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Murit
The kid withkaleidoscopeeyes



Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 121
Loc: The Colorful Nether
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Sterility of inner walls of FCs?
#5822062 - 07/05/06 12:12 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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My question is this...the walls of what I intend to be using for a FC is pretty dirty, and obviously will need to be cleaned, but exactly how clean does it need to be?
Do the walls need to be sterilzed with alcohol before I put in my colonized cakes? or simply cleaned with soap and water?
Also, I have a Diagram of my FC here. Any suggestions and comments would be appreciated
-------------------- "Halucinogens produce severe and violent reactions.. ..in those who have never tried them." - Terence McKenna
Edited by Murit (07/05/06 12:14 AM)
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Sterility of inner walls of FCs? [Re: Murit]
#5822107 - 07/05/06 12:27 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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as clean as you can get it, but soap and water is good enough. your FC is not a sterile environment. it can't be in practicality, it won't be, and doesn't need to be. cleanliness is the best you can do and all you need to do.
a suggestion that quickly comes to mind on your design is the heater. you don't want your FC at 86F. incubation is optimal around those temperatures, but you want to fruit in the low to mid 70s - that temperature difference between your incubation environment and your fruiting environment is one of the factors that encourages pin development. use the heater only if your ambient temp is considerably below 70, otherwise you're good.
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ComfortablyStond
Mr. Lizard


Registered: 03/15/06
Posts: 239
Loc: Psychedelphia, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
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Re: Sterility of inner walls of FCs? [Re: creamcorn]
#5822164 - 07/05/06 12:43 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I agree with cc...I'm assuming you're using your bucket and aqruarium heater for your incubation chamber, which is an awsome tek, but it should be in a separate location from your fruiting chamber for one basic reason...myc colonize much faster in total darkness, it's less confusing to them, and your fruiting chamber needs light to induce pinning on colonized cakes. Other than that, awsome set up, man!
-------------------- "It's not a war on drugs. It's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times..." Bill Hicks
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Murit
The kid withkaleidoscopeeyes



Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 121
Loc: The Colorful Nether
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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the fruiting chamber and incubation chambers are going to be the same, but the lights in the FC will be turned off, and now that I know the difference in incubation and fruiting temps, I'll keep them in there at 86 for the incubation, leaving the USH off untill I flip the cakes out, dunk, and case. After that I'll simply remove the heater and turn on the USH.
Once again gents, thanks for the input.
-------------------- "Halucinogens produce severe and violent reactions.. ..in those who have never tried them." - Terence McKenna
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Sterility of inner walls of FCs? [Re: Murit]
#5822210 - 07/05/06 12:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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well a little more input...
you certainly can do it the way you describe. but the fact that you speak of "rows of 12 cakes" makes it sound like you plan on doing lots of cakes. i promise you, every cake is going to move at a slightly different rate. some are going to colonize quicker than others. some will fruit longer than others. even if you start a dozen or two all on the same day, by the time they're spent they can be as much as a week or two apart. you'll be much better off to spring the extra few bucks and get some rubbermaids, and make your incubator a traditional tub-in-tub style with that heater and have two separate units. this way you can put cakes in your FC as they're ready, and you can start incubating more while the first batch are fruiting so you have both stages going on at once. if you've got a crunch for space or are worried about stealth... you certainly can stick with your idea, but i think you'll find it to be limiting.
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Murit
The kid withkaleidoscopeeyes



Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 121
Loc: The Colorful Nether
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Sterility of inner walls of FCs? [Re: Murit]
#5822281 - 07/05/06 01:15 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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awesome. Thanks guys.
-------------------- "Halucinogens produce severe and violent reactions.. ..in those who have never tried them." - Terence McKenna
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malarki
Master Jack ofAll Trades,Realist


Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 200
Loc: Ashittown, USA
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Re: Sterility of inner walls of FCs? [Re: Murit]
#5822335 - 07/05/06 01:34 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I agree w/ them. The fruiting chamber is beneficial to have in a separate area. The rubber maid containers work out great for incubation and they fit in the bottom of your closet. You can even get a cordless temp sensor for it and your FC to keep an eye on humidity and temp :-)
As far as your FC goes I am slightly confused as to why you have cakes drawn and say you are going to make casings?
An USH is a great idea b/c of cleanliness but I strongly advise against having it inside your chamber (moisture causes electronic items to break) they create so much humidity so fast that you will actually start to get water droplets to form. In the fruiting cycle water droplets are not good. You do not want water to be dripping down. I use a cool mist attached to tubing that curves (to collect humidity). If it is outside your chamber it also allows gas exchange You may want to consider that. Remember your FC should not be so humid that you see condensation on the walls.
Great idea with the perlite on the bottom even if you are doing casings.. just be careful you do not develop standing water in the bottom b/c then you create a breeding ground for mold (warm and humid).
It looks like you have done a lot of research. Your idea is a lot better than my first ones were! Way to get advice also. It's always best to use everyone else's knowledge to learn from.
-------------------- ~*~I'm also an educated guesser, and knowledge seeker If I haven't done it, I know someone who has. IF I don't know, I know someone who does! I am a realist so deal with it, if you don't like it you can choose to not read it!
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FungusMan
I81U812



Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 3,112
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Sterility of inner walls of FCs? [Re: malarki]
#5822413 - 07/05/06 02:03 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Murit
The kid withkaleidoscopeeyes



Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 121
Loc: The Colorful Nether
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Sterility of inner walls of FCs? [Re: malarki]
#5822418 - 07/05/06 02:04 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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One quick question about putting perlite in the bottom of the FC.
Will the perlite need to be replaced at some point? or is it good to go for as long as I feel like fruiting new cakes (or whatever substrate I opt to go with for my next run)?
oh yeah...and just a little side note...
-------------------- "Halucinogens produce severe and violent reactions.. ..in those who have never tried them." - Terence McKenna
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malarki
Master Jack ofAll Trades,Realist


Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 200
Loc: Ashittown, USA
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Re: Sterility of inner walls of FCs? [Re: Murit]
#5822452 - 07/05/06 02:17 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nice comic.
No you don't have to change your perlite unless you get contams. If you start having standing water you will get contam's and your caps will start to rot. If the perlite gets to wet you can just pull it out and let it dry out. If you are laying cakes on perlite in the bottom don't let the water get deep enough to touch your cakes. You shouldn't see water, the perlite should be able to hold all the water. This is what helps keep the humidity constant.
If you are doing casings the container's can sit on top of it. Generally you would not need perlite on the bottom of your FC. It is a good idea though b/c if you have a USH its possible to over humidify and the perlite will prevent standing water (preventing mold). I personally still have standing water in my FC even though I shouldn't. Have you thought about what you are going to do your casings with?
-------------------- ~*~I'm also an educated guesser, and knowledge seeker If I haven't done it, I know someone who has. IF I don't know, I know someone who does! I am a realist so deal with it, if you don't like it you can choose to not read it!
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Murit
The kid withkaleidoscopeeyes



Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 121
Loc: The Colorful Nether
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Sterility of inner walls of FCs? [Re: malarki]
#5822471 - 07/05/06 02:26 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Figured I'd just use the same fine verm that I used for the cakes...still have plenty left over from making the substrate and that way it would require no more material cost.
Though to hear you say it, it would seem that doing a casing would be unimportant if I'm using perlite...but from what I've read using a wet verm casing will increase pinning due to the moisture's contact with the cake...did I understand that correctly?
glad ya like it. I took the pic from an old comic at www.plif.com and just added the caption myself.
-------------------- "Halucinogens produce severe and violent reactions.. ..in those who have never tried them." - Terence McKenna
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FungusMan
I81U812



Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 3,112
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Sterility of inner walls of FCs? [Re: Murit]
#5822534 - 07/05/06 03:11 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nice GIF, LMAO.
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Felinor
PhilosophicalDreamer


Registered: 03/02/08
Posts: 680
Loc: Down Town China Town
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Quote:
ComfortablyStond said: I agree with cc...I'm assuming you're using your bucket and aqruarium heater for your incubation chamber, which is an awsome tek, but it should be in a separate location from your fruiting chamber for one basic reason...myc colonize much faster in total darkness, it's less confusing to them, and your fruiting chamber needs light to induce pinning on colonized cakes. Other than that, awsome set up, man!
you sure about that? Ive read a post by RR saying that darkness/lighting does not matter during incubation. I understand that light is a pinning trigger but i dont see how that would actually slow the myc growth.
-------------------- The world itself is the will to power - and nothing else! And you yourself are the will to power - and nothing else! ~Friedrich Nietzsche
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BrandNewbie
Captain



Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 2,932
Loc: U.S.A.
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Sterility of inner walls of FCs? [Re: Felinor]
#8602727 - 07/06/08 11:53 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Felinor said:
Quote:
ComfortablyStond said: I agree with cc...I'm assuming you're using your bucket and aqruarium heater for your incubation chamber, which is an awsome tek, but it should be in a separate location from your fruiting chamber for one basic reason...myc colonize much faster in total darkness, it's less confusing to them, and your fruiting chamber needs light to induce pinning on colonized cakes. Other than that, awsome set up, man!
you sure about that? Ive read a post by RR saying that darkness/lighting does not matter during incubation. I understand that light is a pinning trigger but i dont see how that would actually slow the myc growth.
I actually heard, (read) from RR today, that he successfully colonizes jars just sitting on a shelf, in a room that gets filled with fluorescent light for twelve hours a day.
-------------------- Question: Why do women wear make-up and perfume? Answer: Because they're ugly and they stink.
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Oatman2000
-=Outa Space=-




Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2,877
Loc: Planetary Nebula
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Sterility of inner walls of FCs? [Re: BrandNewbie]
#8603274 - 07/07/08 06:59 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
BrandNewbie said:
Quote:
Felinor said:
Quote:
ComfortablyStond said: I agree with cc...I'm assuming you're using your bucket and aqruarium heater for your incubation chamber, which is an awsome tek, but it should be in a separate location from your fruiting chamber for one basic reason...myc colonize much faster in total darkness, it's less confusing to them, and your fruiting chamber needs light to induce pinning on colonized cakes. Other than that, awsome set up, man!
you sure about that? Ive read a post by RR saying that darkness/lighting does not matter during incubation. I understand that light is a pinning trigger but i dont see how that would actually slow the myc growth.
I actually heard, (read) from RR today, that he successfully colonizes jars just sitting on a shelf, in a room that gets filled with fluorescent light for twelve hours a day.
i do the same. my whole room stays at 77F with a heater. jars sit on a shelf till they are spawned. cakes are a little different. they pin easier inside the jar. where grain jars will still colonize w/o pinning.
--------------------
Spawning to COIR
My Chocolate Recipe
WBS QUART SPAWN JAR PREPERATION ----------------------------
4-PO-DMT; 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethltryptamine
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PowerOfTheCoir
Newbie Sympathizer



Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 421
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Sterility of inner walls of FCs? [Re: Oatman2000]
#8604119 - 07/07/08 01:00 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Running out of nutritious substrate to colonize, a reduction in C02 and an increase in O2, and a drop in temperatures (to the low 70s, not cold shocking) are all much bigger pinning triggers than light. Maybe less so with the temps, but the substrate running out and FAE are what will really determine when you'll pin.
Be careful with the 86 degree incubation. 86 degrees is the optimal temperature for growth on agar. Agar is kept in a thin layer in a thin walled dish, so the temp at the center of the agar is probably about the same as the temp of the air in the room. With jars, the center often warms up several degrees higher than the air temperature. A lot of very successful growers just let their jars colonize at room temperature and they have great results.
The blue LED might not be necessary. Mushrooms do react better to bright light at the higher end of the spectrum, but I'd be nervous about the LED either having sub-optimal brightness or being in the wrong part of the spectrum. "Daylight" spectrum CFL's which are found in most stores are getting very popular since they put out a bunch of the right light and are pretty efficient.
Malarki's right about the USH concerns. Those things put out a lot of humidity and, if not on a timer, it can over-saturate the air and create condensation on everything, including it's electronic components. If this container isn't huge, the perlite may be enough. Perlite does a great job of humdification as long as you have a thick layer of wet perlite with no standing water (it will stay wet for months).
If you want to sterilize perlite, either due to contams or just to be safe during a big cleaning, you can safely bake it in the oven. It handles high temps without a problem and can then be rehydrated and used again.
Rolling the cakes in vermiculite can't hurt and will probably help. It creates a little extra humidity right where the pins form and it also can help cakes trap water from mistings and absorb the water into the cake itself. You were probably already planning on doing this, but you'll get better results by dunking the cakes as well.
-------------------- Check out my first ever TEK! Shroom capsules with the Cap-M-Quik (pics)
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