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Anonymous

Re: highly experimental
    #86532 - 06/27/00 03:15 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I have had bad results with pressure cooking water crystals. They turn into a rubbery, jelly like substance that is almost impossible to colonize. they also don't seem to excrete water in this form. Also, jars which I have sterilized with crystals in them have turned a rust color near the crystals. I wouldn't suggest crystals in your substrate.


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Anonymous

Re: highly experimental
    #86534 - 06/27/00 03:24 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

good info. I'll try making up a batch and just using the crystals in the casing layer.
thanks Zazu


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Anonymous

Re: highly experimental
    #86536 - 06/28/00 01:10 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

well MOE, I can see some possible reasons for wanting to sterilize it. One is that nearly every tek (and there arent many) Ive read using manure for a substrate reccomends
sterilizing it. Ryche Hawk recommends it. And I personally this being my first time using the shit, felt ID just follow along. But I happened to have made up 2 batches, one is NOT sterilized so well see what happens. ON a side note, I took Zazus advice and made up a batch with water crystals only in the casing layer. The crystals were made from a solution of about .1% peroxide water. I decided not to let the mycelium rest before casing sinc these were fully colonized cakes. I also made up 2 more batches to be innoculated with liquid mycelium innoculant, I'll see how that goes as well.

------------------
"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed"

-Albert Einstein



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Anonymous

Re: highly experimental
    #86537 - 07/03/00 07:02 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

well its been 5 full days since I started. Mycelium is rocketing up throught the casing layer and it looks real rhizomrphic and ropey. Also looks kinda jagged like ice crystals. the mycelium seems to be exploding where it touches the h20 crystals. Im going to let it take over the casing before I start giving it light and lower the temp. Any suggestions would be helpful but it looks like the tek is awinner. And there seems to be no difference so far between the sterilized and unsterilized manure bathces. Out of 6 trays, none are showing contamination.


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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: highly experimental
    #86538 - 07/03/00 07:33 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

*in Joe Pesci voice* "ok, ok, ok, ok, ok,"

These are those polyacrylamide crystals, right? SoilMoist, etc? I was all excited about using those in my casing layer but it seemed to stunt all growth. My basil transplants also stunted when I added these crystals. Hydrated, mine were about 1/2 cubic centimeter. What's the deal? I spent a shitload on the things, was ready to sell for negative one dollar.



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Offlineaural
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Re: highly experimental
    #86539 - 07/03/00 09:23 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

WTF Moe??!!
I don't want to sound like sean,but you should read TMC.Manure is used for its nutrients,NOT for any bacteria it may contain,which just as likely to be contaminants.
Aren't you a moderator?
Why would you give out bogus info in your own forum?!


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: highly experimental
    #86540 - 07/04/00 12:47 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Spawn, I don't know how experienced you are, but it sounds like you are aiming for overlay. You do know that you shouldn't let the entire surface of a casing colonize, right? That's overlay and it is bad. Read the casing teks to make sure that's not where you're headed. If you need more help, ask more questions.

------------------
-From a registered Mad Scientist

"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obiwan Kenobi (also a Mad Scientist tm)

VisitThe Donkey!-just behave



--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Anonymous

Re: highly experimental
    #86541 - 07/04/00 02:19 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

quote:
Originally posted by aural:
WTF Moe??!!
Manure is used for its nutrients,NOT for any bacteria it may contain,which just as likely to be contaminants.
Aren't you a moderator?
Why would you give out bogus info in your own forum?!

Where do people get such ideas?

Moe is correct. There are many growth and fruiting stimulating bacteria that symbiotically grow with and enhance both button mushrooms and cubensis. Any sterilization is to be avoided, at most pasteurization.

The American Type Collection houses quite a few strains of beneficatial growth/fruting potentiators and as Stamets points out they are easy to multiply and the proper ratios for induction into bulk substrates are provided.



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Anonymous

Re: highly experimental
    #86542 - 07/04/00 09:00 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

well its day 6 and the casing layer is about
a quarter colonized. No contamination yet. I have opened up the lids to check out the progress once a day,, I figures this is sufficient in terms of air xchange, b/c i think the acrylic h2o crystals release some o2 from teh little bit of peroxide I added to them. I really dont think they are stunting growth Suntzu, but then again i dont have a control batch without them. If you want to sell me any left over crystals you have, that would be great as there next to impossible to get in Delaware.
Mycofile, I am not very experienced with the new strains. This is the first time
I have attempted casing my spawn. Of course, I do not want to see them covered with overlay. I was planning on deep scratching and then casing with another fresh layer once I get nearly total colonization. then I was going to let them recover 2 days and place them in the terrarium wih light, ultrasonic mist, and some ice paks to initiate pinning. However none of the casing teks I read indicate when it is the best time to do this. I am using the hawks cambodian strain, btw. I have not had luck producing any sizable fruits or even initiating pinning on uncased cakes. The terrarium I used with the PF amazonian strain to produce huge flushes on bare cakes has not done well with the cambodians, even though I let the jars pin in vitro for a week and a half before birthing them. So I turned to manure and casing tray to try and save the cakes before they were completly dried out and old looking. I certainly would welcome any teachings from the elders in this matter.

