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Alcebiades
Stranger thanMost

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 39
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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First Bulk Grow w/Pics!
#8676042 - 07/24/08 11:46 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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So, I pulled off my first bulk grow! I did a MSI->Winter Rye->Coir+Worm Castings... Didn't do a casing this time, but I am planning on using 50/50+ on my next project. Many thanks to all the folks on here who answered my questions and pointed me in the right direction!
Pics:
Overview of F+ substrate. Im VERY happy with my pinset here!

Close up of F+ Substrate.

Another close up of F+ sub.

Overview of B+ Substrate.
 Im not as happy with the pinset here, but Im planning on doing a cloning/strain isolation off of the fruits from this harvest.
Close up of B+ Sub. This is my main candidate so far for cloning/strain isolation...

Another close up of B+ Sub.

And another close up... 
[url=http://files.shroomery.org/files/08-30/692034746-CIMG0297.jpg][image]
Ive still got a R44 substrate colonizing, so more pin porn is on the way!
Hope you all enjoy!
-Al
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Blumpy
MycoNovice



Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 16
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: Alcebiades]
#8676071 - 07/24/08 11:53 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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So there is no casing in this whatsoever?
It's just a tray full of substrate?
hrm, that seems VERY straightforward....
Care to elaborate? (I'm a noob)
-------------------- What is Real?
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gethyn
MR.STINK FINGER



Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 758
Loc: first row at church
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: Alcebiades]
#8676072 - 07/24/08 11:53 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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In that last pic it looks like they might be straining a little do to the bluing. Do you have good RH going
-------------------- I RESEMBLE THE REST
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Alcebiades
Stranger thanMost

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 39
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: gethyn]
#8676093 - 07/24/08 11:58 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's always between 90-95% rH... I think the problem *may* be that my booms are growing toward the light. Anybody know if cubes are phototropic like plants are? I rotated my FC after I took the pics so the light is now coming from the opposite direction just in case... My next grow will be in monotubs with a light source directly above to eliminate this problem.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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psylopsycho
Motivational Speaker



Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 503
Loc: The Tundra
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: Blumpy]
#8676100 - 07/24/08 11:59 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Blumpy said: So there is no casing in this whatsoever?
It's just a tray full of substrate?
hrm, that seems VERY straightforward....
Care to elaborate? (I'm a noob)
As you can see this tray is uncased. A Casing layer is what covers the colonized substrate to create a microclimate for the mushies.
I believe you have substrate & casing mixed up.
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Someone actually said: "some 1 told me to try long brown rice and water and vermiculite and pressure cook for 1 hour i did but nothing happen that is y was wonting to no if i need spores ""
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robanero
β Lib


Registered: 09/05/06
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: Alcebiades]
#8676116 - 07/24/08 12:03 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alcebiades said: Anybody know if cubes are phototropic like plants are? My next grow will be in monotubs with a light source directly above to eliminate this problem.
They're not.
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310 open cap Hawaiians grown a 1 pint WBSF cake.
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Blumpy
MycoNovice



Registered: 07/24/08
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: psylopsycho]
#8676126 - 07/24/08 12:05 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
psylopsycho said:
Quote:
Blumpy said: So there is no casing in this whatsoever?
It's just a tray full of substrate?
hrm, that seems VERY straightforward....
Care to elaborate? (I'm a noob)
As you can see this tray is uncased. A Casing layer is what covers the colonized substrate to create a microclimate for the mushies.
I believe you have substrate & casing mixed up.
Hrm maybe I do... help me out, these pictures are of a substrate (fully colonized by Mycelium) without anything put on top of it for microclimate (casing)
Is that correct? Does this work well? Seems to easy to be true...
-------------------- What is Real?
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Alcebiades
Stranger thanMost

