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Offlinedill705
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Wesley Clark Is Right
    #8582536 - 07/01/08 12:17 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I hear the teevee talking heads are in a tizzy this morning about a remark made by Gen. Wesley Clark in an interview. Gen. Clark said that riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is not a qualification to be president. He's absolutely right about that and that's not an attack. It's a simple statement of fact.

As Clark also said, we can certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war and as a nation we should be grateful to McCain for fighting in that war, just as we should cherish and honor the 58,000 who didn't get captured and died on the battlefields. But spending five years in a cage in the jungle, where McCain himself admits he received preferential treatment because of his father's status as an admiral, is hardly preparation for the kind of decisions that must be made by a president.

Furthermore, if we're to judge McCain by his military service, then shouldn't it be material that he graduated from the military academy at almost the very bottom of his class and he left the service and went into politics instead, when it became clear that he would never be promoted to admiral because his superiors judged he just didn't have what it takes to be a leader?

If he wasn't fit for a high ranking military command, why on earth should "his record" be used as a credential to prove his fitness for the highest office in our nation? If anything, it proves the opposite.



http://info.detnews.com/redesign/blogs/politicsblog/index.cfm

Did anyone else know he graduated low in his class? Anyone know where to verify this?

Seems like that is somewhat of a big dealwhen your running on your military experience.


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: dill705]
    #8582994 - 07/01/08 04:38 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I have no love for McCain, but the above is pretty lame and very slippery propaganda...

Lemme see if I can phrase it such that the propaganda part becomes evident:

Quote:

Being a bad soldier does not qualify somebody for president.  McCain was so bad, that he was shot down and taken as a POW.  What a loser.  He can't even keep a plane in the air, how do you expect him to run a country?

We can certainly honor his service to his country, sitting in a cage while his fellow soldiers gave their lives for freedom, but we should also honor the 58,000 soldiers that managed to fight, rather than giving up and allowing themselves to be captured.  The enemy treated McCain with love and respect, while they tortured him, because his father was an admiral.  Hardly the kind of preparation that produces a good president.

Furthermore, did you know McCain is stupid like Bush?  McCain graduated low in his class, like Bush.  McCain went to an ivy league military academy, just like Bush, well, almost.  Do you really want another almost like Bush in office?

Although McCain left the service after figuring out a clever way to avoid combat during the war, (like Bush).  Had he stayed, we would have fired him because he was a worthless soldier that had no leadership skills and would never have been promoted.  Unable to hack the military, he left in disgrace and became a corrupt politician.

He wasn't fit to be in the military.  He wasn't fit to be a POW.  He is just like Bush, stupid, slow, low in his class, riding his fathers coattails, and a military failure.  His record speaks for itself.  He rolls over and lets the enemy capture him, then runs away from the military to hide in congress.  Is this the kind of "leader" we want running the country?




Lemme guess... Clark is a lifelong Democrat?  Looking him up... wow, he went to Oxford and graduated with a degree in Philosophy (bullshitting).  He endorsed the Clintons (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/15/AR2007091500788.html) and is being considered to run as Obama's vice president.  Not what I would consider unbiased.

How much military experience does Obama have again?  How many years did Obama serve in the military, risking his life to protect the constitution?

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Offlinedill705
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: Seuss]
    #8583397 - 07/01/08 09:15 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

That quote wasn't from Clark, but from a blog on Detroit news .com or some shit.

I see how it's skewed, and never claimed it to not be. All I wanted to know is if the information is true.

There's nothing wrong with getting to know your candidates.;)


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: Seuss]
    #8583599 - 07/01/08 10:46 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
How much military experience does Obama have again?  How many years did Obama serve in the military, risking his life to protect the constitution?




Does it matter? No, no, not really at all... How could it be substantiated, anyways, what someone was risking their life for?


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Invisibledanknugz81
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: Seuss]
    #8583620 - 07/01/08 10:53 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
How much military experience does Obama have again?  How many years did Obama serve in the military, risking his life to protect the constitution?




wait, so the vietnam war was about protecting our constitution? :eek:

i'm not knocking mccain's service, but cmon now..

