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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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electric vehicle discussion
    #8647188 - 07/17/08 02:02 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Personally I would say we should move to Electric Vehicles, such as those manufactured at Tesla Motors, which is proof positive that purely electric Vehicles can compete and exceed Internal Combustion Units on many Platforms(and eventually all platforms if development/research continues)




so what do we do with the acid spills in accidents, a few banks
of batteries leaching into the soil, after the car is scrapped,
seeping into the waters under ground or into rivers, storm
drains, etc... when will people realize that electric vehicles
are no better than the current polluters more dangerous in fact



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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: T. Boone Pickens - Independent Candidate [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8647234 - 07/17/08 02:18 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Not all vehicles utilize lead acid(edit here NiMH/NiCH aswell) my friend, do enough research into Tesla Motors design you will realize that there is no such problem with there type of Lithium Batteries.

Its actually safe costs less than 2 cents per mile, 100% Torque at 0 RPM, Utilizes far less energy than Gasoline to get far more output.

I agree that many vehicles utilize dangerous batteries, but they are utilizing outdated tech in order to keep people from recognizing the benefits of electric cars not produced by Automobile manufacturers that take orders from Oil Execs.


Edited by Mr.Al (07/17/08 02:45 PM)


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: T. Boone Pickens - Independent Candidate [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8647291 - 07/17/08 02:31 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I need to add that the Li-Ion batteries used have had a history of Combustion(3000F) in many cases but the people at Tesla motors have demonstrated that with the proper tech even that can be done away with.

-----------------

I should add that the batteries are also recyclable.


Edited by Mr.Al (07/17/08 02:50 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: T. Boone Pickens - Independent Candidate [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8647387 - 07/17/08 02:54 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
there is no such problem with there type of Lithium Batteries.




Li-ion (Lithium-Ion)
I like how they're stuffing it in every orifice, first, the car is costly, new tech costly, part of the reason, so they can remanufacture your old batteries and sell them to you again at the price of new ones, here's an instance where recycling costs you more in the long run because you're paying their expenses


Quote:

Recycling
Keeping an Eye on Tomorrow, Today

It probably comes as no surprise that a forward-thinking company like Tesla Motors thinks a lot about the future. We do.

That‘s why the tires and the battery of every Tesla Motors vehicle are recyclable. Reuse is such a key part of our philosophy that we‘ve already arranged to have our car batteries safely recycled — even before we‘ve sold our first car. The cost of recycling is built into the purchase price of the car, so there‘s never a reason “why not” to recycle.




what's to stop me from just dumping them when they're spent,
they charged me a recycling fee as part of the purchase price,
then you're charge me again for new batteries and that's
probably with the extra fees hidden in the cost to encourage you
to recycle some more.... lol


Quote:

Depending on the choice of material for the anode, cathode, and electrolyte the voltage, capacity, life, and safety of a lithium ion battery can change dramatically.

A unique drawback of the Li-ion battery is that its life span is dependent upon aging from time of manufacturing (shelf life) regardless of whether it was charged, and not just on the number of charge/discharge cycles. So an older battery will not last as long as a new battery due solely to its age, unlike other batteries. This drawback is not widely published.




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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: T. Boone Pickens - Independent Candidate [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8647396 - 07/17/08 02:57 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
I need to add that the Li-Ion batteries used have had a history of Combustion(3000F) in many cases but the people at Tesla motors have demonstrated that with the proper tech even that can be done away with.




lithiated metal phosphate cathodes, they're safer but store less energy by bout 75%, they also have a shorter life span


Quote:

I should add that the batteries are also recyclable.




I've already adressed how they sell you a good fucking on the recycling


__________________________

and let me add, Lithium batteries by design have a feature that prevents them from discharging comlpetely, this extends their life, and allows them to be recharged... now read this
and let me know how lithium disolved in water is going to help the environment when the issue arises

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1214472




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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: T. Boone Pickens - Independent Candidate [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8647450 - 07/17/08 03:06 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

T Boone has enough money that if he's into it he can start a whole new technology all by his lonesome.  Let him put his cash up if he's so hot for something.  That is, after all, the American Way.  If he's right, he and his backers will get rich.  If he's wrong they will suck hind tit.  No guts no glory.


--------------------


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: T. Boone Pickens - Independent Candidate [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8647544 - 07/17/08 03:26 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Mr.Al said:
there is no such problem with there type of Lithium Batteries.