spawn

------------------
"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed"

-Albert Einstein



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Anonymous

Re: highly experimental
    #86543 - 07/04/00 09:28 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)


Learner said:

"The American Type Collection houses quite a few strains of beneficatial growth/fruting potentiators and as Stamets points out they are easy to multiply and the proper ratios for induction into bulk substrates are provided."

well i checked out their products page but dont know which biomaterials you are talking about. Could you be a little more specific?
http://www.atcc.org/l2.cfm?Lexp2=2&Lexp3=1&B=2



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Anonymous

Re: highly experimental
    #86544 - 07/05/00 07:00 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

quote:
Originally posted by spawn:

well i checked out their products page but dont know which biomaterials you are talking about. Could you be a little more specific?

I'll get a lot more free time this weekend and will post it then. You should be able to look up some of the work and strains in the back of TMC in or near the Contaminants section [probably in an appendix]. The work in the commercial sector has occured in either the 60's or 70's, I forget off the top of my head right now.

To clear up all aspects of sterilization vs pastuerization,

If you want to just use the substrate as a food source or have a sterile casing, you can get by with sterilization, no problem.

If you want in addition to having a food source to also having beneficial microbes that enhance the growth and fruiting of certain mushrooms such as cubensis, then pastuerization is at most what you want to do. Stamets even has a few topics on casing management such as high initial CO2 rates and temp zones during casing runs to increase beneficial microbes in the first few days of casing.

Another observation. In sterilized / sterile environments, natural ecosystems are destroyed and replaced with mono-culture. Interesting observation is normally contamination outbreaks occur or do so in massive rates.

In natural ecosystems a natural system of checks and balances keeps most contamination outbreaks from either occuring or occuring at high rates. For the fruiting stage its ok to be in a natural system. Cubensis' grow and have evolved for an incredibly long time in a rather filthy natural habitat.

Shit, its a good thing...
Martha Stuart
Queen of shrooms

[This message has been edited by The Learner (edited July 05, 2000).]



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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: highly experimental
    #86545 - 07/06/00 11:10 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

On the fourth, you said the casing was a quarter colonized. Does that mean that you can see mycelium on a quarter of the surface area? If so, you are pushing it. I'd say deep scratch immediately. Cover with a very thin casing layer (1/4 in). Give it two days to recover, and then induce pinning as you plan to.

One note, the ultrasonic may be helpful while the ice packs are in there as they will lower humidity. But after cold shocking, they may likely be overkill. During pin initiation, high humidity is ok. But as soon as you see the tiniest pins, 85% humidity is your mark. Higher will lead to more likely contamination. Also, with casings, the more air exchanges the better. A bubbler coupled with twice daily fanning wouldn't be near overkill.

Good luck with the casing, and keep your questions posted as you go. Hopefully things will work out perfectly.

------------------
-From a registered Mad Scientist

"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obiwan Kenobi (also a Mad Scientist tm)

VisitThe Donkey!-just behave



--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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OfflineFried Brains
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Registered: 12/22/98
Posts: 83
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: highly experimental
    #86546 - 07/07/00 02:17 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

The Learner, nice to hear you talk, a man after my owm heart, I believe in letting nature do most of the work. Your input was valuable to me, thanks.


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Offlinebrainnoise
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Registered: 05/24/00
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Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: highly experimental
    #86547 - 08/06/00 01:43 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

So.. after all of this time... do we ever find out if the tek worked? spawn.. let us know...

------------------
To see the light is not enough.. brainnoise



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Anonymous

Re: highly experimental
    #86548 - 08/07/00 04:34 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for reviving this topic. Inquiring minds want to know. How did it turn out?

I would also like to cast my vote for pasteurization over sterilization. I have had sterilized casings go foul under pristine conditions and pasteurized casings that survived a months worth of storage in plastic bags in the garage.

------------------
"Not all drugs are good... some are great."



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