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Offlinechrisnh
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casing not looking too good
    #8656762 - 07/19/08 09:27 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

it's been 6/7 days since this was put into the FC . the myc underneath looks good, but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot going on up top. it's in a monotub  with the humidity staying in the mid 90s. temp from 75-81(can't help that part), plenty of light and i don't think FAE  is a problem since there is 8 1inch holes covered with micropore tape and a fan moving air around the general area throughout the day(plus an occasional hand fanning). don't even see knots forming yet. is there something wrong or just lacking patience? thanks











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InvisibleKrez
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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: chrisnh]
    #8656781 - 07/19/08 09:32 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Monotubs are meant for bulk  not casings.  Also those casings look really dry.  have you been misting them?


--------------------
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Offlinechrisnh
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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: Krez]
    #8656791 - 07/19/08 09:36 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

just misted after the pic, haven't really been because the RH has been high.  put it in a monotub because it heard it's best to not have RH too high with a casing, and the shotgun was keeping it too high. would it be better off back in the shotgun? thanks

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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: chrisnh]
    #8656808 - 07/19/08 09:41 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------
Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.  (Homer)

Look, the thing about my family is there's five of us. Marge, Bart, Girl Bart, the one who doesn't talk, and the fat guy. How I loathe him. (Drunk Homer)

All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I fuck like you wanna fuck, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not. (Tyler Durden)

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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: Krez]
    #8656835 - 07/19/08 09:51 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

it looks ok give another week before you worry


--------------------
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[quote]RogerRabbit said:
You don't need to drill a lot of holes.  Some growers choose to fan several times per day instead.
RR [/quote]

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Offlinechrisnh
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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: wickedsick]
    #8656842 - 07/19/08 09:54 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

wickedsick said:
it looks ok give another week before you worry




too late about the worrying, but i guess i can give it another week before i start crying :smile:

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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: chrisnh]
    #8656870 - 07/19/08 10:04 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

yea bro just keep normal fc conditions and fan then mist 4-7 times a day(pull the mist trigger 1-3 times per misting) it should pin any time now. good luck.


--------------------
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Mycelium Water TEK


[quote]RogerRabbit said:
You don't need to drill a lot of holes.  Some growers choose to fan several times per day instead.
RR [/quote]

Edited by wickedsick (07/19/08 10:18 PM)

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Offlinerobanero
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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: wickedsick]
    #8656915 - 07/19/08 10:17 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Did you dunk that sub? It look like one of mine that was not hydrated before casing. I think your sub is dry.


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Offlinechrisnh
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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: robanero]
    #8656949 - 07/19/08 10:27 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

no, i heard it was best to only dunk after the first flush when doing a casing. the sub was broken up mycobags. little over 2 quarts worth

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Offlinerobanero
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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: chrisnh]
    #8657048 - 07/19/08 11:11 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Read this and decide if for yourself if dunking before you case a sub is what you should do.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8541785#Post8541785

RR knows his shit. He dose not give bad advice.


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Offlinechrisnh
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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: robanero]
    #8657075 - 07/19/08 11:17 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

so dunking before the casing layer is put on is a good idea. how about now? the casing layer is already on and has been for  a week. if in another week nothing happens, could the loose verm be removed and the sub dunked then recased? thanks

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OfflineHazeyRoms
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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: chrisnh]
    #8657111 - 07/19/08 11:37 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

-First off, when you do a casing... You need to let the mecylium reincubate all over again until the top casing is covered completly white in growth. The humidity should be around 95+RH if you want it to go by quickly & if you are doing any casing really.


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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: robanero]
    #8657113 - 07/19/08 11:37 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I'm thinking about just adding water to the tray and letting it sit for a few hours and then dump out what ever water is left in the tray.


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Offlinechrisnh
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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: HazeyRoms]
    #8657129 - 07/19/08 11:43 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

HazeyRoms said:
-First off, when you do a casing... You need to let the mecylium reincubate all over again until the top casing is covered completly white in growth. The humidity should be around 95+RH if you want it to go by quickly & if you are doing any casing really.




the casing was incubated fora  few days until it was somewhat colonized...this is what it looked like.


was under the impression that it was best to put it in the FC then and not wait for it to 100% colonize. 


Quote:

I'm thinking about just adding water to the tray and letting it sit for a few hours and then dump out what ever water is left in the tray.




that may be a good idea in a couple days if things don't look better. thanks :smile:

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OfflinePowerOfTheCoir
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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: chrisnh]
    #8657933 - 07/20/08 07:40 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

chrisnh said:
Quote:

HazeyRoms said:
-First off, when you do a casing... You need to let the mecylium reincubate all over again until the top casing is covered completly white in growth. The humidity should be around 95+RH if you want it to go by quickly & if you are doing any casing really.




the casing was incubated fora  few days until it was somewhat colonized...this is what it looked like.


was under the impression that it was best to put it in the FC then and not wait for it to 100% colonize. 





You're right, Hazey is wrong. 100% colonization of the casing layer can lead to overlay and at the very least, it defeats the purpose of having a casing layer. The great debate now is whether it's best to even give the casing layer a few days covered to colonize or to just put it in fruiting conditions immediately.

