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"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed"

-Albert Einstein

These are those polyacrylamide crystals, right? SoilMoist, etc? I was all excited about using those in my casing layer but it seemed to stunt all growth. My basil transplants also stunted when I added these crystals. Hydrated, mine were about 1/2 cubic centimeter. What's the deal? I spent a shitload on the things, was ready to sell for negative one dollar.

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-From a registered Mad Scientist

"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obiwan Kenobi (also a Mad Scientist tm)

VisitThe Donkey!-just behave

quote:

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Originally posted by aural:
WTF Moe??!!
Manure is used for its nutrients,NOT for any bacteria it may contain,which just as likely to be contaminants.
Aren't you a moderator?
Why would you give out bogus info in your own forum?!

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Where do people get such ideas?

Moe is correct. There are many growth and fruiting stimulating bacteria that symbiotically grow with and enhance both button mushrooms and cubensis. Any sterilization is to be avoided, at most pasteurization.

The American Type Collection houses quite a few strains of beneficatial growth/fruting potentiators and as Stamets points out they are easy to multiply and the proper ratios for induction into bulk substrates are provided.

spawn

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"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed"

-Albert Einstein

"The American Type Collection houses quite a few strains of beneficatial growth/fruting potentiators and as Stamets points out they are easy to multiply and the proper ratios for induction into bulk substrates are provided."

well i checked out their products page but dont know which biomaterials you are talking about. Could you be a little more specific?
http://www.atcc.org/l2.cfm?Lexp2=2&Lexp3=1&B=2

quote:

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Originally posted by spawn:

well i checked out their products page but dont know which biomaterials you are talking about. Could you be a little more specific?

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I'll get a lot more free time this weekend and will post it then. You should be able to look up some of the work and strains in the back of TMC in or near the Contaminants section [probably in an appendix]. The work in the commercial sector has occured in either the 60's or 70's, I forget off the top of my head right now.

To clear up all aspects of sterilization vs pastuerization,

If you want to just use the substrate as a food source or have a sterile casing, you can get by with sterilization, no problem.

If you want in addition to having a food source to also having beneficial microbes that enhance the growth and fruiting of certain mushrooms such as cubensis, then pastuerization is at most what you want to do. Stamets even has a few topics on casing management such as high initial CO2 rates and temp zones during casing runs to increase beneficial microbes in the first few days of casing.

Another observation. In sterilized / sterile environments, natural ecosystems are destroyed and replaced with mono-culture. Interesting observation is normally contamination outbreaks occur or do so in massive rates.

In natural ecosystems a natural system of checks and balances keeps most contamination outbreaks from either occuring or occuring at high rates. For the fruiting stage its ok to be in a natural system. Cubensis' grow and have evolved for an incredibly long time in a rather filthy natural habitat.

Shit, its a good thing...
Martha Stuart
Queen of shrooms

[This message has been edited by The Learner (edited July 05, 2000).]

One note, the ultrasonic may be helpful while the ice packs are in there as they will lower humidity. But after cold shocking, they may likely be overkill. During pin initiation, high humidity is ok. But as soon as you see the tiniest pins, 85% humidity is your mark. Higher will lead to more likely contamination. Also, with casings, the more air exchanges the better. A bubbler coupled with twice daily fanning wouldn't be near overkill.

Good luck with the casing, and keep your questions posted as you go. Hopefully things will work out perfectly.

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-From a registered Mad Scientist

"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obiwan Kenobi (also a Mad Scientist tm)

VisitThe Donkey!-just behave

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To see the light is not enough.. brainnoise

I would also like to cast my vote for pasteurization over sterilization. I have had sterilized casings go foul under pristine conditions and pasteurized casings that survived a months worth of storage in plastic bags in the garage.

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"Not all drugs are good... some are great."