Li-ion (Lithium-Ion)
I like how they're stuffing it in every orifice, first, the car is costly, new tech costly, part of the reason, so they can remanufacture your old batteries and sell them to you again at the price of new ones, here's an instance where recycling costs you more in the long run because you're paying their expenses

They aren't the ones rebuilding them, and recycled products are just as good, we are not talking refurbishment


Quote:

Recycling
Keeping an Eye on Tomorrow, Today

It probably comes as no surprise that a forward-thinking company like Tesla Motors thinks a lot about the future. We do.

That‘s why the tires and the battery of every Tesla Motors vehicle are recyclable. Reuse is such a key part of our philosophy that we‘ve already arranged to have our car batteries safely recycled — even before we‘ve sold our first car. The cost of recycling is built into the purchase price of the car, so there‘s never a reason “why not” to recycle.




what's to stop me from just dumping them when they're spent,
they charged me a recycling fee as part of the purchase price,
then you're charge me again for new batteries and that's
probably with the extra fees hidden in the cost to encourage you
to recycle some more.... lol

Because its the right thing to do, and I want the young ones to have a world thats not full of trash

Quote:

Depending on the choice of material for the anode, cathode, and electrolyte the voltage, capacity, life, and safety of a lithium ion battery can change dramatically.

A unique drawback of the Li-ion battery is that its life span is dependent upon aging from time of manufacturing (shelf life) regardless of whether it was charged, and not just on the number of charge/discharge cycles. So an older battery will not last as long as a new battery due solely to its age, unlike other batteries. This drawback is not widely published.







I don't know if we are talking about the same thing but newer Li-Ion batteries don't suffer from Memory Problems
the topic on aging is true after 5 years there is are problems with charge/discharge cycles, but this will be addressed(most likely free of charge) by the company when alternatives are found


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: T. Boone Pickens - Independent Candidate [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8647583 - 07/17/08 03:33 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
T Boone has enough money that if he's into it he can start a whole new technology all by his lonesome.  Let him put his cash up if he's so hot for something.  That is, after all, the American Way.  If he's right, he and his backers will get rich.  If he's wrong they will suck hind tit.  No guts no glory.




I agree but I think that's the way it should always be handled
regardless of the 'contestant' wanting to hump into the
political arena, dont send my money to various companies with
billions of their own to have the develop new technology
regardless of how it may save the world.


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: T. Boone Pickens - Independent Candidate [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8647589 - 07/17/08 03:33 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Mr.Al said:
I need to add that the Li-Ion batteries used have had a history of Combustion(3000F) in many cases but the people at Tesla motors have demonstrated that with the proper tech even that can be done away with.




lithiated metal phosphate cathodes, they're safer but store less energy by bout 75%, they also have a shorter life span

This makes little sense to me as this vehicle has a 200+ mile range per charge
The life span thing yep thats true, but this is a neccesary change and people that invest in experimental technologies are basically agreeing to invest in the future


Quote:

I should add that the batteries are also recyclable.




I've already adressed how they sell you a good fucking on the recycling

and in reply I addressed that yes, because our children and their children don't need to grow up in a garbage dump


__________________________

and let me add, Lithium batteries by design have a feature that prevents them from discharging comlpetely, this extends their life, and allows them to be recharged... now read this
and let me know how lithium disolved in water is going to help the environment when the issue arises

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1214472







I don't have an answer for this yet but I am about to do some questioning to certain individuals and see if Telsa Motors has taken this into account(I believe the casing around the battery may have done just that but not sure


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: T. Boone Pickens - Independent Candidate [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8647646 - 07/17/08 03:42 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
I don't know if we are talking about the same thing but newer Li-Ion batteries don't suffer from Memory Problems




we're almost on the same page, they dont have a memory for
charging but they have a dead zone, if they drop below a certain
voltage it'll take much longer for them to charge, and that's a
forever for that battery,  so now instead of an 8hr charge time
it'll take 3 days to get a full charge... if they go completely
dead, it' more likely they'll never take a charge again, but
they also have a life expectancy, not from the time of initial
charge like most batteries, but from the date of manufacture,
once they're assembled, the clock is ticking, in 3-5 years
you'll be replacing it

no if you have a bank of 10 batteries that cost $700 each, every
5 years (less if you have an electrical fault) you'll be
shelling out $7000 plus the labor, plus the recycling fee that
they charge you hidden in the cost of the battery, so maybe the
$700 is closer to $10k, now they refurb the batteries and sell
them to the next schmuck that has the same dead battery issue

better hope yours were not sitting on a shelf for the last year

are you spotting their scam yet


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: T. Boone Pickens - Independent Candidate [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8647720 - 07/17/08 03:57 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I just made a phone call to the company, and got someone who sounded like a stereotypical blonde....

