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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Obama throws his get-out-of-Iraq-now agenda under the bus.
#8587573 - 07/02/08 12:00 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democrat Barack Obama's presidential campaign is signalling more flexibility on his pledge to quickly pull U.S. troops out of Iraq if elected as part of a move toward the political centre.
Obama's emerging shift of nuance on Iraq, the signature issue that helped him defeat Democrat rival Hillary Clinton to win his party's presidential nomination, comes as he prepares to make his first trip to Iraq.
The Illinois senator has repeatedly pledged to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq, one brigade every month until all are out in 16 months. Last September he argued, "the best way to protect our security and to pressure Iraq's leaders to resolve their civil war is to immediately begin to remove our combat troops."
Aides say Obama is still committed to the 16-month goal but they appear to be leaving him wiggle room now that the U.S. troop surge is credited with bringing some stability there.
" we have to be as careful getting out as George Bush was careless getting in. So he will redeploy our forces responsibly, at a rate that our commanders say is safe and sustainable."
Letting commanders have a say in the pace of withdrawal is new language from the Obama campaign.
Anthony Lake, who was Democratic President Bill Clinton's national security adviser and now a senior Obama foreign policy adviser, told the Financial Times Obama would maintain a "residual force for clearly defined missions" in Iraq.
Republicans call it politically expedient flip-flopping -- now that he has won his party's nomination and will face Republican John McCain in the November 4 election.
LIBERALS TAKE NOTICE
The liberal left that helped propel Obama to the nomination is taking notice.
"I can unequivocally say: the Obama campaign is making a very serious mistake," said Ariana Huffington, writing on the liberal Huffington Post blog. "Tacking to the centre is a losing strategy."
"It is common sense that we could not leave Vietnam successfully unless we left behind a government in Saigon that could govern successfully,"
http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKN0129673720080702?pageNumber=4&virtualBrandChannel=0
"Mr. Obama has promised a residual presence for clearly defined missions”. These would include military training, and “preparedness to go back in if there are specific acts of violence”.
Obama: Oh Yeah, About That Withdrawal -- Just Kidding
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Obama throws his get-out-of-Iraq-now agenda under the bus. [Re: lonestar2004]
#8587600 - 07/02/08 12:07 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: Obama throws his get-out-of-Iraq-now agenda under the bus. [Re: lonestar2004]
#8587760 - 07/02/08 01:02 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, the best possible use of McCain's campaign money would be to play that clip -- completely unaltered -- as often as possible on as many TV channels as possible between now and the election.
Phred
--------------------
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Obama throws his get-out-of-Iraq-now agenda under the bus. [Re: Phred]
#8587777 - 07/02/08 01:08 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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"I'm John McCain and I approve of this message"
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Obama throws his get-out-of-Iraq-now agenda under the bus. [Re: Phred]
#8588130 - 07/02/08 03:08 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said: I've said it before and I'll say it again, the best possible use of McCain's campaign money would be to play that clip -- completely unaltered -- as often as possible on as many TV channels as possible between now and the election.
Phred
Agreed.
For anyone who's voting democratic to get us out of iraq, this is further proof of the illusory differences between the parties on any issue of relevance. Perhaps we can debate about abortion or gays, there's a real difference (I'm presuming McCain has backed away from his respectable state's rights position on gay marriage given his new found nomination? I expect him too anyway, logic, law, and principle don't seem to mix with ambition in this country.)
This should be another wake up call to democrats who think the democratic party is somehow different than the things they don't like about the republicans, and the republicans here seem to recognize the conservative ambitions of the republican party is all but a ruse and talking point now.
You dems... did you watch the first couple of debates? Did you notice any difference between the parties? I didn't. Especially in Iraq. So much for the midterms sending a clear message, the dems did jack shit. The candidates promised nothing, and agreed with the republicans.
Then they suddenly changed when the race got tight. But look what happens now, back to the same old stuff.
Now I'm not taking a position on this issue on the merits, I'd just like to point out that there is no reason to suspect a McCain presidency will be any different in the manner in which he handles the war than obama. Both will be worried about reelection and both will have the same pressures. But right now, as it was in the begining of the race pre-primaries, the dems and republicans are the same on iraq.
Vote for third parties. Stop this nonsense. They are both the same.
(I'll grant you Obama's stupid capital gains tax fetish is a difference as well as his desire for universal health care, but the country appears to be in favor of such and McCain probably wouldn't have the balls to veto a bill that was presented to him anyways.)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Obama throws his get-out-of-Iraq-now agenda under the bus. [Re: johnm214]
#8588201 - 07/02/08 03:27 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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The difference is not entirely illusory. There is zero doubt in my mind that a Demo controlled Congress and Executive will be hugely costly in taxes. If you are a no account bum, this is good news. If you work, this is bad news. Then there is the damage to the Supreme Court. I know Roe is a huge lodestone for libs but it is so firmly entrenched in it's unconstitutionality as to be virtually sacrosanct. But with another lib justice you can expect to see a lot more Kelos and a lot fewer DC gun law decisions.
--------------------
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dill705
Amazed



