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unknown1123
Experimental

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 5,813
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#8669519 - 07/22/08 09:56 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by unknown1123 (03/25/14 02:51 PM)
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: MG PM not such a miracle [Re: unknown1123]
#8669553 - 07/22/08 10:05 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Many brands of potting soil have trichoderma spores added as a beneficial organism, which it is. . .for plants. Potting soil was a common casing material in the 70's and 80's, but with the development of peat/verm based casings in the 90's, potting soil fell from favor. For some reason, those who want an 'out of the bag' solution seem to be trying to promote it once again.
If you do chose to use commercial potting mixes as casing material, proper pasteurization is a must. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
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"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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Ledd
Stranger



Registered: 07/04/08
Posts: 1,200
Loc: Innerspace
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Re: MG PM not such a miracle [Re: RogerRabbit]
#8669580 - 07/22/08 10:11 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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RR, so you advise against Miracle Grow Moisture Control? I have read quite a few threads saying it works great. What makes soil mixes bad, aside from trich treatment?
-------------------- We mean nothing we do not mean to do.
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Krez
RamRod




Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 1,504
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Re: MG PM not such a miracle [Re: Ledd]
#8669675 - 07/22/08 10:39 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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It does work great as long as it is at field capacity and is pasuerized. Just a quick way for someone who doesnt want to make up some 50/50+.
-------------------- Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. (Homer)
Look, the thing about my family is there's five of us. Marge, Bart, Girl Bart, the one who doesn't talk, and the fat guy. How I loathe him. (Drunk Homer)
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unknown1123
Experimental

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 5,813
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Re: MG PM not such a miracle [Re: Krez]
#8669737 - 07/22/08 10:56 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by unknown1123 (03/25/14 02:52 PM)
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wickedsick
<(^.^<)<(^.^)>(>^.^)>



Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 701
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Re: MG PM not such a miracle [Re: unknown1123]
#8669754 - 07/22/08 11:05 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
unknown1123 said: MGPM (Miracle Grow Portting mix) i saw could be used for a casing layer, day 3 was good it was moist and started to see mycel come threw, it was covered with tin foil the whole time. then today when i look at it there are green ting specs everywhere so i dump off the loose layer and pick out the green speckled stuff and hope for the best... hopefully the trich didn't do to much damage
i also tried to remove the trich prob more throughly than you did(very small spots, but it was green).... it came back the next day
Quote:
unknown1123 said: whats a good method of past?
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Casing-Layer-Preparation
-------------------- enjoy your seizure
"Ninja Jar ©"Tek
Mycelium Water TEK
[quote] RogerRabbit said:
You don't need to drill a lot of holes. Some growers choose to fan several times per day instead.
RR [/quote]
Edited by wickedsick (07/22/08 11:07 PM)
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BrandNewbie
Captain



Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 2,932
Loc: U.S.A.
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Re: MG PM not such a miracle [Re: unknown1123]
#8669777 - 07/22/08 11:12 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
unknown1123 said: whats a good method of past?
I used an electric programmable roaster oven. I set it for three hours at 200 deg. Then I keep checking it until my thermometer reaches 145 deg.
I then adjust the temp. on the unit to 145 deg. and re-set the timer for two hours. Then I just wait.
-------------------- Question: Why do women wear make-up and perfume?
Answer: Because they're ugly and they stink.
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PowerOfTheCoir
Newbie Sympathizer



Registered: 07/02/08
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Re: MG PM not such a miracle [Re: BrandNewbie]
#8670296 - 07/23/08 02:17 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Trying to remove sections of trich rarely works. If you want to try it, don't make th mistake of thinking that trich is green. Trich's spores are green, so little while after a trich outbreak begins, you'll spot it by seeing the green nastiness. The actual trich is a brightish white spotted growth. It almost looks like myc, but not quite. When you try to remove it, remove more than just the green spots.
If you have any healthy projects nearby, you should quarantine or destroy the contaminated ones immediately. Even if they are all contaminated, letting them live still has a price. You are increasing the spore-count of your house and making future problems more likely.
-------------------- Check out my first ever TEK!
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fantasy2reality
Growing Anew



Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 198
Loc: Hockeytown,USA
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: MG PM not such a miracle [Re: unknown1123]
#8670610 - 07/23/08 05:15 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
unknown1123 said: MGPM (Miracle Grow Portting mix) i saw could be used for a casing layer, day 3 was good it was moist and started to see mycel come threw, it was covered with tin foil the whole time. then today when i look at it there are green ting specs everywhere so i dump off the loose layer and pick out the green speckled stuff and hope for the best... hopefully the trich didn't do to much damage
I had this happen to me once a while back.... I swear I pasteurized like I always had before with success, and BAM!!! there was shit all over me casing!
I went back to 50/50. much easier, less risk.
-------------------- Can't seem to get a grip on reality!
http://www.growery.org/
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unknown1123
Experimental

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 5,813
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Edited by unknown1123 (03/25/14 02:52 PM)
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ray40cal
omnitrippint



Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 1,308
Loc: midwest side
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Re: MG PM not such a miracle [Re: unknown1123]
#8672791 - 07/23/08 05:10 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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jiffy mix is good for a prepackaged casing. its basicly 50/50 just costs a little more than making it yourself.
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: MG PM not such a miracle [Re: ray40cal]
#8673131 - 07/23/08 06:41 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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I used Miracle grow moisture almost exclusively as my casing layer of choice,always pasteurized,never had a problem with the green,I mean I have had some contamination in the past but none that I can say were caused by the MGMC,that stuff is awesome and in my opinion well worth the price(And the price isn't much to begin with)
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
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Re: MG PM not such a miracle [Re: ray40cal]
#8673178 - 07/23/08 06:52 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club
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unknown1123
Experimental

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 5,813
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Edited by unknown1123 (03/25/14 02:53 PM)
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Ledd
Stranger



Registered: 07/04/08
Posts: 1,200
Loc: Innerspace
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Quote:
ScavengerType said: you sure? http://www.jiffymix.com/
You're joking right?
-------------------- We mean nothing we do not mean to do.
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unknown1123
Experimental

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 5,813
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Edited by unknown1123 (03/25/14 02:53 PM)
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: MG PM not such a miracle [Re: Ledd]
#8673227 - 07/23/08 07:01 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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yes. I was trying to find out if jiffy mix had tric and got sidetracked.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: MG PM not such a miracle [Re: unknown1123]
#8673243 - 07/23/08 07:06 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
unknown1123 said:
Quote:
Blutjager said: I used Miracle grow moisture almost exclusively as my casing layer of choice,always pasteurized,never had a problem with the green,I mean I have had some contamination in the past but none that I can say were caused by the MGMC,that stuff is awesome and in my opinion well worth the price(And the price isn't much to begin with)
What is your method of past and did you take out the bark? do u just use wetted verm and a substrate
I never do anything with verm,I do take out any large sticks or anything like that(Some bags seem to have more than others) than I pasteurize in jars right out of the bag because its easier to apply dry,I know most people bring it to field compacity 1st but I personally like to mist to perfection once its already on and if its wet its allot more clumpy and harder to put on
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unknown1123
Experimental

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 5,813
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Edited by unknown1123 (03/25/14 02:55 PM)
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: MG PM not such a miracle [Re: unknown1123]
#8673410 - 07/23/08 07:46 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
unknown1123 said:
Quote:
Blutjager said:
Quote:
unknown1123 said:
Quote:
Blutjager said:
I never do anything with verm,I do take out any large sticks or anything like that(Some bags seem to have more than others) than I pasteurize in jars right out of the bag because its easier to apply dry,I know most people bring it to field capacity 1st but I personally like to mist to perfection once its already on and if its wet its allot more clumpy and harder to put on
so you just crumble cakes and then put MGMC on it? seems very simple but i used a wet layer of verm underneath my crumbled cakes...
No,not at all.I spawn my grain(Usually rye or wbs) to bulk(Usually coir,but compost or manure are good choices if you have access to them)wait till my trays are 100% and THAN is where the miracle grow comes into play,apply it than,mist to perfection cover for 2 days give or take and than into the greenhouse it goes
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fantasy2reality
Growing Anew



Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 198
Loc: Hockeytown,USA
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: MG PM not such a miracle [Re: Blutjager]
#8675294 - 07/24/08 06:30 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Blutjager said:
No,not at all.I spawn my grain(Usually rye or wbs) to bulk(Usually coir,but compost or manure are good choices if you have access to them)wait till my trays are 100% and THAN is where the miracle grow comes into play,apply it than,mist to perfection cover for 2 days give or take and than into the greenhouse it goes
What is your pasteurizing technique? I've used MGMC in past with success, and pasteurizeing it with success. I'm not sure what happened a few cycles ago, but man I had the trich all over the top of my casing... there was now way to save that baby.
I'm just curious which method you use to pasteurize is all...????
-------------------- Can't seem to get a grip on reality!
http://www.growery.org/
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Quote:
fantasy2reality said:
Quote:
Blutjager said:
No,not at all.I spawn my grain(Usually rye or wbs) to bulk(Usually coir,but compost or manure are good choices if you have access to them)wait till my trays are 100% and THAN is where the miracle grow comes into play,apply it than,mist to perfection cover for 2 days give or take and than into the greenhouse it goes
What is your pasteurizing technique? I've used MGMC in past with success, and pasteurizeing it with success. I'm not sure what happened a few cycles ago, but man I had the trich all over the top of my casing... there was now way to save that baby.
I'm just curious which method you use to pasteurize is all...????
#1 Take out any sticks and jar it up and put on the lids and lid bands
#2 Put in PC and fill with water about 2/3rds a ways up the jars
#3 Put the cover on the pressure cooker but leave the weight OFF
#4 Bring to a boil
#5 Let steam escape from the vent where the weight would be,let boil for 5 min
#6 Shut off heat
#7 Let cool for a half hour
#8 Bring back to a boil again like you just did
#9 Boil again for five more min
#10 Shut off or remove from heat and allow to cool
Your good to go
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fantasy2reality
Growing Anew



Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 198
Loc: Hockeytown,USA
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: MG PM not such a miracle [Re: Blutjager]
#8677202 - 07/24/08 05:20 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thats the same method I use. Simple and hard to screw it up... I'm not sure what went wrong then... maybe just a fluke???
Never really had problems with contams, just that one time... I dunno... guess I'll stick with it then...
I do add oyster shells to the mix... but it all gets pasteurized.... Hmmmm???? but it was only that one time though... I'm stumped. I had zero contams in all 10 of my jars, I had fast 100% colonization like usual.
oh well, who knows, better luck this time around.
-------------------- Can't seem to get a grip on reality!
http://www.growery.org/
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PowerOfTheCoir
Newbie Sympathizer



Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 421
Last seen: 14 years, 24 days
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Removing the wood and pasteurizing helps, but some trich can always hide somewhere in MGMC (and other mixes for that matter). Usually if you have good FAE and other good techniques you'll be fine, but nothings 100% so you have to lose occasionally.
The best way to improve the contamination resistance of pre-made casings is to use some type of lime to bring the PH up to 8 and gypsum to buffer the PH so it stays around 8. Crushed oyster shells will improve the texture but won't break down in time to affect the casing PH. Oyster shell flour will become available in time to affect the PH during the life of the casing, although not instantly. Hydrated lime + Gypsum is a common way to adjust casing PH.
Someone sent me a question via PM about this same topic earlier today. I found this post by RR when I was double-checking my facts:
Quote:
MGMC has wood in it, so many growers get trichoderma if they don't lime to a basic pH. Personally, I wouldn't use a casing layer at all unless I was casing plain grains, or growing a species which requires casing to fruit, which cubensis doesn't.
If you're growing on coir, manure or straw, little is to be gained from a casing layer if you'll manage moisture properly and mist a few times daily. A crumpled up and then flattened piece of wax paper laid over the substrate will hold a high humidity right at the surface and encourage pinning. A casing allows one to be sloppier in technique and still get good results, but as said, it isn't necessary.
Bottom line is whether you use off the shelf potting soil, or peat/verm, lime to an initial pH of 8 to 8.5 and you'll have better resistance to molds. RR (Actual thread is HERE).
-------------------- Check out my first ever TEK!
Shroom capsules with the Cap-M-Quik (pics)
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fantasy2reality
Growing Anew



Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 198
Loc: Hockeytown,USA
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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DAMN, I forgot the lime!!!!!! that was it!!!!! SON OF A B****
-------------------- Can't seem to get a grip on reality!
http://www.growery.org/
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