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Gumby
Fishnologist


Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 26,656
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I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it.
#8677160 - 07/24/08 05:09 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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I just found my box of vaseline glass. If you're not familiar with vaseline glass, it is a glass that is dyed using uranium ore. This gives it a color that is kind of like that of a vaseline container. It tends to be a little more yellow though.
But, because the vaseline glass has uranium in it, when it is hit with UV/near UV light (like black light) it glows bright green.
Also as a result of the uranium, it gives off radiation. I've had a couple of pieces tested with a Geiger counter and it was giving off alpha and beta radiation, don't remember the count though.
I collect the stuff mainly because its... well just cool. And its a hell of a conversation piece when you break out the black light (not to mention fun to look at while tripping ).
So my "experiment"... I put a piece about 3-4 inches away from two Bromeliad plants. I want to see if the radiation is strong enough to do anything to the plants. My control? Eh.. they were doing great before I put the vaseline glass next to them
My prediction is that the leaves closest to the glass will die or loose color.
I had this stuff in a drawer and it discolored the laminate on the particle board. I also have a big vaseline glass mixing bowl that I use as a change bowl. Behind that was one of the old 1950s fallout shelter signs. Within 3 years of the sign being by the bowl, the bottom of the sign is barely black anymore and the texture has changed. It feels pitted.
Don't worry, I know some of this stuff probably is emitting harmful radiation. But nothing too strong. I just make sure to wash my hands before putting them near mucous membranes.
Once the sun goes down I'll get pictures. Right now it would just be a silhouette of the experiment :P
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Gumby]
#8677178 - 07/24/08 05:14 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Very cool! 
Maybe your control could be the leaves opposite of the vase. Same plant, same watering and nutrients. The only difference is it would get less radiation. To maximize the difference in radiation between the close leaf and the far leaf you would want the source right next to the close leaf.
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Gumby
Fishnologist


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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: DieCommie]
#8677225 - 07/24/08 05:26 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah, thats exactly how I have it set up.
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Cepheus
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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Gumby]
#8677227 - 07/24/08 05:26 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Are you sure its releasing just alpha & beta? a normal geiger counter doesn't really detect gamma radiation as its not particularly ionising. Ideally you should use a sodium iodide scintillation counter .
I did a similar experiment for a paper on the absorption of gamma radiation, but I used Radium-226 as my source .
-------------------- "I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst
"...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" Free Spore Ring Europe Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution
Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux Addicting is not a word.
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Gumby
Fishnologist


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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Cepheus]
#8677250 - 07/24/08 05:34 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well, I don't know to tell you the truth.
When I was about 13 or 14 I had to have a bone scan done one time because they thought I may have fractured my spine. So they injected me with the radioactive isotope and sent me home for a few hours so it could work it's way into my bones. I asked them if I could bring some vaseline glass back to the hospital and have them test it with the giger counter. Technician said it was producing a moderate amount of radiation and I should be safe as long as I don't eat off of it or lick it, lol.
I have no clue what the actual reading was but that thing was clicking around in the middle range. As far as what kind of Geiger counter it was, no clue, whatever kind you'd find in the nuclear medicine section of a hospital.
I might take it in to my physics prof and see if he can tell me if it's producing gamma.
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Cepheus
Balance




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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Gumby]
#8677361 - 07/24/08 06:13 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Probably a Geiger-Muller tube, which uses the fact that radiation is ionising to produce a pd and therefore allowing the radioactivity to be determined.
Nuclear physics is probably one of my favourite topics .
-------------------- "I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst
"...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" Free Spore Ring Europe Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution
Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux Addicting is not a word.
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Gumby
Fishnologist