You don't have overlay, but in the close-ups, it does look like you've got mycellium present pretty much throughout the verm casing. Aside from a few very thin sections on the top, there's no loose casing material. This is causing a problem for you. Since uncolonized casing isn't covering your substrate and taking care of the evaporation to maintain the FC's humidity, your colonized verm (actually part of your substrate now) is taking water out of the substrate and letting it evaporate away. This is drying out your substrate. You also are not getting the necessary very high humidity pinning micro-climate that a layer of uncolonized casing would provide.

You said that your RH is in the 90's. How do you know this? If you have a hygrometer, are you 100% confident in it? Often the more affordable ones do a poor job in the higher humidity ranges.

Based on your description of your set-up, I strongly suspect that your humidity is not as high as you think it is. If it is being maintained, it is at the expense of massive moisture loss from the substrates. You actually do not have a mono-tub - your FC is more akin to a perlite terrarium with no perlite. Monotubs have bulk substrate, usually cased, filling the entire bottom of the tub itself. This allows the large mass of substrate and wall-to-wall casing layer to provide the necessary humidity for the tub. With a few small trays in yours, you have far less casing area and substrate mass to support the amount of evaporation needed to keep up with the RH in that tub. Furthermore, with vermiculite there will be no visual cue that your casings need misting either.

Recommendations:

I've got a recommendation that no one else has mentioned yet. We know that you don't have a true monotub and you're probably having problems related to humidity. Put 5 inches of wet perlite in the bottom of that tub and lay your trays on top of it. That will bring your humidity way up and take the burden off your trays. Put some holes in the tub under the perlite for some of the benefits of a shotgun FC. Putting trays like yours on perlite is a common practice and gives the casings the high humidity that they thrive in.

Next, put that water around the edges now. Leave it in for a few hours to overnight. Just be sure to pour it all out afterwards. Those substrates are screaming for water and low water content is the easiest way to ensure lousy fruiting. You can even repeat this a few days later. Remember, mushrooms are used to growing and fruiting during the time of year when they get flooded almost daily. As long as they get drained and can breathe afterwards, they'll appreciate the water.

Finally, (I know I say this on just about every post) lay a sheet of wrinkled wax paper over each tray. With the near total colonization of your verm casing layer, you essentially have an uncased substrate. It needs something else to maintain near 100% RH right at the surface in order to begin pinning. The wax paper wil trap humidity but not interfere with FAE. It's easy and safe to try, but it can make a huge improvement in the pinning zone micro-climate.

You should mist several times a day, but do it extremely lightly and fan off any excess moisture before replacing the wax paper. The exposed mycellium where the verm has totally colonized is prone to matting down from exposure to built up water. Again, mist them, but be careful and fan before putting the wax paper back.


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Offlinechrisnh
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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: PowerOfTheCoir]
    #8658127 - 07/20/08 09:23 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

wow, thanks for all the info. i had actually just put it back in a shotgun that had perlite in it before reading your post. so that takes care of that part. i'll be putting water in the tray today and pouring it out when i get home about 12 hours later and trying the wax paper. i actually have a sheet prepared already from a few days ago when i read someone recommend it to someone else, must have been you. lol. the concern i have is that the top of the casing layer looks hard, not loose and fluffy like it should be, or at least i think it should be. would it help/hurt to take a sterilized fork and try to fluff it up a little, or maybe adding a very thin layer of fresh casing? thanks again for all the help

oh ya, as for the humidty, yes i'm sure it's that high, i have 2 cheapo hydrometers, but they've been calibrated, and they both say mid to high 90s. not to mention when it was still in the "monotub" a small puddle had formed on the bottom of it from water dripping off the sides, but like you said, i suspect that came the the sub evaporating.

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OfflinePowerOfTheCoir
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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: chrisnh]
    #8658158 - 07/20/08 09:32 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

The fork idea you have is called "deep scratching." I'd hold off on that - it's a last resort when you have overlay that has matted down and formed a layer of dead cells that seals the substrate.

Adding more verm casing would cover up any contaminant spores that have landed over the last week and give them a nice place to grow. For now, stick to the wax paper. As long as the top of your casing isn't dead, it should do nicely under the wax paper. The wax technique was designed for uncased subs - so your semi-cased sub should be fine under it.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: chrisnh]
    #8658189 - 07/20/08 09:38 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

chrisnh said:
haven't really been because the RH has been high.  put it in a monotub because it heard it's best to not have RH too high with a casing, and the shotgun was keeping it too high.




Every time I hear someone say keep the humidity lower with cased substrates I want to friggen scream!  99% humidity and lots of air exchange are the two main pinning triggers, and there is NO reason to use a lower humidity simply because you put a casing layer on.

In addition, micropore tape and/or polyfill will allow gas exchange.  However, AIR exchange is the number 1 pinning trigger.  Either remove the tape from the holes, or put your trays in another fruiting chamber.  Give bright white light, plenty of fresh air, regular misting, and you should see pins soon.
RR


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Offlinechrisnh
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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: PowerOfTheCoir]
    #8658190 - 07/20/08 09:38 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

ok thanks. pouring water in now :smile:

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Offlinechrisnh
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Re: casing not looking too good [Re: chrisnh]
    #8658329 - 07/20/08 10:32 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

PowerOfTheCoir, do you use the wax paper as a general practice or just to "fix" things?  do you leave it on and let the pins push it up? thanks

just took another look under the cake. i think i should get this out of the fc and put it in a patch outdoors. the black and especially the green spots worry me.









Edited by chrisnh (07/29/08 11:07 PM)

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