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 39
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: Blumpy]
#8676127 - 07/24/08 12:05 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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And no casing on this one Blumpy. I was planning on casing, but my subs were already level with the top of the pans I'm using, so I figured why have it spill all over my FC... It's never a bad idea to do a casing layer from what I've read, as long as you do it right. In this instance it just would have been a mess due to lack of planning on my part. Besides, this grow is mostly for a cloning/isolation project. To steal from people who know a lot more than I do, a casing creates an *optimal* pinning environment, but is hardly necessary for pinning. Next time I'll be using 50/50+ to case... I'm doing monotubs with hpoo, straw, coir, gypsum and oyster shell flour, so I want to get the most bang for my buck lol!
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
Edited by Alcebiades (07/24/08 12:21 PM)
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Alcebiades
Stranger thanMost

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 39
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: robanero]
#8676147 - 07/24/08 12:10 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
robanero said:
Quote:
Alcebiades said: Anybody know if cubes are phototropic like plants are? My next grow will be in monotubs with a light source directly above to eliminate this problem.
They're not.
Any thoughts on why *every* fruit body on my B+ sub is growing in the same direction (i.e. toward the light source)? Any insight would be truly appreciated!
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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psylopsycho
Motivational Speaker



Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 503
Loc: The Tundra
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: robanero]
#8676225 - 07/24/08 12:28 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
robanero said:
Quote:
Alcebiades said: Anybody know if cubes are phototropic like plants are? My next grow will be in monotubs with a light source directly above to eliminate this problem.
They're not.
Mushrooms are not plants and do not need light to grow. However, P. cubensis is a phototropic mushroom. This means it needs light to trigger a hormonal response in order to form mushrooms. If you can see the rice cakes, there is enough light for this to happen. Many mycologists believe the reason light is important in the growing cycle is because it provides a reliable clue to the mycelium that it has reached the boundary of the substrate in which it is growing. In nature, P. cubensis often lives in a pile of cow manure. Once it has grown through the entire substrate and reaches the edge, light hits it and provides the mycelium with the information that if it forms a mushroom there, it can release spores into the air for distribution. It is not productive to form a mushroom inside the substrate because the spores can not be distributed in that case. Any normal spectrum of light that you have available will work. Sun light, fluorescent or incandescent are all fine and will work. A few minutes of light a day is sufficient but an hour or two will guarantee that pin heads form if everything else (temperature, humidity, the mycelium network is well established, etc.) is right. Be careful not to heat your terrarium too much if you use artificial light near the terrarium.
Credits : The Magic Mushroom Growers Guide Version 3.2 (10-02-96) Version 3.22 (Nov 2005, erowid.org)
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Someone actually said: "some 1 told me to try long brown rice and water and vermiculite and pressure cook for 1 hour i did but nothing happen that is y was wonting to no if i need spores ""
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seven
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Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1,478
Loc: north carolina
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: psylopsycho]
#8676273 - 07/24/08 12:55 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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i notice you keep sayin something about a cloning\isolation project. you can use that grow for coloning. and testing the fruits of that MS grow. but i dont understand what you mean by useing a fruit for isolation. by the end of a MS grow you are limited to only a few substrainS. if you are trying to acheive an isolate, you have to start with spores on agar. or am i missing something?
-------------------- grind
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seven
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Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1,478
Loc: north carolina
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: seven]
#8676288 - 07/24/08 12:59 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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search strain isolation i think you are confused
-------------------- grind
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chobumms
Pokemon Master



Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 1,780
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: seven]
#8676314 - 07/24/08 01:11 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Cubes are definitely phototropic, but they don't use the sun for energy, they derive that from the substrate.
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[/url]
My "Faster Germination For Popcorn Substrate" TEK
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8428361#8428361
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robanero
β Lib


