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OfflineRasJeph
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Growing Peyote
    #8563962 - 06/25/08 09:18 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Now, Im reading conflicting information. Erowid is telling me it is illegal to ship seeds to the US (as seeds are included in the restrictions...)

But I have found like 3 sites which are selling seeds, that claim they will ship "ANYWHERE".

So, who is wrong, the sites, or Erowid? Im really jazzed about growing some peyote...but I dont want to get ripped off.

Is there a non-psychoactive type of peyote? The type I found for sale is "Lophophore Williamsii".

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!


I used the search, etc, but no results on weather or not the seeds are legal. Hmmm.



EDIT: AH-HA. It appears their policy is a "don't ask, don't tell" one. :laugh:


"Are your products legal in my country?
The products must be legal in the country you order from. All products we sell are legal in Holland, however we cannot check the legal status of a product in every single country. It is your responsibility to check the legal status of a product. If you order from us, than you order is 100% done at your own risk. We dont give refunds and we are not responsible if your order will be confiscated by the local authorities!"


Awesome.


Edited by RasJeph (06/25/08 09:35 PM)


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OfflineBubba McMushies
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: RasJeph]
    #8564067 - 06/25/08 09:42 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Just FYI Peyote grows SLOOOOWWWW. Growing from a seed could take 10 to 15 years before a decent sized button exists.

I suggest sticking to T. Pachanoi (san pedro) and doing extractions. They grow much much faster.

P.S. you could also graft a peyote button onto T. Pachanoi and almost double the growing speed of the button. But you again will still need a button to start with.


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OfflineMadSeason


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: Bubba McMushies]
    #8564265 - 06/25/08 10:34 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I bought around 10 seeds, Only one lived... I had it for 1 years and a half, died few days ago, my mother was taking care of it ( I dont know anymore ) and she told me it died, I was sad, I loved it

Im gonna buy more seeds.
I was only using the sun light, is it better to grow it with some lights ?


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OfflineBubba McMushies
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: MadSeason]
    #8564307 - 06/25/08 10:49 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)



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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: Bubba McMushies]
    #8564451 - 06/25/08 11:30 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Yea T. Pachanoi is a lot easier to get, you can order it legally online.


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: RasJeph]
    #8565078 - 06/26/08 02:23 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Even growing Peyote is illegal. It is the only mescaline-containing species which is illegal to cultivate, that I know of.

As other people have said, there are better alternatives if you are looking for an active species. San Pedro, Peruvian Torch, and Bridgesii are a couple of alternatives. You can even be as lucky to find them at your local Home Depot from time to time.

Assuming you live in the United States:
"Peyote (lophophora williamsii) is Schedule I in the United States. This means it is illegal to manufacture, buy, possess, or distribute (sell, trade or give) without a DEA license."

http://www.erowid.org/plants/peyote/peyote_law.shtml


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InvisibleRobo
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: RasJeph]
    #8565163 - 06/26/08 02:58 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Having some lophophora (active or other) is cool for decoration or for your cactus collection, but I would never waste my time trying to grow them or eat the ones that I have. So much time put into growing them all so you can eat them and trip, when you could just go for other cacti. And even if you buy them already grown they can be pricey depending on where you get them from, so I still wouldn't eat them (But that's just me).

The process is VERY slow like it's been said, IMO you should skip the seeds and just try to find some wild ones (if possible) if you just want them so you can eat them. Or get some small buttons and graft them, but don't go the straight-from-seed route.

And a non-psychoactive one is lophophora diffusa.


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: Robo]
    #8565208 - 06/26/08 03:19 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Ah dont tell people to go digging up wild Peyote. They are becoming more and more rare. They take just as long to grow in nature as they do in someones backyard :crankey:


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #8565325 - 06/26/08 04:15 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not talking about grandfather peyote that have been growing for decades, I mean smaller buttons.

But anyways...... if I myself did ever come across wild peyote, I gotta say it would be very tempting to take some, sorry :justdontknow:

I really doubt I would use them to trip on but it would be cool to have some.


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OfflineRasJeph
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #8565517 - 06/26/08 07:14 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
Ah dont tell people to go digging up wild Peyote. They are becoming more and more rare. They take just as long to grow in nature as they do in someones backyard :crankey:




Haha, thats not really an option for me, as I live in NY.

Actually, last night I got to thinking, and sending that place $25 for 20 seeds that are just going to get confiscated by customs isn't worth the money.

I'm just gonna take a trip up to Canada and buy me some buttons, then smuggle them over the boarder :laugh:


Can anyone suggest a nursery that they know is good?


