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Epigallo
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is anyone really good at doing math in their head?
#8660757 - 07/20/08 09:08 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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i'm pretty slow. - slower than i used to be. it's like the slow, cautious deliberate "checker" in my head doesn't cooperate with the natural flow to a solution. it makes me feel a little dumb sometimes. has anyone ever gotten better at this by any means?
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milkman
DeliveringWorldWide



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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: Epigallo]
#8660769 - 07/20/08 09:11 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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i learned by doing it out on paper like fully then side by side i would set up the same one and make it a bit more simple, seeing how i eliminated some steps then i look at it in my head do that over and over, and you should get it
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Plasmid
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: Epigallo]
#8661147 - 07/20/08 10:54 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Depends on the type of math. Most people really do suck at math. I can calculate my change way faster than cashiers can with cash registers. I can't do too many differential equations in my head though. I have to use a good amount of different math on a daily basis, so I am pretty good at it. It's pretty relative though. I'm not a mathematician.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: Plasmid]
#8661794 - 07/21/08 03:58 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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When I was younger, I was really good at doing math in my head. My teachers beat the skill out of me... obviously, if I didn't show my work, then I didn't know how to work the problem, thus I was somehow cheating...
There are usually tricks to simplify the problem. Take multiplication for example... if you need to multiple 23 by 11... simple, multiple 23 by 10 (which is easy to do in your head) for 230 and add the missing 11th 23 to the previously calculated 230 (also easy to do your head) for a total of 253.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
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Loc: Americas
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: Seuss]
#8661796 - 07/21/08 04:12 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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yeah me too : (
I was always a smart ass, and since I never did my homework, and then would turn in good test scores with "no work" on paper I got marked down and shit.
I always hated that show your work crap... what buffonery.
If its a simple enough problem to do in your head, what kind of a waste is it to write all this shit on paper? Especially when I don't solve it in my head the way they would want me to, which means I'd have to do the problem twice.
That's really why I always hated math. College Calc wasn't too bad though, cuz we didn't have such nonsense there.
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: Epigallo]
#8662138 - 07/21/08 08:27 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yea, I have to say I am very good at doing math in my head. I have tutored undergraduates in mathematics for a few years which has sure helped.
I think I am good at doing it in my head because I am a 'visual' person. Now there are two types of people who say they are 'visual'... There are people who need to see something written down because they cant visualize it. But, I think a visual person is somebody who doesnt need papar and can visualize an equation in their head. Its not an easy skill, but I do math in my head by literally picturing the equation in my head and performing the operations step by step in my head as though writing on paper.
edit - on a unrelated note, yesterday I got a perfect score (800) on a pretest for the quantitative portion of the GRE. Ownage!
Edited by Qubit (07/21/08 08:31 AM)
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Anno
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: Seuss]
#8662246 - 07/21/08 09:06 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: if you need to multiple 23 by 11... simple, multiple 23 by 10 (which is easy to do in your head) for 230 and add the missing 11th 23 to the previously calculated 230 (also easy to do your head) for a total of 253.
There is a nice "trick" to square some higher numbers... let's take 96.
Subtract the difference between 96 and 100 from 96 => 92. Square the difference between 96 and 100 => 16 Add both number stogetherer, whereby you multiply the first number with 100.
The result is 9216.
Or 89: 89-11=78 11^2=121
The result is 7921.
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ToTheSummit
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: Anno]
#8663905 - 07/21/08 04:40 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Anno said:
Quote:
Seuss said: if you need to multiple 23 by 11... simple, multiple 23 by 10 (which is easy to do in your head) for 230 and add the missing 11th 23 to the previously calculated 230 (also easy to do your head) for a total of 253.
There is a nice "trick" to square some higher numbers... let's take 96.
Subtract the difference between 96 and 100 from 96 => 92. Square the difference between 96 and 100 => 16 Add both number stogetherer, whereby you multiply the first number with 100.
The result is 9216.
Or 89: 89-11=78 11^2=121
The result is 7921.
Hey, thats a cool trick Anno. I like learning new ones like that. And I've been doing multiplication in my head the way Seuss described since I can remember. It just seemed normal to me, even as a kid, and I could never understand why other people had such trouble multiplying large numbers in their head. Took a long time before I realized that not everyone was seeing the problem broke up into simple groups.
I was good at math, but hated it. And now I've probably forgotten more then I ever learned. I only use simple arithmetic and some basic geometry in my workplace so everything else is fading away as I get older.
