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OfflineLethal Dose
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Afterlife/Eternity/Some other bullshit
    #8642714 - 07/16/08 01:42 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I've been working through this thought for a while now, and I wanted to see other people's opinions on it, as my ideas on the subject are still a work in progress.

The majority of major religions believe in some sort of afterlife that lasts for all of eternity. That being said, these religions (let's just say Christianity for the sake of argument) also then must believe that time extends infinitely into the future (either physically or spiritually).

Why then, if time extends infinitely into the future, doesn't it extend infinitely into the past? Why are there theories of creation or the "beginning of the universe?"

I am of the opinion that there is no begininning or end to the universe. If time is infinite, it should extend both forward and backward, at least in my eyes.

Thoughts?


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On the scale of wibble to wobble...

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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: Afterlife/Eternity/Some other bullshit [Re: Lethal Dose]
    #8644121 - 07/16/08 06:50 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

We are part of a physically finite universe.  Therefore, it appears as though there is a limite of all time, but that is only through are perspective that is confined to this finite universe.  But, this universe exists within a much more vast and complex multi-verse that must be infinite or else we would not be, and energy could be created or destroyed.  And it can't.


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Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...

Edited by Ginseng1 (07/16/08 06:54 PM)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Afterlife/Eternity/Some other bullshit [Re: Lethal Dose]
    #8644456 - 07/16/08 08:32 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

You are utterly confused. Infinity and Eternity have nothing to do with extension or duration. Space-time, according to Jewish mystical theology, emerges from God when God contracts omnidirectionally the Infinite Density, creating a vacuole or bubble - a Singularity, which is to say a point - zero dimension. It is called Tzim Tzum. Within this Singularity, like a seed, are the blue-prints for all form, from quarks to human DNA. The Big Bang was recorded  as: "... God said, 'Let There Be Light!'"  A myth to describe metaphysics, which gave rise to physics.

Time does not exist without space. As soon as energy radiated omnidirectionally, zero dimension gave rise to 'line segments' (remember geometry?) of energy. An omnidirectional expansion described a rapidly growing sphere of energy, the edge of which is our curvature of the universe. Zero dimension has no extension, therefore no space and if no space, then no time. God is like an infinite 'amoeba' in this view, with the universe an expanding vacuole in the infinite density of God's Being. Whether entropy causes the universe to stop and contract, or whether time will run backwards if that occurs, or whether there is an 'oscillating universe' which explodes forth and contracts back to Singularity forever (Myth of the Eternal Return), only the myths speculate. Cool.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (07/17/08 12:51 PM)

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OfflineLethal Dose
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Re: Afterlife/Eternity/Some other bullshit [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8645030 - 07/16/08 10:49 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

NOW im confused... haha


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Offlinedill705
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Re: Afterlife/Eternity/Some other bullshit [Re: Lethal Dose]
    #8645337 - 07/17/08 12:08 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting topic, I am intrigued :strokebeard:


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Registered: 05/07/08
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Re: Afterlife/Eternity/Some other bullshit [Re: Lethal Dose]
    #8645578 - 07/17/08 01:53 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

If the universe had a beginning, and we consider time as being part of existence, then how can we possibly comprehend something happening before time began? It just makes no sense.  Time can't have a beginning because that beginning would have to happen on...a timeline.

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
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Re: Afterlife/Eternity/Some other bullshit [Re: Lethal Dose]
    #8645606 - 07/17/08 02:18 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I don't think time is infinite, it's more like oscillating thread of big-bangs and crunches that produces something like a musical note.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Afterlife/Eternity/Some other bullshit [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #8645615 - 07/17/08 02:28 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
If the universe had a beginning, and we consider time as being part of existence, then how can we possibly comprehend something happening before time began? It just makes no sense.  Time can't have a beginning because that beginning would have to happen on...a timeline.




Not based on how Markos is explaining it. If I understand him right, he is saying that space needs to be created for soemthing like time to exist. Time is just a measurment of distance between two points.

If the begining was a one dimensional singularity, time could've have existed until the energy within the singularity imploded into at least 2 dimensions.

Do I have you correct Markos?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Afterlife/Eternity/Some other bullshit [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8646970 - 07/17/08 01:14 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

You got it Jiggy! The only difference is that a Singularity has ZERO dimensionality. A line or a ray has 1-dimension. The line or ray moving perpendicular to the direction in which it is moving from its point of origin defines a plane, which is 2-dimensional. A plane of 2-dimensions which moves perpendicular to its planer surface defines a cube of 3-dimensions. Then, theoretically, a cube unfolding to a 4th spacial dimension defines a tesseract.

Tesseract

Far be it for me to pretend skills in higher mathematics, but here I imagine the image of a dimensionless point, suddenly emanating lines of incomprehensible energy.  A point of light  appears out of seeming nothingness (ex nihilo!), but which really emanates from zero dimension. The 'ends' of each of the unidirectional rays are 'mathematical points' which describe the inside of a rapidly expanding sphere of energy - the expanding universe. Extension from the Singularity denotes 'space' and duration from the instant of emanation denotes 'time.' The sphere of space-time does not expand INTO space, but creates the space-time bubble within the Infinite Being of God. Even the Time Lord Dr. Who doesn't penetrate this membrane! :smile:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineLethal Dose
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Re: Afterlife/Eternity/Some other bullshit [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8647127 - 07/17/08 01:47 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Really interesting thoughts, Markos. Obviously you've read into this a lot more than I have haha, so I look forward to further explanation.

I'm having trouble comprehending the singularity though. Are you saying the single point expands in all directions, thus making a sphere of energy? If so, why is it said that such a point could contain all the "blueprints" of the universe? Isn't it more plausible that all the energy, all the vibrations, and all the forces we know to exist weren't "created," they simply are. This would make time just a human illusion?


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On the scale of wibble to wobble...

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Offlinedill705
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Re: Afterlife/Eternity/Some other bullshit [Re: Lethal Dose]
    #8647609 - 07/17/08 03:37 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

If we're gonna get into time, I think this link is pretty cool.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/time/

Check out McTaggert's argument. I think it's the most fascinating. I did a presentation on it last semester.


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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OfflineLethal Dose
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Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 364
Loc: Santa Cruz, CA
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Re: Afterlife/Eternity/Some other bullshit [Re: dill705]
    #8648543 - 07/17/08 08:21 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

AWESOME ^^^

thank you


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On the scale of wibble to wobble...

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Offlinedill705
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Registered: 12/10/07
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Re: Afterlife/Eternity/Some other bullshit [Re: Lethal Dose]
    #8648835 - 07/17/08 09:23 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

That whole site is full of great stuff.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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