Edited by RasJeph (06/26/08 10:10 AM)


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OfflineOphanim
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: RasJeph]
    #8566003 - 06/26/08 11:46 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You can buy Peyote buttons in Canada?


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OfflineLegoulash
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: Ophanim]
    #8566079 - 06/26/08 12:17 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Some headshops will have them. its a very rare find at nurseries.


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: Legoulash]
    #8566107 - 06/26/08 12:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Grafting is not out of the realm of possibility.  Peruvian Torch is great, and grows easily from seed.  (Just use a berry container - great for just the right amount of moisture vs. air circulation.)  A planted foot of San Pedro outgrows them all if you're looking for something to eat next year, though.


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Offlinearpnuke
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8566333 - 06/26/08 01:42 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I would be concerned about the manufacturing charges should your place get raided for whatever reason.  Maybe the pigs wouldn't recognize the peyote buttons, but if they did you've got a charge of manufacturing a schedule I substance.  Not to mention that it takes 5-10 years to finish up a crop.  That's a lot of time to be taking such a legal risk.

If it were me, I'd go the San Pedro/Peruvian Torch route.  They are legal to possess, grow much faster, and still have the active ingredient you are seeking.


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OfflineRasJeph
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: arpnuke]
    #8567899 - 06/26/08 07:34 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Not too worried about a police raid. I'm friends with most of the piggies around here...or at least on a good level with them. It pays to be fake sometimes...:thumbup:

I know it would be much easier to grow some Pedro/Torch...I just want some peyote to complete a collection. I dunno why, I just feel an overwhelming need to grow this stuff. :laugh:


Only bumping because I haven't found a nursery yet ._.


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: RasJeph]
    #8567914 - 06/26/08 07:38 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You wont find a nursery selling them because they are illegal. :lol:

Your best bet if you are looking to for Peyote is to hang around here and find someone who has a couple of them and see if they wont help you out with some seeds or even trade for a rooted one.

And as others have told you, you are looking at a 10-15 year investment of your time before you have a matured Peyote. But they are beautiful, I will add some to my collection some day when I have a more stable living arrangement.


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Offlineimplee
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: RasJeph]
    #8567946 - 06/26/08 07:45 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Its federally illegal, have fun getting raped in jail :penis::goatse::penis::goatse::penis::goatse::penis::goatse::penis::goatse::penis::goatse::penis::goatse: Breaking the law is bad :killerrabbit:


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #8567954 - 06/26/08 07:48 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
They take just as long to grow in nature as they do in someones backyard :crankey:




actually they take much, much longer


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Offlineethnoguy
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: hooksbooks]
    #8569241 - 06/27/08 12:57 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Damn, how about some helpful and relevant info regarding the original question (a few here are right though)......

First peyote (Lophophora williamsii) is illegal, seed and all. However there are lophophora which are legal in all states but CA. There are diffusa (hardly any to 0 mesc), fricii, and decipens (which a few believe to be a variation of L. williamsii). Anyhow those seeds are fairly easy to get if you know where to look.

Some places overseas will ship peyote and peyote seeds to the US. They usually are upfront about it. If they say anywhere, then that is what they mean. Seeds are easy to obtain. They will normally label them as another cacti which shares the same type of seed size. Not much of a risk with seeds IMO. Just mind WTF you are doing. Getting a letter from customs is not the best thing. Alway think before you order something from an auction site. However, I have found a couple of ppl that way. You got to compose yourself the right way and have some clue as to what the hell you are doing.

Yes, peyote grows slow. Grafting speeds up that process, but expect much lower mescaline from grafted plants. They will need to be degrafted for some time, and possibly stressed, to do the deed. Most of us who collect sacred and rare cacti seldom consume them. We appreciate the anthropological and entheobotanical nature of such specimens. Don't even bother with peyote if you do not fit into this category. Stick to trichocereus cacti.

Don't bother asking me for help though. I just don't feel comfortable, plus its against the rules. Hope this helped! GL!

EG


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OfflineRasJeph
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: ethnoguy]
    #8569956 - 06/27/08 07:31 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
You wont find a nursery selling them because they are illegal. :lol:




I guess you missed the last post I made, because I said I was going to CANADA to get them, where it is legal.



Quote:

ethnoguy said:

Most of us who collect sacred and rare cacti seldom consume them. We appreciate the anthropological and entheobotanical nature of such specimens. Don't even bother with peyote if you do not fit into this category. Stick to trichocereus cacti.

Don't bother asking me for help though. I just don't feel comfortable, plus its against the rules. Hope this helped! GL!