Registered: 09/05/06
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: chobumms]
#8676416 - 07/24/08 01:44 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
orchidfanatic said: I read in a book that they need around 8 hours of light a day some will disagree with this. also the amount of light needed is small the book said if you can see in the room they have enough light. it really doesn't need to be bright a desk lamp is more than enough light
Which is exactly why you must be careful with what you read around here, because that sentence is 100% wrong. There is a huge difference in a mediocre harvest, and a wall to wall flush. Search for your answer. I refuse to type the whole darn thing all over again every week just because the thread is no longer on the front page. RR
Quote:
Bacchus said: I found this in half the time that it took you to compose your first post. Guaranteed.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: The outright disinformation being presented as advice in this thread is quite unbelievable.
Light has absolutely NOTHING to do with telling the mycelium that it has reached the surface. The increased fresh air, with the corresponding drop in CO2 levels sends the mycelium that message.
Light is also NOT just to establish the direction the fruits grow. In fact, air currents have a greater effect on direction of growth than light. If you doubt this, place a fan on your crop and watch.
A few seconds of light per day will NOT help to generate a good pinset. In fact, light is a secondary pinning trigger, but an important one. The difference between three or four pins, and hundreds of pins on a substrate can be directly correlated to the length, intensity, and frequency of the light applied, provided the primary pinning triggers have been fulfilled.
The light needs to be intense enough to penetrate 1/2" into the substrate. Not all pins form on the surface. Many originate from deeper in the substrate or casing layer.
Higher frequency light above a color temperature of 5,000 Kelvin will generate far more pins than a 'red' source of light such as incandescent lamps.
Fungi is a living organism that is much more closely related to mammals such as humans, than to plants. People need to quit looking at mycelium as a different kind of plant, which it isn't. Mycelium has been shown to have circadian rhythms just like mammals, and this is the reason that 12/12 light cycles work best. This planet, and all surface life on it are based on the 24 hour day. For best results, learn to work with nature rather than against it. Mycelium has an amazing ability to cope with less than optimal conditions, and will often fruit when a grower does everything wrong. However, do everything right and watch your performance go through the roof. RR
This is where I got this info. Although these do not specifically say that they are not photo tropic, I believe there is a post by RR that says that they are not. I could read all of RR's post to find it but I'M not going to. I may stand corrected on this and if so I will graciously learn and remember it.
--------------------
 
310 open cap Hawaiians grown a 1 pint WBSF cake.
SPAWN RATIO CALCULATOR
My Little Hawaiians
Spawn Bag Tek
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chobumms
Pokemon Master



Registered: 08/01/07
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: robanero]
#8676443 - 07/24/08 01:52 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks for clearing that up, Secondary pinning trigger is the key. The more oxygen it gets, the faster it begins to pin, and he's probably saying that this fungus grows towards the light, but is more effected by the air currents.
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[/url]
My "Faster Germination For Popcorn Substrate" TEK
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8428361#8428361
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robanero
β Lib


Registered: 09/05/06
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: chobumms]
#8676546 - 07/24/08 02:21 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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No problem. I'm not saying that RR is 100% right, but he is right more often than not if he is ever wrong.LOL If some one can give me something from Stamets or some other credible EXPERT that actually says that P. cubensis is photo tropic and actually says "photo tropic", I would love to read up on it. I know that there is a lot of outdated info out there so be aware of dates.
Thanks Roban
PS I am in no way trying to get in to a pissing contest. I just like accurate info, and if I'm wrong I want to be corrected so I don't give inaccurate info.
--------------------
 
310 open cap Hawaiians grown a 1 pint WBSF cake.
SPAWN RATIO CALCULATOR
My Little Hawaiians
Spawn Bag Tek
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chobumms
Pokemon Master



Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 1,780
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: robanero]
#8676623 - 07/24/08 02:43 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
robanero said: No problem. I'm not saying that RR is 100% right, but he is right more often than not if he is ever wrong.LOL If some one can give me something from Stamets or some other credible EXPERT that actually says that P. cubensis is photo tropic and actually says "photo tropic", I would love to read up on it. I know that there is a lot of outdated info out there so be aware of dates.
Thanks Roban
PS I am in no way trying to get in to a pissing contest. I just like accurate info, and if I'm wrong I want to be corrected so I don't give inaccurate info.
Amen to that. I'll just shut up til' someone comes along and says the right answer.
--------------------
[/url]
My "Faster Germination For Popcorn Substrate" TEK
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8428361#8428361
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robanero
β Lib