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OfflineRebirtha
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: danknugz81]
    #8583663 - 07/01/08 11:04 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah really... Vietnam was one of the worst tragedies America has been part of. It has nothing to do with the Constitution and everything to do with America's imperial agenda. So he got shot down in a controversial war that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, and that's supposed to be honorable? To me he was a pawn to his masters. Sure he was brave, but how brave do you have to be to kill innocent people by dropping bombs from a plane? He was so brave when he killed those innocent people from a a couple thousand feet up and then got shot down... Not trying to downplay his service and I know people will get upset by this but lets get real. And Obama is against war and hasn't faught in one so he's not qualified?

Edited by Rebirtha (07/01/08 11:19 AM)

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InvisibleJRayV
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: Rebirtha]
    #8584153 - 07/01/08 01:56 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Was it Vietnam or the Korean War?

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OfflineRebirtha
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: JRayV]
    #8584172 - 07/01/08 02:03 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: dill705]
    #8584520 - 07/01/08 03:42 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

nodody is disputing that hes right..but whether clark is being politically prudent is a different story altogether...


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: Annapurna1]
    #8584627 - 07/01/08 04:08 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Just what, exactly, is Wesley Clark right about?


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8584660 - 07/01/08 04:16 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Just what, exactly, is Wesley Clark right about?




McCain's war experience does not give him a higher qualification for President than Obama.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: downforpot]
    #8584964 - 07/01/08 05:39 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

OK.  He's wrong.


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Offlinedill705
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: Annapurna1]
    #8584971 - 07/01/08 05:41 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I think what he said is absolutely fine, he even said that he doesn't want to downplay his military service or patriotism.


How can you be any more prudent while still making your point, which is a completely valid point?


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: dill705]
    #8584976 - 07/01/08 05:43 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

What was the point?


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8584982 - 07/01/08 05:45 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
OK.  He's wrong.




I'd like proof showing that presidents who were members of th armed forces are more prepared to be president than those who are not. Nobody is an expert in everything; McCain himself admitted he's not very knowledgeable about the economy. That is what the cabinet is for.

I'll be waiting for that proof.

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Offlinedill705
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: Redstorm]
    #8584987 - 07/01/08 05:46 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

As shall I.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: dill705]
    #8584995 - 07/01/08 05:49 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I think it is helpful and relevant.  I do not think it is a sine qua non, but it is definitely helpful.  Proof?  Don't be daft.  Fuckface Clark made a statement.  Let him prove his.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8585000 - 07/01/08 05:51 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

As did you.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: danknugz81]
    #8587065 - 07/02/08 09:00 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

> wait, so the vietnam war was about protecting our constitution? :eek:

Where the &#$% did Vietnam war come from?  When you join the US military, you risk your life to protect the US constitution.  This is the job description and the first line of the oath taken when you join up, "I do solemnly wear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United State against all enemies, foreign and domestic".

Don't confuse the politicians use of war as a statement towards the soldiers that are giving their lives.

If McCain were drafted, rather than signing up, then I would have no point.  However, that was not the case.  He volunteered, thus he willingly joined the military knowing that his life may be sacrificed to protect the US Constitution.

General Clark wants to belittle this sacrifice in order to further his own petty political ambitions.  He should be ashamed.

And my questions still stand, though nicely avoided through a change of topic... Asking again, "How much military experience does Obama have again?  How many years did Obama serve in the military, risking his life to protect the constitution?"

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Wesley Clark Is Right [Re: danknugz81]
    #8587086 - 07/02/08 09:10 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

> I'd like proof showing that presidents who were members of th armed forces are more prepared to be president than those who are not.

For me, the above isn't the point...

McCain volunteered for military service to protect his country.  Ron Paul volunteered for military service to protect his country.  Jimmy Carter volunteered for military service.  In my mind, all of these have more honor than somebody like John Edwards, Barak Obama, or Bill Clinton who all managed to avoid military service.  (Don't get me started on George W... :mad:)

Finally, it is General Clark that is making the claim that military service is somehow important towards being president.  It is General Clark that is claiming that McCain's military service reflects poorly on his ability to be president.

My argument is that General Clark is wrong... and that if General Clark is correct, then poor military service is better than no military service.


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