-------------------- You invented the wheel....You push the motherfucker!!
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HighTek
A FunkyPhoenician



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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: ToTheSummit]
#8664002 - 07/21/08 05:13 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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This isn't a math trick but here's a way someone kept their mind sharp: set you watch a few hours/minutes (ex: 2 hrs & 43 mins) off the real time so it takes a bit of calculating to keep your mind sharp.
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daussaulit
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: HighTek]
#8665025 - 07/21/08 09:15 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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When I was younger I did this thing called Kumon. Something that a Japanese instructor had created. Mainly through repitition. You try to get done as quickly and accurately as possible, and if your scores aren't high enough, you repeat it. I was really good at doing algebra in my head, but now I suck because I'm out of practice. Anyways, that Kumon has instructions for like everything, from languages all the way to advanced calculus.
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Anno
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: ToTheSummit]
#8667281 - 07/22/08 11:16 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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>Hey, thats a cool trick Anno. I like learning new ones like that.
One can do this also for other numbers, then you take a different base. For instance 23. In this case you add 3 to 23, multiply by 20 and then add 3^2. The result is 529.
Or with 34: (34+4) x 30 +4^2
You can also do 23 with the base of 30: (23-7) x 30 + 7^2 = 529
If a number ends with 5, you simply take the first digit, multiply with the next higher number, and append 25 to the end: 75^2=7x8 -> 5625
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman



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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: Seuss]
#8668786 - 07/22/08 06:42 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: obviously, if I didn't show my work, then I didn't know how to work the problem, thus I was somehow cheating...
I worked out a deal with all my grade school teachers where if they wanted to brag about the math genious in their class, they damn well better not make me show my work. They knew I wasn't cheating anyways. Made shit a lot easier by taking out the grind.
-------------------- Discuss Politics
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: Ferris]
#8668840 - 07/22/08 06:55 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well, Im a fan of writing out work. For alot of people, the comprehension of complicated math concepts is as cluttered as their work. When they clean up their writing and are more meticulous in their work, understanding comes easier. The act of writing out the logical steps is part of the learning process.
If I am ever a math teacher, I will definitely make them show the work. But if they can do it in their head, they should be in a higher class anyway, right?
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Epigallo
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: DieCommie]
#8668870 - 07/22/08 06:59 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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well, it's always the basic framework that you want to capture on paper; writing all the nitty gritty details can become superfluous. it's probably the habit of pecking at the calculator that really killed it for me
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: DieCommie]
#8668884 - 07/22/08 07:02 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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I once saw a show where these Chinese kids were getting taught how to use a slide rule. They were experts (upon pain of a ruler) and could do math faster with a slide rule than I could with a calculator. Then they showed their star student. He had become so good at using the slide rule he didn't even need it anymore! He would move his hands in the motion of using a slide rule, but with nothing there.
Pretty cool, but I don't think I would want them teaching that to my kid.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman



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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: DieCommie]
#8668888 - 07/22/08 07:03 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: If I am ever a math teacher, I will definitely make them show the work. But if they can do it in their head, they should be in a higher class anyway, right?
I don't see why it is necesarry for those who have instant comprehension. I was flying through a years worth of math in a week at the time, when they would let me. Fucking public education
-------------------- Discuss Politics
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Epigallo
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: DieCommie]
#8668907 - 07/22/08 07:08 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: I once saw a show where these Chinese kids were getting taught how to use a slide rule. They were experts (upon pain of a ruler) and could do math faster with a slide rule than I could with a calculator. Then they showed their star student. He had become so good at using the slide rule he didn't even need it anymore! He would move his hands in the motion of using a slide rule, but with nothing there.
Pretty cool, but I don't think I would want them teaching that to my kid.
i think i have seen that on youtube, or maybe it was on that show. the guy's hands were twitching so fast it looked like he could be having a seizure or spasm.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman



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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: Epigallo]
#8668950 - 07/22/08 07:15 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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If he were really good, he can do the same thing without the hand movements. I have NO idea how a slide rule even works, but I have one stuck between one of my antique textbooks.
-------------------- Discuss Politics
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delta9
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: Epigallo]
#8669243 - 07/22/08 08:37 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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As already pointed out by Suess and Anno, doing math in your head quickly comes down to decomposing the problem into smaller problems easier for our brains to work out quickly. A few more common sense tips can be found here and reposted for all Shroomery Time (sorry they are not that great):
Quote:
- Round Off to a Quick Approximation
First determine a level of accuracy you are happy with, then round the numbers appropriately before making the calculation. This is also useful to determine a quick ballpark figure before doing the actual calculation.