Got the run around, but was told that she would have someone call me concerning my questions.

You may be correct in your statements

I still am an advocate of electrically powered vehicles, but agree that there are needed advances.

Mainly I am for innovative technology,
While gasoline may be the only option for the masses in current times, the simple fact is we need to get past internal combustion(unless hydrogen is made more available which may be the case even now)
other options such as Plasma Gasification must be explored.

But until I get a phone call from them I have to admit it sounded sheisty(I asked for the Techs e-mail and was told it was not allowed).

I am also a proponent of so-called impossible energy solutions. I have seen over unity in action, and as we speak am doing my best to discover the exception to Gravity(I have even collected viable experimental data showing Anti-Gravity) which in my opinion is the best options as it would allow massive off-grid energy and Automotive independance


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Invisibledaytripper05
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Re: T. Boone Pickens - Independent Candidate [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8647756 - 07/17/08 04:02 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

My thread has gone from genuinely wanting to know opinion about Pickens but now, I am indulge in a "Are electric cars better than combustion engine debate."  :smirk:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: T. Boone Pickens - Independent Candidate [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8647757 - 07/17/08 04:02 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
I believe the casing around the battery may have done just that but not sure




high speed accidents happen, especially with a 'sports car'
there's no way to take everything into account with a wreck


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: T. Boone Pickens - Independent Candidate [Re: daytripper05]
    #8647769 - 07/17/08 04:04 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper05 said:
My thread has gone from genuinely wanting to know opinion about Pickens but now, I am indulge in a "Are electric cars better than combustion engine debate."  :smirk:




sorry...



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: T. Boone Pickens - Independent Candidate [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8647892 - 07/17/08 04:29 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Got the run around, but was told that she would have someone call me concerning my questions.




I've been trying for three months to get an answer regarding the
difference between a heavy duty and standard duty backhoe bucket
large company plenty of people but never a singe call back
except to tell me what I already know, the standard duty is a
piece of shit that's incapable of doing what needs t be done



Quote:

I still am an advocate of electrically powered vehicles, but agree that there are needed advances.




consider green, that's the objective, even if we switch from
fossil fuels for and move to hydro/wind/nuclear for charging the
batteries, we still have the disposal issues after the batteries
are beyond recycling as well as the dependance upon the power
companies unless you decide to build your own means of generation

Quote:

Mainly I am for innovative technology,




compressed air isnt innovative? there's not bulky expensive
batteries to replace, no hazardous wastes and the only exhaust
is air, clean breathable air

Quote:

the simple fact is we need to get past internal combustion(unless hydrogen is made more available which may be the case even now)
other options such as Plasma Gasification must be explored.




plasma gasification...
Relatively high voltage, high current electricity is passed between two electrodes, spaced apart, creating an electrical arc. Inert gas under pressure is passed through the arc into a sealed container of waste material

wow, that's some expensive technology, I ran a plasma table at a
metalfab shop, it was used, cost $125k, it required no inert
gas, just a toxic coolant, air, electricity, compressed air if
you wanted to cut instead of just burn metal... seems that
extracting nitrogen or argon as well as the high voltage would
pose more of a problem, you'd need a power plant to power a
power plant

think compressed air, 115volts instead of 460v 3 phase stepped
up to 400kv to make the plasma arc, a little cheap air
compressor that'll run a short time and you're done for a few
days... watch the video


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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: T. Boone Pickens - Independent Candidate [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8648023 - 07/17/08 05:05 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

they are nearing completion of a plasma arc gasification plant here at my counties landfill, supposed to be able to incinerate several tons of garbage daily, the waste is going to be used to replace asphalt, it is supposed to power 20,000 homes(or something close to that) and they claim that by 2015 they will have reduced the entire dump back to its original state(well minus all of the ground pollution)

:awesome:

http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2007-03/prophet-garbage


--------------------


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: T. Boone Pickens - Independent Candidate [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #8648038 - 07/17/08 05:09 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

they already pave the roads with trash all over the world





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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: T. Boone Pickens - Independent Candidate [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8648065 - 07/17/08 05:20 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
they already pave the roads with trash all over the world








:rofl2:


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