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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: Seuss]
    #8588209 - 07/02/08 03:30 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:


My argument is that General Clark is wrong... and that if General Clark is correct, then poor military service is better than no military service.




Maybe he's trying to make his own case for Veep, the incredible whore.


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Offlinedill705
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Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 3,779
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8588239 - 07/02/08 03:38 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Way to ignore the replies directed towards you Zap :nonono:


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: dill705]
    #8588450 - 07/02/08 04:49 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Not being the narcissist that you are, what specifically are you talking about?  I thought Seuss (I think it was him) said it well.  Clarke is a partisan blowhole who I refuted with exactly as much substance as he produced.  This is not real high on my list.

I think McCain's time on the Armed Services Committee (ranking minority member) might be of use as well.  Wesley Clarke's and Barack Obama's service on that committee?  Not so much.


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Offlinedill705
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8588505 - 07/02/08 05:07 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Having any experience in the military, while welcome, isn't needed. Sound judgement is needed, while the military background can come from the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Pentagon.

I do feel that if McCain was held back from an advancing to a leadership position, that may have some bearing on the election if it becomes widely known.

And really don't remember or care about what your ignoring, just that you seem to disregard others when it is expedient for you, which leads me to believe that you are just a partisan blowhole with no substance, to use the words you reserved for General Clarke. Hence, why you provided "as much substance as he produced."


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: dill705]
    #8588567 - 07/02/08 05:35 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I cannot possibly be expected to respond to every liberal retard who posts nor should you regard my failure to do so to somehow be an acquiescence to the moronic positions of any posts I do not respond to.  Life is too short and too precious and time at too much of a premium to counter every idiot thing written here.  I may reserve extra time for YOU, though, if you like.:cool:


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Offlinedill705
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8588665 - 07/02/08 06:14 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for the blessing :tongue2:


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: dill705]
    #8588712 - 07/02/08 06:28 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

This National Reviewer seems to concur.  She adds some other thoughts, though.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NzU4NzNmNzY2ZjQ3MWMxODJiZjRiYjk4YTMzY2VmOTg=

Quote:

McCain isn’t a hero because he was tortured. He’s a hero because he declined an offer by his captors to be released, refusing to leave his fellow Americans behind.

It may not take much effort to get shot down, but it must take a considerable act of will to consign oneself to more deprivation and torture. It must take a level of courage unknown to most to place concern for others above one’s own interest.

#ad#Surely self-sacrifice, courage and loyalty figure somewhere in the calculus for selecting a president.

We can make no similar analysis of Obama, since he hasn’t fought in any wars in his lifetime. But we have been given a glimpse at how Obama responds to external pressures and where he draws the line on loyalty and self-sacrifice. When it comes to family and friends, it seems Obama is first a survivalist.

A few months ago, when the Rev. Jeremiah Wright first came to national attention, Obama was nearly demure when he said: “I can no more disown (Wright) than I can disown my white grandmother.”

He may not have disowned his white grandmother, but Obama didn’t exactly paint a sympathetic — or loving — portrait of her either. He essentially threw her under the bus, saying that she had made racist remarks while he was growing up, a statement that served only to highlight Obama’s own remarkable transcendence.

After several weeks of balancing his professed love for Wright with the controversial statements of his chosen father figure and spiritual mentor, Obama eventually left his church of 20 years. But why then, after all those years, did Obama finally find the door?

What changed was the degree of his self-interest. As long as Wright was helping Obama burnish his bona fides within the African-American community, it didn’t matter that the minister’s rhetorical flights of fancy bordered on paranoid, racist delusion. Only when Wright became a potential obstacle to Obama’s ambition — by saying that Obama was simply behaving as a politician — did Obama show Wright the underside of that very busy bus.

Clark is right that getting shot down doesn’t qualify one to be commander-in-chief. But it is relevant to wonder with whom one would rather share a foxhole.

— Kathleen Parker is a syndicated columnist and author of Save the Males: Why Men Matter; Why Women Should Care.





Nuance.


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Offlinedill705
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8588750 - 07/02/08 06:38 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Clark is right that getting shot down doesn’t qualify one to be commander-in-chief.




Which is what this thread is about.

Thank you, have a nice day :dancingshroom:


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: dill705]
    #8588791 - 07/02/08 06:46 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

As I said earlier, it  in itself neither qualifies you nor disqualifies you.  Other things peripheral to that  might be relevant, though.  Nuance.


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Edited by zappaisgod (07/02/08 06:47 PM)

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Offlinedill705
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8588803 - 07/02/08 06:49 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, I agree. Giving of himself for his fellow detainees is quite great. Running on your military experience when you were denied advancement into leadership positions = Epic Fail.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: dill705]
    #8588914 - 07/02/08 07:22 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I haven't heard one single example of John McCain running on his military experience.  Unlike John "I served in Vietnam until I could get out" Kerry.  More nuance for the nuance deprived:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/07/020887.php

Quote:

I think some of the criticism of Clark has been overblown; he always repeats that he respects and admires McCain, but doesn't think he has the judgment or executive experience needed to be President. This afternoon on CNN, John Roberts pointed out the most glaring contradiction in Clark's theory of military experience: his enthusiastic endorsement of John Kerry, whose strategic command experience was nowhere near McCain's. Here was the exchange:

    ROBERTS: But when it comes to that same type of qualification, you were very robustly behind John Kerry's military experience...

