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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: Ellis Dee]
#864791 - 09/05/02 04:42 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Terrorists generally attack civilian populations and marginal targets with high populations in an effort to induce terror and kill people unrelated to the reason for the attack.
What about the illegal terror bombing of Cambodia and Laos by the US? I think around 2 million innocents died there. You add up every so-called "terrorist" act in the history of humanity and you don't get anything like 2 million dead civilians.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: Phluck]
#864827 - 09/05/02 05:14 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, let's look at the american government:
Funding of terrorists..proven Missle attacks on innocent Afghani's..proven Condoning the murdering of Iraqis, Afghanis, vietnamese, etc...proven American soldiers can easily make more than 25k a year...
Don't forget missile attacks on friendly Canadian soldiers...
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: GabbaDj]
#864858 - 09/05/02 05:28 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well he used an extensive ammount of mustard gas and the nerve agent Tabun on the Kurds back in the 80's.
Have you ever seen a victim of a mustard attack? It's not pretty. Blisters and intense pain start hours, sometimes a full day, after exposure. Blistering lasts months. It takes something around 60 days for mustard burns to heal, and they never do fully heal. Worse are the people who get it in their eyes: blind for life. Bottom of the barrel is the unlucky ones who inhale the fumes and end up with massive vasculatory damage. It takes one teaspoon of liquid mustard gas splashed on the skin to kill a person, and it's a long horrible death over the course of a few days. There is no known antidote to mustard.
Ever seen what happens to a person who receives a lethal dose of a chemical specifically designed to kill? Tabun is considered a non-reversible Cholinesterase Inhibitor, meaning you die a very nasty death as every nerve ending in your body goes into overload. Antidotes for ChE inhibiting agents are few and need to be administered immediately. Even then hours and sometimes days of constant medical support are needed just to keep a person on the verge of life. The ammount of atropine needed in severe cases can cause devastating organ damage. Hospitalization lasts months, and in many cases the victim suffers cardiovascular problems for the rest of their life: which may only be a year or two.
What makes Sadam so bad? He slaughtered thousands of innocents, and horribly scarred many more for life. Yes, innocent victims die in war and they have died by the hands of the US and most other "good" countries. But those countries at least make the attempt at limiting innocent casualties to the bare minimum. That's not perfect, but it's better than gasing entire villages of people who don't even own a military weapon.
I do agree with you on one point I think you are trying to make. The US is now unnessisarily threatening Iraq. For all you Americans...how would you appreciate forieners coming into your country and making surprise "inspections" of anything they want? I know I wouldn't like it.
Until the US is willing to completely dismantle all of their nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons they have no right to tell others to do the same. No right to force others to do the same.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: Ellis Dee]
#864864 - 09/05/02 05:32 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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So were the crew of the Enola Gay terrorists?
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: Phluck]
#864902 - 09/05/02 05:55 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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The term "terrorist" is entirely dependant on what side you are on. I'm sure the Palestinians consider the Israeli to be terrorists, and the Israeli consider the Palestinians to be terrorists.
I'd prefer to limit the use of the word terrorist to an individual or group of individuals who are separate from any nation in their actions. When a nation commits an act of terror it should be called war. A minute difference, I know, but it's the best way to think about it that I've been able to come up with.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: trendal]
#864928 - 09/05/02 06:06 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well he used an extensive ammount of mustard gas and the nerve agent Tabun on the Kurds back in the 80's.
Pity the US sold it to him.
btw, Bush said the photos of Halabja may have been fabricated and defended Saddam to the hilt. The year after he approved a loan to Saddam for a billion dollars.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: Xlea321]
#864968 - 09/05/02 06:25 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hey I'm not saying the US is all good and clean man, they've done far worse in their time than a few thousand. Far, far worse.
Here in Canada there's a news show called The Fifth Estate which is fairly popular as an unbiased program. They somehow got ahold of a tape of a phone conversation between someone in the US govt and Sadam himself just after Iraq took over Kuwait. I can't remember exactly what was said, but it came down to this:
The US got angry at Kuwait for their oil prices. The US quietly asked Sadam if he could do something about it. Sadam took over Kuwait. The US panicked, hid the evidence, then went to kick Sadam's ass.
The conversation was the US official asking Sadam why he took over Kuwait. He said something to the effect of "you asked me to do something about Kuwait, so I did." The US official said he had gone too far and that the US never meant for him to actually take over Kuwait, just to do something about the situation.
From this you could arguably say that the Gulf War would never have happened if it weren't for the US. Sadam may not have tried to take over Kuwait without the US asking him to "do something".