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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: chobumms]
#8676649 - 07/24/08 02:50 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
chobumms said:
Quote:
robanero said: No problem. I'm not saying that RR is 100% right, but he is right more often than not if he is ever wrong.LOL If some one can give me something from Stamets or some other credible EXPERT that actually says that P. cubensis is photo tropic and actually says "photo tropic", I would love to read up on it. I know that there is a lot of outdated info out there so be aware of dates.
Thanks Roban
PS I am in no way trying to get in to a pissing contest. I just like accurate info, and if I'm wrong I want to be corrected so I don't give inaccurate info.
Amen to that. I'll just shut up til' someone comes along and says the right answer.
I decided to search RR's posts for the one I was thinking of and haven't found it so I'm beginning to think I made it up. Waiting to see if he slaps my PeePee. LOL
--------------------
 
310 open cap Hawaiians grown a 1 pint WBSF cake.
SPAWN RATIO CALCULATOR
My Little Hawaiians
Spawn Bag Tek
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Blumpy
MycoNovice



Registered: 07/24/08
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: Alcebiades]
#8676692 - 07/24/08 02:58 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks for the info...
-------------------- What is Real?
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chobumms
Pokemon Master



Registered: 08/01/07
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: Blumpy]
#8676832 - 07/24/08 03:33 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
so I'm beginning to think I made it up
What the hell? How can we get in a pissing contest if the urine might be made up?
P.S. Who is that hot ass girl in your avatar?
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[/url]
My "Faster Germination For Popcorn Substrate" TEK
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8428361#8428361
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robanero
β Lib


Registered: 09/05/06
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: chobumms]
#8676932 - 07/24/08 04:00 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
chobumms said:
Quote:
so I'm beginning to think I made it up
What the hell? How can we get in a pissing contest if the urine might be made up?
P.S. Who is that hot ass girl in your avatar?
LOL
That's a freak I used to do named Jen. She was TROUBLE.
--------------------
 
310 open cap Hawaiians grown a 1 pint WBSF cake.
SPAWN RATIO CALCULATOR
My Little Hawaiians
Spawn Bag Tek
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Alcebiades
Stranger thanMost

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 39
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: robanero]
#8677123 - 07/24/08 04:56 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks for all the feedback so far! By phototropic, I didn't mean photosynthetic (making food/energy from sunlight). Phototropism is a phenomenon in which some plants will "follow" the sun as it moves across the sky, thus maximizing the surface area of their leaves exposed to sunlight. I know that mushrooms aren't photosynthetic, but as my rH is constantly in the correct range (at least as far as my hygrometer tells me ) I thought perhaps they may be bending as a result of light coming at them from the side as opposed to directly overhead. Just a theory...
As far as doing a strain isolation, I was under the impression that you could do isolation at the same time as cloning. I primarily want to isolate a strain that grows single large fruits as opposed to clusters. Also, I want the myc. to be as rizomorphic as possible. While I can definitely achieve the second objective isolating a strain from spores, I'd have no idea if I'd achieved the first objective until I used said isolate and fruited it. There was something on here that said if you isolated a crappy strain, you'd be better off just using MSI, I believe it was in the bulk neglect report feedback. From what I've read (first timer here) doing a strain isolation from the flesh of a mature fruit is not only quicker (as you said, only a few strains to isolate as opposed to hundreds with a spore isolation), you also know the phenotype of the strain you're isolating (size, potency, pinset, etc.). I'll certainly take your advice and reread some posts to make sure I'm not mistaken.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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seven
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Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1,478
Loc: north carolina
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: Alcebiades]
#8677239 - 07/24/08 05:30 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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ok if you want lots of clusters clone the fruits from clusters. if you want solo standing mushrooms clone the solo guys. seriously ! it kinda sounded like i was jokeing. but i wasnt.
-------------------- grind
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seven
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Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1,478
Loc: north carolina
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: seven]
#8677300 - 07/24/08 05:48 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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you should separate cloning and isolation in your mind. but you can find traits that you desire by cloning as well but it isnt called isolating. SAY you MSI four jars then case them in four trays , each tray may end up with different dominant substrains.then you clone three solo guys from each tray and grow each out apart from eachother. then you will have twelve trays of solostanding mushrooms to pick the tray that has the traits that you like. like size, potentsy :ect. this isnt really isolating its just cloning for the traits that you like. anyone correct me if im wrong anywhere cuz im new.
-------------------- grind
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Blumpy
MycoNovice