    CLARK: Absolutely.

    ROBERTS: ... in your speech at the Democratic National Convention in 2004, where you talked about his experience of being there under mortar fire.

    CLARK: Right.

    ROBERTS: And let's listen to the way that you summed that up.

    CLARK: Right.

    (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

    CLARK: John Kerry's combination of physical courage and moral values is my definition of what we need as Americans in our commander in chief.

    (END VIDEO CLIP)

    ROBERTS: So, you said it's what we need in a commander in chief. And I'm wondering how different was John McCain's experience from John Kerry's?

    CLARK: Well, a lot, because John McCain basically served honorably and well in uniform. He did everything the country could have asked.

    What John Kerry did is John Kerry got out of the uniform. He took a judgment, a judgment I didn't agree with at the time, but he had the moral courage to stand up for himself and oppose the conflict in Vietnam.

    ROBERTS: But where was the executive experience that you talked about?

    CLARK: The executive experience wasn't the issue there, because John Kerry wasn't claiming that he had some special executive experience on national security against George Bush.

So Kerry's military experience was better than McCain's because after serving for four months in Vietnam, he returned to the U.S. and falsely accused his fellow servicemen of being war criminals. I think it's time for Wesley Clark to be ushered quietly off the stage.




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Offlinedill705
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8589125 - 07/02/08 08:29 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Okay, you can say that he was wrong about Kerry, but that doesn't mean he's wrong now.






Which he isn't.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: dill705]
    #8589572 - 07/02/08 10:27 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
This National Reviewer seems to concur.  She adds some other thoughts, though.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NzU4NzNmNzY2ZjQ3MWMxODJiZjRiYjk4YTMzY2VmOTg=

Quote:

McCain isn't a hero because he was tortured. He's a hero because he declined an offer by his captors to be released, refusing to leave his fellow Americans behind.

It may not take much effort to get shot down, but it must take a considerable act of will to consign oneself to more deprivation and torture. It must take a level of courage unknown to most to place concern for others above one%u2019s own interest.







Quote:

dill705 said:
Quote:

Clark is right that getting shot down doesn%u2019t qualify one to be commander-in-chief.




Which is what this thread is about.

Thank you, have a nice day 



As incredibly uncomfortable as it makes me, I am afraid that I have to agree with zappa on this point.  Dill, if the extent of your stance on Clark's comments is that getting shot down doesn't qualify him for president, totally disregarding the insinuation inherent in those statements, how can anyone take seriously any criticism you may have of their opinions? 

I am fairly certain that McCain is NOT basing his campaign on the fact that he got shot down.  He is basing his claims of national security experience on his commission as an officer in the Navy after graduating from Annapolis (5th from the bottom); command of several units, one of which was awarded it's first Meritorious Unit Commendation while under his command; his retirement as a Captain (O/6) after 22 years in the Navy; his 3 terms in the House; 20 years in the Senate, where he sat on the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, and the Armed Services Committee where he is the ranking Republican.

Thank you, Wikipedia!


Anyway, back to a position I feel much more comfortable in...

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I haven't heard one single example of John McCain running on his military experience.



Are you totally insane? Not one example, huh?  Well, here are five.  It took me literally one minute to find them.  There are more..  MANY more.

http://www.johnmccain.com/informing/News/NewsReleases/25d663a0-612f-45c2-be40-bd0f6b9bfc36.htm
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/News/NewsReleases/Read.aspx?guid=ea2ce00e-baab-409c-ada2-57c35ea815ac
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2007-04-25-mccain_N.htm
http://www.qctimes.com/articles/2007/12/20//news/local/doc4769fffe9303a091579753.txt
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0704260017apr26,1,5918888.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed

I have absolutely no idea how you can make a statement like that and actually expect people to not erupt with laughter right in your face.  His entire campaign is based almost solely on his military and National defense record.  The levels you are willing to sink to are unfathomable.  At least try to maintain a semblance of sanity when you type.  It's just too hard to read the boards when I am laughing so hard.


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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

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Offlinedill705
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: thedefone]
    #8589591 - 07/02/08 10:31 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

If you didn't realize I was quoting an article Zap put up to refute me.

And my claim is that military experience alone, especially military experience where you were denied higher leadership positions, does not make one qualified for president.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: dill705]
    #8589650 - 07/02/08 10:48 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

And my claim is that military experience alone, especially military experience where you were denied higher leadership positions, does not make one qualified for president.




No shit.  Thats not your claim, that a normal thing most people think.  Qualification for president requires a whole host of experiences.  Military is but one experience of many that may contribute to qualification for president.

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