Thanks for the help man! Really appreciated. I know. I'm hardly planning on eating the little guys. I'd just like to have them around. It would make me feel more complete, especially living in NY where NOBODY else is going to have them. It'd be extra special :3

And yeah, I know. I'm still a stranger so I understand why you'd be reluctant. :laugh:


Edited by RasJeph (06/27/08 07:32 AM)


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: RasJeph]
    #8576860 - 06/29/08 12:03 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I think it's time someone challenged the law based on the first amendment. 

It has been accepted as a valid religious sacrement for Native Americans.  People can not be denied their religious persuits in this country based on race. 

Open/shut case.  "Slam dunk" if you will.

Or, are we going to make the determination of which branch of which religion is valid?  Is that a thing for the courts to decide?  Well, let's read that FIRST amendment again, shall we...


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: implee]
    #8576886 - 06/29/08 12:22 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

implee said:
Its federally illegal, have fun getting raped in jail :penis::goatse::penis::goatse::penis::goatse::penis::goatse::penis::goatse::penis::goatse::penis::goatse: Breaking the law is bad :killerrabbit:




You're right. Not like growing mushrooms or marijuana, or cooking chems.
I can't believe someone on this board is doing something....illlegal.


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: RasJeph]
    #8578110 - 06/29/08 07:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

...wait, growing mushrooms is illegal? DUDE why didn't anyone tell me this.


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578207 - 06/29/08 08:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
I think it's time someone challenged the law based on the first amendment. 

It has been accepted as a valid religious sacrement for Native Americans.  People can not be denied their religious persuits in this country based on race. 

Open/shut case.  "Slam dunk" if you will.

Or, are we going to make the determination of which branch of which religion is valid?  Is that a thing for the courts to decide?  Well, let's read that FIRST amendment again, shall we...




People try to use that agrument all the time as their excuse for wanting to trip. Every time the courts rule that it isnt a religion but instead a lifestyle choice

The Native Americans can do whatever they want because this is their country and the land they own is actually sovereign from US Law in most instances.


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #8578288 - 06/29/08 08:49 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

This is "their country"?  No it's not.
 
There are exceptions to some laws on reservations, such as gambling, but these religious services are being performed off reservation lands as well. 

They and the land they own off of reservations is subject to the same laws as everyone else.


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578301 - 06/29/08 08:53 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
This is "their country"?  No it's not.
 
There are exceptions to some laws on reservations, such as gambling, but these religious services are being performed off reservation lands as well. 

They and the land they own off of reservations is subject to the same laws as everyone else.




It was their country before the Europeans came over and started slaughtering all of them and infecting them with genocidal diseases.

Do you live in a state with Native American reservations? Police dont have ANY jurisdiction except over the highways.

And regardless they have been practicing their religion since before our people even knew about this country. I think the least we owe them is a little bit of respect for their culture and way of life.


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #8578309 - 06/29/08 08:55 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

It simply wasn't a country at that time.  And I didn't do squat.  I just happen to be here now.  My parents came from Germany, so I'm a jew killer, right? 

But back on topic, are you saying that Native Americans are not US citizens?


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578321 - 06/29/08 08:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
They and the land they own off of reservations is subject to the same laws as everyone else.




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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578323 - 06/29/08 08:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
It simply wasn't a country at that time.  And I didn't do squat.  I just happen to be here now.  My parents came from Germany, so I'm a jew killer, right? 

But back on topic, are you saying that Native Americans are not US citizens?




So what, because it wasnt named "United States of America" it wasnt a country :rolleyes:

Duh Native Americans are citizens, they were all born here


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578325 - 06/29/08 09:00 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
Quote:

04281969 said:
They and the land they own off of reservations is subject to the same laws as everyone else.







No one said it wasnt


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #8578330 - 06/29/08 09:02 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

So, aside from those actually living on Indian Reservations, are not all US citizens subject to the same laws? 

(Duh)


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578337 - 06/29/08 09:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

And no, a country needs a constitution.  It was simply the land.  Totally different philosophy.


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578342 - 06/29/08 09:05 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
So, aside from those actually living on Indian Reservations, are not all US citizens subject to the same laws? 

(Duh)




Yes. But we were specifically talking about religion. If they are practicing their faith which is a US recognized religion then their Peyote use is granted.

And you would be hard pressed to find Native Americans who dont live on Reservations, atleast out West. And Im not talking about your "friend" or neighbor who is 1/16th Cherokee or some shit


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578351 - 06/29/08 09:09 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
And no, a country needs a constitution.  It was simply the land.  Totally different philosophy.




You are extremely ignorant about Native American culture and life. This land was made up of thousands of tribes.