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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: chobumms]
#8677409 - 07/24/08 06:32 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hot eh? She's a new superhero
Shroom Girl!
-------------------- What is Real?
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roquet
Expat tippler



Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 1,200
Loc: Dubai بجدية عربي...
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: seven]
#8677471 - 07/24/08 07:05 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
seven said: i dont understand what you mean by useing a fruit for isolation. by the end of a MS grow you are limited to only a few substrainS. if you are trying to acheive an isolate, you have to start with spores on agar. or am i missing something?
You don't need agar for isolation. Take tissue from a fruit and add it to LC to clone its genetics. That's an isolate. Grows from that LC will produce fruits with identical genetics, like identical twins. Doing it from fruits is the same principle as observing myc growth on agar.
You say there are many less substrains in a tray of fruits compared to a petri dish of multispore. Interesting idea but I don't know if that's true or not. What makes me question it is looking at pics of agar work, there don't seem to be a huge number of substrains to start with. People seem able to isolate in only a couple of transfers. And how do you know how many different substrains are on a tray of fruits?
Edited by roquet (07/24/08 09:57 PM)
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Alcebiades
Stranger thanMost

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 39
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: seven]
#8678230 - 07/24/08 10:30 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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So the idea is to do a MS isolation, then use it in a grow and find out if you like the phenotypes it produces. If you don't like the phenotype, do another MS isolation until you get what you want. THEN clone the best specimen?
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
Edited by Alcebiades (07/24/08 11:31 PM)
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roquet
Expat tippler



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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: Alcebiades]
#8678807 - 07/25/08 12:41 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't know what "phenotype" means but it's only possible to isolate once, ie. you can't isolate and then isolate from the isolate, if that's what you meant. Isolation is always from MS, the only difference is if it's MS on agar or MS fruits. Either way you clone what you like and keep it for future grows. What are phenotypes? I've never heard them brought into isolation/cloning (which are the same thing) discussion.
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Alcebiades
Stranger thanMost

Registered: 05/24/08
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: roquet]
#8679351 - 07/25/08 06:21 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Genotype: The genetic makeup of any given organism (i.e. ATCGTTACA). Phenotype: The physical characteristics which are produced by said genetic makeup.
As I don't have a genetic sequencer, I'll have no idea what the genotype of an isolate is. I have to rely on the phenotype to let me know whether it has what I want. What I was asking wasn't if I could isolate an isolate further by cloning, but rather clone a specific fruit (namely a large, free standing one) from my isolate to get that particular trait.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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roquet
Expat tippler



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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: Alcebiades]
#8679364 - 07/25/08 06:49 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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but if you grow from an isolate, all your fruits will have the same genetics. So if you clone one, it will have exactly the same genetics as your original isolate. Am I missing something?
Obviously not all the fruits from an isolate grow will look identical. Environmental conditions will vary even within the same tray. Like which fruit gets to suck up a particularly nutritious nugget of horse poo, or whatever. But, large or small, all those fruits will have identical genetics.
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seven
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Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1,478
Loc: north carolina
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: roquet]
#8679385 - 07/25/08 07:12 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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if you think about it. when you use agar to acheive an isolate you are also choosing the fastest rhizo growth cuting away from the weak myc until you have a pure strong plate that colonizes fast all togather. you are isolating that growth thus the word isolate... if you clone a fruit to agar it will sector out. more than one substrain. you would then have to transfer i peice from each sector and grow them out to see which has the trait you are looking for.
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seven
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Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1,478
Loc: north carolina
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: seven]
#8679403 - 07/25/08 07:30 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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if anyone is interested most of my knowledge in mycology has came from searching and reading about RR's experiments and findings. i have absorbed great knowledge from the member AGAR . IMO they are both very professional and have contributed to mycology in very large ways. there are others thet have helped me as well .tripsis and Blutjager are both solid sources of knowledge. well thats my recomended reading!!!!!!
-------------------- grind
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roquet
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: seven]
#8679406 - 07/25/08 07:32 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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that's not how I understand cloning to work. I thought a tissue clone results in identical genetics, like an identical twin.
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wisp