- Break Up Into Parts
Say you have to multiply 613 by three. Try multiplying first 600 by 3, then 10 by 3 then 3 by 3 and adding the results.
- Omit Words
When calculating in your head, think of the results rather than saying out the words. For example to compute 30/2, just think 15 instead of thirty divided by two equals fifiteen.
- Quickly Find Three Common Percentages
20% -> Divide the number by 5 33.3% -> Divide the number by 3 50% -> Divide the number by 2
- Finding Percentages by Using 100’s
The percentage of a hundred is the percentage number itself. For example, 15% of 100 is 15. Use this, combined with the Break Up Into Parts method.
-------------------- delta9
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Montgomery26
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: Epigallo]
#8675904 - 07/24/08 11:06 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've always been pretty good, luckily. Have liked math since I was a kid.
There's a free humorous math newsletter whose current issue is about the metric system and shows the math of converting between English and metric. This issue doesn't deal specifically with math 'in your head' (though previous ones have) but it makes conversion easy.
It also tells you how to find the volume of a bicycle.
Check it out at http://www.gnarlymath.com/news/gnews1_1.html
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Minstrel
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: Montgomery26]
#8688675 - 07/27/08 03:03 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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I can almost instantly determine the formula weight of any organic compound if the formula is written as CxNy and so forth, so long as it doesn't contain atoms other than carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, chlorine or nitrogen.
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: Minstrel]
#8688779 - 07/27/08 03:31 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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To how many sig figs?
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kotik
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: DieCommie]
#8700963 - 07/30/08 05:14 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm surprised I'm the first one to mention Vedic math, otherwise known as "magic" math.
Vedic math is based on 16 principles (sutras). It still uses math, but there are lots of shortcuts.
For example, multiple any number by 9, and the digits of the solution will also add up to 9 (or a multiple of 9).
e.g. 5x9 = 45. 4+5=9. and: 73x9 = 657. 6+5+7 = 18. (and 1+8=9)
So instead of actually doing the traditional concept of math in your head, it's a bit different; more like translating a language I guess. Some people confuse it with numerology, which it is not.
There's another method for adding times very easily, not sure which sutra it is (or if it has its sutra).
basically when adding times, say 1:27 and 5:44, you have to convert the times to seconds, or at least do some mental math to deal with the 60/100 denominator difference... however there is a "magic time" number with a constant value of 40 that takes that entire step out. Instead of converting the time, you just bunch the numbers together, add, and then add 40. Hard to explain, easy to illustrate:
instead of this process: 1:27 = (1x60)+27 = 60+27 = 87 5:44 = (5x60)+44 = 300+44 = 344 87 + 344 = 431 431/60 = 7 r11 7:11
you do this: 1:27 = 127 5:44 = 544 127 + 544 = 671 671 + 40 = 711 711 = 7:11
admittedly, each of those have 5 steps... but clearly the second version was much easier. 3 steps involved removing or adding a colon, with only 2 actual steps with very simple addition. This would be at most a 2-step mental process.
The typical (western) method can be done mentally as well, but it takes a bit longer, since you have to do a variety of mental calculations.
The sutras get into complex math, such as square roots, cubic roots, long division, etc. It's not limited to simple equations by any means.
Just some very small examples of vedic math opposed to western math. I firmly believe that if I was taught both methods in school, I would have ended up keeping an active interest in math, instead of having it beaten out of me with long, boring equations. I'll stop before a rant ensues.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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delta9
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: kotik]
#8701068 - 07/30/08 06:52 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
kotik said: I'm surprised I'm the first one to mention Vedic math, otherwise known as "magic" math.
Vedic math is based on 16 principles (sutras). It still uses math, but there are lots of shortcuts.
For example, multiple any number by 9, and the digits of the solution will also add up to 9 (or a multiple of 9).
e.g. 5x9 = 45. 4+5=9. and: 73x9 = 657. 6+5+7 = 18. (and 1+8=9)
How does this help you multiply faster?
The easiest way in base 10 to multiply N by 9 more quickly is to multiply N by 10 and then subtract N. The same goes for multiplying N by 11 only you add N at the end.
