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Invisible04281969
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: RasJeph]
    #8576860 - 06/29/08 12:03 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I think it's time someone challenged the law based on the first amendment. 

It has been accepted as a valid religious sacrement for Native Americans.  People can not be denied their religious persuits in this country based on race. 

Open/shut case.  "Slam dunk" if you will.

Or, are we going to make the determination of which branch of which religion is valid?  Is that a thing for the courts to decide?  Well, let's read that FIRST amendment again, shall we...


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: implee]
    #8576886 - 06/29/08 12:22 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

implee said:
Its federally illegal, have fun getting raped in jail :penis::goatse::penis::goatse::penis::goatse::penis::goatse::penis::goatse::penis::goatse::penis::goatse: Breaking the law is bad :killerrabbit:




You're right. Not like growing mushrooms or marijuana, or cooking chems.
I can't believe someone on this board is doing something....illlegal.


--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund


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Offlineimplee
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: RasJeph]
    #8578110 - 06/29/08 07:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

...wait, growing mushrooms is illegal? DUDE why didn't anyone tell me this.


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578207 - 06/29/08 08:30 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
I think it's time someone challenged the law based on the first amendment. 

It has been accepted as a valid religious sacrement for Native Americans.  People can not be denied their religious persuits in this country based on race. 

Open/shut case.  "Slam dunk" if you will.

Or, are we going to make the determination of which branch of which religion is valid?  Is that a thing for the courts to decide?  Well, let's read that FIRST amendment again, shall we...




People try to use that agrument all the time as their excuse for wanting to trip. Every time the courts rule that it isnt a religion but instead a lifestyle choice

The Native Americans can do whatever they want because this is their country and the land they own is actually sovereign from US Law in most instances.


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Invisible04281969
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #8578288 - 06/29/08 08:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

This is "their country"?  No it's not.
 
There are exceptions to some laws on reservations, such as gambling, but these religious services are being performed off reservation lands as well. 

They and the land they own off of reservations is subject to the same laws as everyone else.


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578301 - 06/29/08 08:53 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
This is "their country"?  No it's not.
 
There are exceptions to some laws on reservations, such as gambling, but these religious services are being performed off reservation lands as well. 

They and the land they own off of reservations is subject to the same laws as everyone else.




It was their country before the Europeans came over and started slaughtering all of them and infecting them with genocidal diseases.

Do you live in a state with Native American reservations? Police dont have ANY jurisdiction except over the highways.

And regardless they have been practicing their religion since before our people even knew about this country. I think the least we owe them is a little bit of respect for their culture and way of life.


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Invisible04281969
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #8578309 - 06/29/08 08:55 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

It simply wasn't a country at that time.  And I didn't do squat.  I just happen to be here now.  My parents came from Germany, so I'm a jew killer, right? 

But back on topic, are you saying that Native Americans are not US citizens?


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Invisible04281969
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578321 - 06/29/08 08:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
They and the land they own off of reservations is subject to the same laws as everyone else.




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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578323 - 06/29/08 08:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
It simply wasn't a country at that time.  And I didn't do squat.  I just happen to be here now.  My parents came from Germany, so I'm a jew killer, right? 

But back on topic, are you saying that Native Americans are not US citizens?




So what, because it wasnt named "United States of America" it wasnt a country :rolleyes:

Duh Native Americans are citizens, they were all born here


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578325 - 06/29/08 09:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
Quote:

04281969 said:
They and the land they own off of reservations is subject to the same laws as everyone else.







No one said it wasnt


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Invisible04281969
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #8578330 - 06/29/08 09:02 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

So, aside from those actually living on Indian Reservations, are not all US citizens subject to the same laws? 

(Duh)


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Invisible04281969
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578337 - 06/29/08 09:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

And no, a country needs a constitution.  It was simply the land.  Totally different philosophy.


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578342 - 06/29/08 09:05 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
So, aside from those actually living on Indian Reservations, are not all US citizens subject to the same laws? 

(Duh)




Yes. But we were specifically talking about religion. If they are practicing their faith which is a US recognized religion then their Peyote use is granted.

And you would be hard pressed to find Native Americans who dont live on Reservations, atleast out West. And Im not talking about your "friend" or neighbor who is 1/16th Cherokee or some shit


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578351 - 06/29/08 09:09 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
And no, a country needs a constitution.  It was simply the land.  Totally different philosophy.




You are extremely ignorant about Native American culture and life. This land was made up of thousands of tribes.

Here is a site of the constitutions of some of the Tribes that still exist to this day

http://thorpe.ou.edu/const.html


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Invisible04281969
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #8578364 - 06/29/08 09:12 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

And here you are suggesting that there is a proper religion, and more importantly an improper religion with a correct and incorrect way to use a religious sacrement, and the determining factor is the race of the individual.


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Invisible04281969
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #8578375 - 06/29/08 09:16 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
Quote:

04281969 said:
And no, a country needs a constitution.  It was simply the land.  Totally different philosophy.




You are extremely ignorant about Native American culture and life. This land was made up of thousands of tribes.

Here is a site of the constitutions of some of the Tribes that still exist to this day

http://thorpe.ou.edu/const.html




And when do you think those constitutions were created?

You are rather ignorant yourself.  And you use a very confrontational approach to compensate.


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578379 - 06/29/08 09:17 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
And here you are suggesting that there is a proper religion, and more importantly an improper religion with a correct and incorrect way to use a religious sacrement, and the determining factor is the race of the individual.




No Im merely saying that you cant just "establish" a religion when you get busted for having an illegal substance.

The Native Americans have an established religion that is recognized by the Government.

Im pretty sure there is an established religion that uses Marijuana as its sacrament and has been granted religion status by the government because they went through the process of becoming a recognized religion.


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: 04281969]
    #8578382 - 06/29/08 09:18 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

04281969 said:
Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
Quote:

04281969 said:
And no, a country needs a constitution.  It was simply the land.  Totally different philosophy.




You are extremely ignorant about Native American culture and life. This land was made up of thousands of tribes.

Here is a site of the constitutions of some of the Tribes that still exist to this day

http://thorpe.ou.edu/const.html




And when do you think those constitutions were created?

You are rather ignorant yourself.  And you use a very confrontational approach to compensate.




Go do some research. Im done trying to educate you on something you clearly have no understand about


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Offlineethnoguy
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Re: Growing Peyote [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #8582483 - 07/01/08 01:57 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

How about the fact that the Native American Church is a new religion? It's not Toltec or something ancient. Its a combo of christian and native american beliefs. How is it that non-natives can go to a ceremony and participate? How are these legal peyoteros getting away with this when CA marijuana clinics keep getting raided? I bet those peyoteros don't even pay taxes since its a religion thing.

Heres what I am saying. This religious group is not in the wrong. I totally understand and somewhat agree with their belief system. What I don't understand is the ignorant laws that surround a sacred plant are in place. And since they are here, why are they discrimantory. I consider entheobotanicals of all cultures and peoples to be significant and should be able to be used responsibly. Whe are not talking about drugs that steal your soul, but rather sacraments that hold significance even to the uninformed user.

Bottom line is that current drug policies are written by fat rich white men that are too educated to realize their own ignorance, and they foolishly accept inaccurate reporting from there OWN agencies. But who the fuck am I anyhow.....

EG


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Re: Growing Peyote *DELETED* [Re: RasJeph]
    #8582521 - 07/01/08 02:12 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by OneMoreRobot3021

Reason for deletion: Please do not post links to non-sponsor vendors. Thanks.



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