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 5,304
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: roquet]
#8679451 - 07/25/08 07:57 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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A single fruit can be composed of several sub-strains, so cloning from a mushroom without going via the route of agar, can still result in several sub-strains.
To end up with a desirable isolate, there are two options. You can start from mutlispore on agar, isolate several desirable looking sub-strains and then fruit each individually to see which is the best. Alternatively, you can start by growing straight from multispore, picking the mushroom with the most desirable phenotype, then clone that to agar to test whether it is composed of more than one sub-strain. If so, wait for it to sector out, isolate and then fruit each one, to test which is the most desirable sub-strain.
Edited by wisp (07/25/08 08:07 AM)
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seven
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Registered: 06/09/08
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Loc: north carolina
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: wisp]
#8679581 - 07/25/08 08:56 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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i guess this would be getting into: does more than one substrain give a mushroom its phisical traits when cloned? i would guess the reason a clone looks the same as the fruit you cloned it from is because it has the same few substrains left over from the (multispore fungus war) as the fruit you cloned it from. seems like the dominate traits will become dominate again in the clone grow. but an isolate is an isolate because you isolate it. this is my understanding i think ultimately you are trying to find a good producing ,fast colonizing substrain. or in cloning select group of substrains . in isolating i think you are trying to find the result of the best performing(mateing pair of hyphae) which is what i understand a strain to be. i would need to research somemore but im pretty sure i am correct. anyone feel free to correct better my understanding.
-------------------- grind
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wisp

Registered: 04/13/08
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: seven]
#8679598 - 07/25/08 09:02 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would think that if you clone a set of substrains, those substrains are not forever locked together, but may separate in subsequent grows, giving numerous fruits of different phenotypes. This is why it is desirable to isolate a single substrain of proven fruiting ability, to give consistent results and flushes. Working with a set of compatible substrains is still allowing for variation and unpredictability.
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seven
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Registered: 06/09/08
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Loc: north carolina
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: wisp]
#8679603 - 07/25/08 09:04 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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correction^ the result of a compatable pair of hyphae is what i understand a substrain to be , not a strain. i need to read more about spore germination . but i think my basic description of cloning, isolation, and substrains are correct.
-------------------- grind
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seven
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Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1,478
Loc: north carolina
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: seven]
#8679653 - 07/25/08 09:17 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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that seems true ... if you want consistantly identical mushrooms, an isolate is the way to go. in cloning it seems possable that a trait in one of the other substrains could become dominate or show itsself. i bet grow variables might play a part in this.
-------------------- grind
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Hattori Hanzo
Are You Experienced?



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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: seven]
#8681238 - 07/25/08 05:33 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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awesome post. This one is getting bookmarked!!
LONG LIVE AGAR!!! RR YOU DA MAN!!! ROBANERO YOU ROCK!!!!! BLUGJAGER IS THE REASON I'M DOING GRAIN!!!!!
   
    
H.H.
BEAUTIFUL FLUSH, Alcebiades!!! 5 Shrooms to you!!!
-------------------- First Grow Log
GT&TX DoubleTubs
Malabars and Hawaiians
Keep your ideals high enough to inspire you and low enough to encourage you. --unknown
 
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letsdothis
Littering and smokin' the reefer



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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: robanero]
#8681286 - 07/25/08 05:45 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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The Mushroom Cultivator written by Stamets and Chilton
Page 153 shows a picture of an entire tray of cubes growing almost at a 45 degree angle towards the light. The caption reads "Characteristic phototropic response of P. cubensis toward light"
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"erotic or not, this is 'mushroom sex'." The Mushroom Cultivator
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roquet
Expat tippler



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seven, tripsis - do you have a scientific source for saying there are more than one substrain in the tissue from a single fruit? Basically you're saying a tissue LC clone isn't actually a clone.
You could clone a albino and if the resulting fruits were not all albino, that would support your argument.
Edit: replaced subspecies with substrain
Edited by roquet (07/25/08 06:38 PM)
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BrandNewbie
Captain