-------------------- delta9
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: Epigallo]
#8703754 - 07/30/08 06:29 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Pssh... doing math in your head is overrated. It's all about seeing how many digits of pi you can memorize instead.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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delta9
Active Ingredient


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Re: is anyone really good at doing math in their head? [Re: deCypher]
#8705682 - 07/31/08 01:24 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406286208998628034825342117067982148086513282306647093844609550582231725359408128481117450284102701938521105559644622948954930381964428810975665933446128475648233786783165271201909145648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273724587006606315588174881520920962829254091715364367892590360011330530548820466521384146951941511609433057270365759591953092186117381932611793105118548074462379962749567351885752724891227938183011949129833673362440656643086021394946395224737190702179860943702770539217176293176752384674818467669405132000568127145263560827785771342757789609173637178721468440901224953430146549585371050792279689258923542019956112129021960864034418159813629774771309960518707211349999998372978049951059731732816096318595024459455346908302642522308253344685035261931188171010003137838752886587533208381420617177669147303598253490428755468731159562863882353787593751957781857780532171226806613001927876611195909216420198938095257201065485863278865936153381827968230301952035301852968995773622599413891249721775283479131515574857242454150695950829533116861727855889075098381754637464939319255060400927701671139009848824012858361603563707660104710181942955596198946767837449448255379774726847104047534646208046684259069491293313677028989152104752162056966024058038150193511253382430035587640247496473263914199272604269922796782354781636009341721641219924586315030286182974555706749838505494588586926995690927210797509302955321165344987202755960236480665499119881834797753566369807426542527862551818417574672890977772793800081647060016145249192173217214772350141441973568548161361157352552133475741849468438523323907394143334547762416862518983569485562099219222184272550254256887671790494601653466804988627232791786085784383827967976681454100953883786360950680064225125205117392984896084128488626945604241965285022210661186306744278622039194945047123713786960956364371917287467764657573962413890865832645995813390478027590099465764078951269468398352595709825822620522489407726719478268482601476990902640136394437455305068203496252451749399651431429809190659250937221696461515709858387410597885959772975498930161753928468138268683868942774155991855925245953959431049972524680845987273644695848653836736222626099124608051243884390451244136549762780797715691435997700129616089441694868555848406353422072225828488648158456028506016842739452267467678895252138522549954666727823986456596116354886230577456498035593634568174324112515076069479451096596094025228879710893145669136867228748940560101503308617928680920874760917824938589009714909675985261365549781893129784821682998948722658804857564014270477555132379641451523746234364542858444795265867821051141354735739523113427166102135969536231442952484937187110145765403590279934403742007310578539062198387447808478489683321445713868751943506430218453191048481005370614680674919278191197939952061419663428754440643745123718192179998391015919561814675142691239748940907186494231961567945208095146550225231603881930142093762137855956638937787083039069792077346722182562599661501421503068038447734549202605414665925201497442850732518666002132434088190710486331734649651453905796268561005508106658796998163574736384052571459102897064140110971206280439039759515677157700420337869936007230558763176359421873125147120532928191826186125867321579198414848829164470609575270695722091756711672291098169091528017350671274858322287183520935396572512108357915136988209144421006751033467110314126711136990865851639831501970165151168517143765761835155650884909989859982387345528331635507647918535893226185489632132933089857064204675259070915481416549859461637180270981994309924488957571282890592323326097299712084433573265489382391193259746366730583604142813883032038249037589852437441702913276561809377344403070746921120191302033038019762110110044929321516084244485963766983895228684783123552658213144957685726243344189303968642624341077322697802807318915441101044682325271620105265227211166039666557309254711055785376346682065310989652691862056476931257058635662018558100729360659876486117910453348850346113657686753249441668039626579787718556084552965412665408530614344431858676975145661406800700237877659134401712749470420562230538994561314071127000407854733269939081454664645880797270826683063432858785698305235808933065757406795457163775254202114955761581400250126228594130216471550979259230990796547376125517656751357517829666454779174501129961489030463994713296210734043751895735961458901938971311179042978285647503203198691514028708085990480109412147221317947647772622414254854540332157185306142288137585043063321751829798662237172159160771669254748738986654949450114654062843366393790039769265672146385306736096571209180763832716641627488880078692560290228472104031721186082041900042296617119637792133757511495950156604963186294726547364252308177036751590673502350728354056704038674351362222477158915049530984448933309634087807693259939780541934144737744184263129860809988868741326047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