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: trendal]
#865310 - 09/05/02 09:40 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah just before Saddam invaded in July 1990 he had a meeting with the US ambassador for Iraq April Gillespie who assured him that "The US has no interest in Arab-Arab conflicts". This was the green light for the invasion. I imagine he was as surprised as anyone when the US turned on him, especially since he'd been Bush and Reagans best buddy for so long.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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GabbaDj
BTH
Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,682
Loc: By The Lake
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: Xlea321]
#865429 - 09/05/02 11:34 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was watching the other night an interview with Wolf Blitzer and some head of foreign relations for Iraq.
Wolf kept telling him that why not just let the inspections happen? Why not just admidt to what you are doing.
The guy seemed real candid in saying "were not doing anything that the US and other nations arent doing" and "we had weapons inspectors in our country for 7 years and followed the rules yet they reported nothing and the US attacked us anyway despite prommises."
The guy never denied that they are making weapons of mass destruction, he simply said that they were doing the same as all other countries that wish to defend themselvs and he stressed over and over that they did what they were told to do for several years and were betrayed by the US and the UN weapons inspectors and now they simply just dont want any part of it again....
Tell ya the truth, I believe him.
-------------------- GabbaDj FAMM.ORG
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TrOmAn
shroom gladiator
Registered: 06/26/02
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: GabbaDj]
#865634 - 09/05/02 01:36 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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So Gabbadj....if saddam is such a good guy, why dont you pack your shit up and GO live with the peaceful, loving Iraqi Republican Guard?Im sure Saddam would provide you with some pure, touchy-feely middle eastern hospitality.........
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GabbaDj
BTH
Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,682
Loc: By The Lake
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: TrOmAn]
#865725 - 09/05/02 02:23 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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haha... I think of that often... The thing is that I love being an American...
I just dont believe that America needs to start wars like it does, I dont think that we should even be sticking our nose into the middle east at all.. If we were TRUELY the leaders of the free and democratic world then we would lead the world in ways to make things better for all of us in the long run. Things like alternative fuel and feeeding the hungry.
Some day America will face the truth of our own futility. Unfortunatly it will be too late by then...
-------------------- GabbaDj FAMM.ORG
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: TrOmAn]
#866136 - 09/05/02 07:08 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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So Gabbadj....if saddam is such a good guy, why dont you pack your shit up and GO live with the peaceful, loving Iraqi Republican Guard?Im sure Saddam would provide you with some pure, touchy-feely middle eastern hospitality.........
er...because the US are going to go over there and drop a shitload of bombs from 15,000 feet on everyone?
Two american pilots in conversation:
"Dude, i think i just bombed like this wedding party..."
"Bodacious dude..."
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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JonnyOnTheSpot
Sober Surfer
Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 11,527
Loc: North Carolina
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: Xlea321]
#866204 - 09/05/02 08:06 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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get with the times foriegner....when our pilots bomb a wedding party, they say "That was off the fucking chains!!!" you'll never understand our country....
-------------------- Religion is for people who are afraid of going to Hell; spirituality is for those who have been there.
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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"Remember that scene in Scanners when the guy's head explodes?"
"Yeah..."
"I just did that to a five year old Iraqi girl."
"Cool."
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: Xlea321]
#866514 - 09/06/02 04:40 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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****What about the illegal terror bombing of Cambodia and Laos by the US? I think around 2 million innocents died there.****
now you're just making up figures...tell me where you got 2 million people from?...quit using liberal logic
as for your 600,000 Iraqi children killed by us is plain and utter bullshit. Don't blame the regime that steals all medical supplies and food, blame the US..it's easy
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: Innvertigo]
#866517 - 09/06/02 04:46 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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as for your 600,000 Iraqi children killed by us is plain and utter bullshit. Don't blame the regime that steals all medical supplies and food, blame the US..it's easy
Horseshit. According to the UN official in charge of the oil for food programme and UNICEF there is no evidence Iraq are doing any such thing. Both state the US enforced embargo has slaughtered 600,000 kids under 5.
Stick to watching American Gladiators.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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when our pilots bomb a wedding party, they say "That was off the fucking chains!!!" you'll never understand our country....
LMAO
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: Xlea321]
#866522 - 09/06/02 04:48 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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You are naive....
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: Innvertigo]
#866524 - 09/06/02 04:51 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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No, just informed.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Sadam H.. Good or Bad? [Re: Xlea321]
#866528 - 09/06/02 04:54 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Care to tell me where you got that info? (the 2 million killed in laos and the 600,000 from iraq)
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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