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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: chobumms]
#8681358 - 07/25/08 06:04 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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A cartoon.
The light you might want to use is a GE Energy Smart Cool Natural Light 26 watt Daylight 6500K. PowerOfTheCoir turned me on to this one. It's nice because it uses a standard light socket, therefore you can use it in the standard aluminum dome style drop light fixture.
-------------------- Question: Why do women wear make-up and perfume?
Answer: Because they're ugly and they stink.
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wisp

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 5,304
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: roquet]
#8681397 - 07/25/08 06:14 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
roquet said: seven, tripsis - do you have a scientific source for saying there are more than one subspecies in the tissue from a single fruit? Basically you're saying a tissue LC clone isn't actually a clone.
You could clone a albino and if the resulting fruits were not all albino, that would support your argument.
Neither of us said there is more than one subspecies, we said substrain. No, I don't have any scientific reference to back up that statement. Try cloning tissue from a few fruits to agar yourself and see what happens, I almost guarantee you that at least one of them will sector out into several distinct substrains.
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roquet
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: wisp]
#8681431 - 07/25/08 06:26 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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sorry, I meant substrain. Sadly I don't have agar and petri dishes. My attempts at making my own and pouring it into jars just got lots of mould. I have made LC from tissue successfully.
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wisp

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 5,304
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: roquet]
#8681502 - 07/25/08 06:48 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Oh...well, I can tell you that I've done it before and the tissue has sectored out into several distinct substrains. Making an LC from a clone will still be reducing the number of substrains in a grow but won't necessarily result in a single isolate. Did you find all the fruits fairly identical in subsequent grows from your LC?
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robanero
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: letsdothis]
#8681580 - 07/25/08 07:25 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
letsdothis said: The Mushroom Cultivator written by Stamets and Chilton
Page 153 shows a picture of an entire tray of cubes growing almost at a 45 degree angle towards the light. The caption reads "Characteristic phototropic response of P. cubensis toward light"
And I take that and learn. It is a good day! Thanks for that info. I have been researching and now agree. My understanding of Phototropisms was tainted.
Once again say thanks for the Stamets ref. I do not but need to have The Mushroom Cultivator. It has been years since I have read any part of it.
Roban
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310 open cap Hawaiians grown a 1 pint WBSF cake.
SPAWN RATIO CALCULATOR
My Little Hawaiians
Spawn Bag Tek
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letsdothis
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: robanero]
#8682932 - 07/26/08 03:11 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Not a problem Roban. After all, what good would this site be if we weren't able to better our knowledge!
I've only been growing for about 6 months and I just picked up The Mushroom Cultivator on overstock. It came in a day or two ago and I'm already finished with the 400+ page beast. Although its pretty old (anything older than me I consider 'pretty old' ), still some amazing stuff! I skipped the large chapter about composting after learning all about that in microbiology and plus I don't have the energy, resources or need to do any of that.
Back to phototropism, I do recall reading somewhere here that if you are growing PF style and turn your cakes a quarter turn and keep this up your mushies will grow in a spiral shape. Seems pointless to me...
Last week I had a PB pin grow straight down the cake and actually lift it up to where it eventually fell over. Once the cake fell over the mushy started to grow towards the light and ended up in a very odd shape. I've got pics of it posted for kicks.
And at 4am now I think it is time to fight this insomnia...
"When you have insomnia, you're never really asleep... and you're never really awake."- Fight Club
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"erotic or not, this is 'mushroom sex'." The Mushroom Cultivator
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Alcebiades
Stranger thanMost

Registered: 05/24/08
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Re: First Bulk Grow w/Pics! [Re: letsdothis]
#8701931 - 07/30/08 12:15 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Update: I harvested the first flush a few days ago, and now have them cracker dry. I fanned them for 48 hours and then put them in a sealed jar with desiccant. Dry weight from the two pans was just under 47g. The fruits from the F+ pan were significantly smaller when their veils broke than the B+, I think that in part this was due to the different pinset and using coir as a substrate rather than hpoo.
Thanks yet again for all the comments and input!
Al
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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