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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Cepheus]
#8677455 - 07/24/08 07:00 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Alright, here's a picture of the set up... Nothing spectacular, but it should be interesting to see what happens. That particular piece is a paper weight type thing that is in the shape of a slipper. It is known to be a pretty radioactive piece.
Edit: No picture... durrr
Edited by Gumby (07/24/08 07:01 PM)
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BrainChemistry
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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Gumby]
#8677505 - 07/24/08 07:15 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
My prediction is that the leaves closest to the glass will die or loose color.
Don't be so sure of that. It might mutate into a ginormus, flesh eating, plant spawn of Satan. I'd be sure to have an escape plan.
-------------------- Word to your mom.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: BrainChemistry]
#8677539 - 07/24/08 07:27 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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They used to use uranium in a lot of household products. I have an old ashtray from the 60's that has bright orange-yellow uranium paint on it. Uranium was also used in roofing tar. Natural uranium isn't very radioactive. Uranium decays via alpha. Some of the decay products decay again via alpha, beta and gamma. (Though gamma is very rare in this sequence...)
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Gumby
Fishnologist


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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Seuss]
#8677660 - 07/24/08 08:02 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Suess, have you ever tried to see if the paint glows under a black light? If you haven't, give it a try. I find it fascinating how things will glow when a certain wavelength of light excites it's electrons.
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PhanTomCat
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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Gumby]
#8677803 - 07/24/08 08:38 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gumby said: I should be safe as long as I don't eat off of it or lick it, lol.
After being told not to, you MUST lick the glass..... 
It sure is a bright green....!
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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Cepheus
Balance




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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Seuss]
#8677827 - 07/24/08 08:45 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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I would have thought an alpha source would be used instead of a mixed source like uranium ore; a good example would be the Americium-241 in smoke detectors...
But yeah we're subjected to a reasonable amount of alpha, beta and gamma radiation everyday, so I can't imagine anything bad will happen... I handled a source of radium-226 for a couple of weeks.. and I haven't grown another arm (yet) .
-------------------- "I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst
"...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" Free Spore Ring Europe Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution
Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux Addicting is not a word.
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delta9
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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Gumby]
#8679118 - 07/25/08 02:57 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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If they have any melanin like those mushrooms, maybe they will actually do BETTER (or perhaps it is a plant processes completely unrelated to melanin and they can do it with their clorophyle).
-------------------- delta9
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Cepheus]
#8679207 - 07/25/08 04:16 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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> I would have thought an alpha source would be used instead of a mixed source like uranium ore
Uranium was used in building materials and paints much like lead. At the time, they didn't realize how dangerous radioactivity was. There was even a radioactive toothpaste that made your teeth glow bright white! (Doramad Radiozahn, or something close to that.)
> I handled a source of radium-226 for a couple of weeks.. and I haven't grown another arm (yet) .
I did a lot of work with thorium... When I die, this will probably be the initial cause.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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zouden
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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Gumby]
#8679386 - 07/25/08 07:12 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Nice work Gumby! I'll definitely be interested to see what happens. At first I was dubious that you'd see any difference until you mentioned how it discoloured the laminate 
I often see uranium glass antiques on ebay but I haven't bought any of it yet. I thought there was another name (other than vaseline glass).
Edit: I found it - "depression glass" due to the era it was manufactured in (not because it gives your loved ones radiation sickness)
Edited by zouden (07/25/08 07:15 AM)
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Hematite
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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: zouden]
#8683615 - 07/26/08 10:18 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Uranium glass is used all of the time in scientific glass blowing to get a good seal between glass and metal. How radioactive your glass is depends on how pure the uranium was that was used. Natural uranium is a mixture of 235U and 238U. 235 decays through 14 steps to lead 207, while 238 decays through 17 steps to lead 206. A chunk of natural uranium that has been sitting around for a few million years will be in decay equilibrium, meaning that it will contain, in addition to 235U, 238U, 207Pb, and 206Pb, all of the nuclides that link uranium to lead, in concentrations directly proportional to their half-lives, so that on average every time a uranium atom decays and atom of every one of its daughter nuclides also will decay. Think of it as water flowing through a pipe. Matter enters the decay series at one end in the form of uranium and comes out the other end as lead. In the same way that the number of water molecules flowing through a pipe does not change, the number of atoms entering the decay series must equal the number leaving the decay series.
But if uranium is purified, all of these daughter nuclides are removed, which means that newly purified uranium is much less radioactive than old natural uranium. Once purified both 235U and 238U will take hundreds of thousands of years to re-establish equilibrium with their daughter nuclides because each have daughter nuclides with long half lives, and it takes a long time for these to accumulate to the point where the rest of the decay series is operating at full intensity.
Uranium glass isn't hazardous. Uranium is extremely common: anyone with a good sized back yard has more than enough to build their own reactor, so the amount of additional radiation you are exposing yourself to with uranium glass is minimal. Chances are that it's no worse than a few cubic feet of garden soil. The main danger from uranium is that it emits radon (a daughter element in the decay of both 235 and 238U), which can get inside you allowing part of the uranium decay series to set up shop in your body, where the normally harmless alpha radiation can wreak havoc with your cells. But almost no radon can diffuse out of glass, so that danger is averted.
If you want to you can buy minerals that have much higher uranium concentrations than uranium glass. Ebay is a good place to look. Or, depending on what part of the country you live in, you could go out and find your own.
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Minstrel
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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Hematite]
#8688621 - 07/27/08 02:44 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Good ole actinides and their F orbitals, and their crazy metal fluorescence.
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Gumby
Fishnologist