Registered: 12/10/07
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Re: Obama throws his get-out-of-Iraq-now agenda under the bus. [Re: johnm214]
#8588308 - 07/02/08 03:58 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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You sound so cynical man. I understand that nothing gets done because of the left vs. right bickering, but to take it as far as "the first couple of debates? Did you notice any difference between the parties? I didn't. Especially in Iraq.", that's just plain wrong.
I watched a lot of those debates and damn near nothing sounded alike if you were compairing parties.
Right~more troops in Iraq, it's working!!! Left~get them out ASAP, but responsibly!!!
How is that alike???
And please note that Obama has said from the beginning that he would consult with commanders to determine how fast we could withdraw, then when pressed by a moderator, said it would probably be 1-2 brigades a month.
Changing his position... Ha. Taking selected quotes out of context... Ha.
Consulting his generals about the right way to go about withdrawl, Great.
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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kriminalelement
"jesus wept."



Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Ay! los popos estan aqui!
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Re: Obama throws his get-out-of-Iraq-now agenda under the bus. [Re: dill705]
#8589240 - 07/02/08 09:02 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've become increasingly disheartened with Barack Obama. He just voted to give cell phone companies immunity on wire tapping. What a corporate stooge. Good thing I didn't give him any money in the primaries.
Still, at least he's not going to try to force adults to buy health care.
-------------------- While there is a lower class, I am in it While there is a criminal element, I am of it While there is a soul in prison, I am not free. Eugene V Debs
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kriminalelement
"jesus wept."



Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Ay! los popos estan aqui!
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Obama throws his get-out-of-Iraq-now agenda under the bus. [Re: kriminalelement]
#8589245 - 07/02/08 09:03 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Right~more troops in Iraq, it's working!!! Left~get them out ASAP, but responsibly!!!
How is that alike???
Because they mean the same thing, even if they're not saying it.
-------------------- While there is a lower class, I am in it While there is a criminal element, I am of it While there is a soul in prison, I am not free. Eugene V Debs
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dill705
Amazed



Registered: 12/10/07
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Re: Obama throws his get-out-of-Iraq-now agenda under the bus. [Re: kriminalelement]
#8589275 - 07/02/08 09:09 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Okay...
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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SoY
I am the LizardKing



Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Obama throws his get-out-of-Iraq-now agenda under the bus. [Re: dill705]
#8591260 - 07/03/08 11:29 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: The difference is not entirely illusory. There is zero doubt in my mind that a Demo controlled Congress and Executive will be hugely costly in taxes. If you are a no account bum, this is good news. If you work, this is bad news. Then there is the damage to the Supreme Court. I know Roe is a huge lodestone for libs but it is so firmly entrenched in it's unconstitutionality as to be virtually sacrosanct. But with another lib justice you can expect to see a lot more Kelos and a lot fewer DC gun law decisions.

The above observation is the reason I cannot vote for Obama. The masses say that we cannot afford Iraq, but fail to realize the disaster awaiting us with a Democrat-controlled government. (Plus they have the same Iraq policy as McCain.)
--------------------
   "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Obama throws his get-out-of-Iraq-now agenda under the bus. [Re: kriminalelement]
#8591362 - 07/03/08 12:18 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
kriminalelement said: I've become increasingly disheartened with Barack Obama. He just voted to give cell phone companies immunity on wire tapping.
but obama doesnt support special intrests, he even said so
Quote:
Still, at least he's not going to try to force adults to buy health care.
remember that time obama said he didnt support special intrests and then voted to give the telecom industry immunity on wiretapping?
I wonder where obamas shame is
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Obama throws his get-out-of-Iraq-now agenda under the bus. [Re: Prisoner#1]
#8591447 - 07/03/08 12:53 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
but obama doesnt support special intrests, he even said so
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
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Re: Obama throws his get-out-of-Iraq-now agenda under the bus. [Re: lonestar2004]
#8591946 - 07/03/08 03:19 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Anyone who voted for retroactive immunity for the telecom companies are not worthy of public office.
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