You will not avoid that and should not demand to. Don't you agree that regulation, even imperfect as it is sure to be, would be a huge step up from our current situation? Even if you had to take a test, similar to a driving test, to get a pot smoker's permit, wouldn't that be better than the constant threat of imprisonment? This is not DARE... DARE is fucked-up and should be replaced by real education. In fact, the entire public school system should be replaced by real education. But the tests could easily be made accurate, with the proper checks and balances in place. Government is not entirely inept at all things, or it wouldn't have existed for so long. It is currently inept at dealing with drug use as recreation (not to mention spiritual enlightenment), but isn't that what we're trying to fix ??
Surely a government that looked honestly at the question of whether and which drugs should be used would be less "doomed to failure" than a government that is bent on completely eradicating from the planet some substances that some people love....
I wonder: what do you think the governments of the world should do about drugs?
gumkeegan
|
Chemy
Jesus is Lord

Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
|
Re: Reviving an important moral debate, with a poll and purpose.... [Re: gumkeegan]
#8675393 - 07/24/08 07:24 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
gumkeegan said: Even if you had to take a test, similar to a driving test, to get a pot smoker's permit, wouldn't that be better than the constant threat of imprisonment? gumkeegan
My drivers license is suspended.
BTW I still drive,
BTW can you tell me who would be denied a drug permit? Who would be granted a drug permit, exactly what would this test, test?
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
|
badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,373
|
Re: Reviving an important moral debate, with a poll and purpose.... [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
#8675422 - 07/24/08 07:33 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
There is certainly logic in giving someone the right to their own body.
However, the issue is that an individuals actions may extend beyond them, and effect others (perhaps indirectly so).
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
Edited by badchad (07/24/08 07:34 AM)
|
Chemy
Jesus is Lord

Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
|
Re: Reviving an important moral debate, with a poll and purpose.... [Re: badchad]
#8675438 - 07/24/08 07:40 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
badchad said: There is certainly logic in giving someone the right to their own body.
However, the issue is that an individuals actions may extend beyond them, and effect others (perhaps indirectly so).
OK, are you saying all users should go to jail, because some users, may harm others?
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
|
WhiskeyClone
Not here


Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
|
Re: Reviving an important moral debate, with a poll and purpose.... [Re: badchad]
#8675467 - 07/24/08 07:51 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
badchad said: There is certainly logic in giving someone the right to their own body.
However, the issue is that an individuals actions may extend beyond them, and effect others (perhaps indirectly so).
Everything effects everything else, invariably, and we can't make everything illegal under the pretense that it may cause something undesirable for someone.
In your opinion, what indirect effects of drug use are best addressed by making drug use itself illegal?
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
|
WhiskeyClone
Not here


Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
|
Re: Reviving an important moral debate, with a poll and purpose.... [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#8680348 - 07/25/08 01:03 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
bump
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
|
Simisu
taken by gravity


Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 5,435
Loc: Israeli in
|
Re: Reviving an important moral debate, with a poll and purpose.... [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#8680896 - 07/25/08 04:02 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
too many people benefit from the "drug war"! they have loads of money and they intend to keep it that way... it's the same with many many other IMPORTANT issues. this world is run on money, where the money is is where the wind blows. its sad but that's the way i see it right now 
drugs should be legal IMHO, society (not the government) would need to educate it self to make that transition, but before that could happen we'd have to get rid of all this greed that rules our world.
i think it was the original poster that mentioned the idea of one world government or something of the sort (sorry I've been skimming a little). i think it's just as far as legal drugs... so many economic, interest and basic issues to go through before we'll be ready to deal with that...
its always nice to think about the ideal, but never try to work your way back to reality, rather acknowledge your reality and try to make it better towards your ideals
--------------------
   Shr mery    Visit & Support Free Spore Ring Earth Please help spread live Salvia Divinorum
|
|