Registered: 06/13/01
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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Gumby]
#8699636 - 07/29/08 09:33 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Just a quick update:
So far... Nothin'. One of the leaves on the plant on the left seems to be dying... but from natural causes. Damned Bromeliads are picky.
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Minstrel
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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Gumby]
#8701331 - 07/30/08 09:21 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Do you know the concentration of U in the glass? Do you know how it compares with what you'd might find in it's environment?
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LuNaTiX
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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Gumby]
#8703842 - 07/30/08 06:51 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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crush the glass up and mix it with the water your using to feed the plant, wouldn't the radiation leech out into the water?, or perhaps put the glass in the soil? just my 2 cents.
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Hematite
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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: LuNaTiX]
#8704311 - 07/30/08 08:40 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
LuNaTiX said: crush the glass up and mix it with the water your using to feed the plant, wouldn't the radiation leech out into the water?, or perhaps put the glass in the soil? just my 2 cents.
Maybe a little would leach out if he used a strong acid, but not otherwise. Volcanic ash-- basically natural glass powder-- retains uranium very efficiently.
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Effed


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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Gumby]
#8744677 - 08/08/08 03:01 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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This has been done already!
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PhanTomCat
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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Effed]
#8745142 - 08/08/08 04:46 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Effed said: This has been done already!
That is freakin cool....! Is it a corpes flower....? (if it is, I wouldn't think that the guy would be smiling!)
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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zouden
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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8745505 - 08/08/08 06:09 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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He's probably holding his breath...
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Gumby
Fishnologist


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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Gumby]
#8858473 - 09/01/08 12:11 AM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well I aborted the experiment after about 3 weeks. No change at all, just normal plant growth. Perhaps I'll try again with a different radiation source, just for the hell of it.
Anyways, I took pictures of it under a black light (also posted these in the pub). Here ya go:


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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: Gumby]
#8858633 - 09/01/08 01:01 AM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well, the null result is still a result. Now there is evidence that radiation from vaseline glass doesn't adversely effect plant life.
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zouden
Neuroscientist


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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: DieCommie]
#8858882 - 09/01/08 02:35 AM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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Correction: doesn't affect bromeliads in a way that causes visible changes to the leaves 
Great photos!
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Effed


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Re: I'm doing an experiement just for the hell of it. [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8867264 - 09/02/08 05:43 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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Its the largest flower in the world Rafflesia arnoldii.
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