Here is a site of the constitutions of some of the Tribes that still exist to this day

http://thorpe.ou.edu/const.html


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #8578364 - 06/29/08 09:12 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

And here you are suggesting that there is a proper religion, and more importantly an improper religion with a correct and incorrect way to use a religious sacrement, and the determining factor is the race of the individual.


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #8578375 - 06/29/08 09:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
Quote:

04281969 said:
And no, a country needs a constitution.  It was simply the land.  Totally different philosophy.




You are extremely ignorant about Native American culture and life. This land was made up of thousands of tribes.

Here is a site of the constitutions of some of the Tribes that still exist to this day

http://thorpe.ou.edu/const.html




And when do you think those constitutions were created?

You are rather ignorant yourself.  And you use a very confrontational approach to compensate.


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578379 - 06/29/08 09:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
And here you are suggesting that there is a proper religion, and more importantly an improper religion with a correct and incorrect way to use a religious sacrement, and the determining factor is the race of the individual.




No Im merely saying that you cant just "establish" a religion when you get busted for having an illegal substance.

The Native Americans have an established religion that is recognized by the Government.

Im pretty sure there is an established religion that uses Marijuana as its sacrament and has been granted religion status by the government because they went through the process of becoming a recognized religion.


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578382 - 06/29/08 09:18 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
Quote:

04281969 said:
And no, a country needs a constitution.  It was simply the land.  Totally different philosophy.




You are extremely ignorant about Native American culture and life. This land was made up of thousands of tribes.

Here is a site of the constitutions of some of the Tribes that still exist to this day

http://thorpe.ou.edu/const.html




And when do you think those constitutions were created?

You are rather ignorant yourself.  And you use a very confrontational approach to compensate.




Go do some research. Im done trying to educate you on something you clearly have no understand about


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Offlineethnoguy
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #8582483 - 07/01/08 01:57 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

How about the fact that the Native American Church is a new religion? It's not Toltec or something ancient. Its a combo of christian and native american beliefs. How is it that non-natives can go to a ceremony and participate? How are these legal peyoteros getting away with this when CA marijuana clinics keep getting raided? I bet those peyoteros don't even pay taxes since its a religion thing.

Heres what I am saying. This religious group is not in the wrong. I totally understand and somewhat agree with their belief system. What I don't understand is the ignorant laws that surround a sacred plant are in place. And since they are here, why are they discrimantory. I consider entheobotanicals of all cultures and peoples to be significant and should be able to be used responsibly. Whe are not talking about drugs that steal your soul, but rather sacraments that hold significance even to the uninformed user.

Bottom line is that current drug policies are written by fat rich white men that are too educated to realize their own ignorance, and they foolishly accept inaccurate reporting from there OWN agencies. But who the fuck am I anyhow.....

EG


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Offlinecurtibob
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Re: Growing Peyote *DELETED* [Re: RasJeph]
    #8582521 - 07/01/08 02:12 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by OneMoreRobot3021

Reason for deletion: Please do not post links to non-sponsor vendors. Thanks.



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Offlineethnoguy
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: curtibob]
    #8582529 - 07/01/08 02:15 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

READ the fucking rules curtibob. WTF?

EG


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Invisible04281969
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: ethnoguy]
    #8583208 - 07/01/08 09:41 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

We should all read and know the rules.

BTW, that has been read to include the judicial branch as well.


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8583234 - 07/01/08 10:00 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

just because native americans were here 400 years ago doesn't mean they own it now. Yeah, it's unfair, but part of conquering implies that you make the rules and the laws. try bringing that "It's a shamanistic native american plant that should be respected!" into a federal court and you're just gonna get laughed at and handcuffs slapped onto you.

I think Peyote/mescaline should be legal personally because I would love to pop a little psychoactives in my mouth and go dance around at a music festival. But life isn't fair.

I do have a question though about these kinds of cacti. If I ingest San Pedro like I would Peyote, will I get a cacti/mescaline trip? Or is peyote different? I'd like to experience a cacti once in my life and I've always wondered what's the difference. Is it kind of like mushrooms or marijuana where basically you know what to expect but every strain is different in it's own way? Or is it more drastic than that?


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Offlineethnoguy
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: skincolormarker]
    #8585015 - 07/01/08 07:57 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

skincolormarker- Get some Pedro and use 04281969's mescaline citrate extraction tek. It works and it rocks!

Yes there are several differences between peyote and pedro. The mescaline content is much higher in peyote. But because of stupid laws we are reduced to making high quality mescaline from landscaping cactus lol. That is not saying that San Pedro is not a sacred plant. Check out Erowid.org under peyote. It explains it very well.

EG


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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: ethnoguy]
    #8600559 - 07/06/08 02:06 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for that. I am very excited about trying mescaline.


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