Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds - Original Sensible Seeds
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Capsules   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
God Helps Those Who Help Themselves
    #856281 - 09/01/02 08:25 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

What in the hell does this little witticism mean and how is it different from the atheist model of rewarded effort? Gee, if I am unemployed and send out 100 resumes and regularly call / visit potential employers, I will have better "luck" or "assistance from God" than if I sat home smoking a blunt and channel surfing?

This reminds me of the advertisement for a popular weight-loss product: Taking four capsules of XYZ along with regular aerobic exercise, a restricted-calorie diet and weight training will result in substantial weight loss.

Well, duh! Taking two tablespoons of dirt daily, along with regular aerobic exercise, a restricted-calorie diet and weight training will result in substantial weight loss.

Anyone care to enlighten the Swam how this mysterious assistance works and can be personally confirmed?



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleWorld Spirit
PNW
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: Swami]
    #856286 - 09/01/02 08:29 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Deleted by admin


Edited by enter (09/01/02 08:30 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Anonymous

Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: Swami]
    #856362 - 09/01/02 09:27 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Enter is right. That little witticism is from Benjamin Franklin who was a Deist and fathered so many illegitimate children he was jokingly referred to as the father of our country.

Cheers,


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: ]
    #856411 - 09/01/02 09:50 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Please don't mock my great-great-great-great-great-great grandpappy...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offline11polakie11
PeripheralCustodian

Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 112
Loc: G-Ville FLA
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: ]
    #856415 - 09/01/02 09:51 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

and that statements comes back to the issues some people have, and that is that they make statements as if they know exactley what goes does, how god thinks and why god does what god does. Which really doesn't make him an all mysterious, profound force if some measly human can completely breakdown the psychological nature of that which created everything.

adam


--------------------
-i am waiting for my boyfriend/compainion-
_I wish i were Aeon Flux_


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 17 years, 1 day
Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: World Spirit]
    #856518 - 09/01/02 10:42 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

"God Helps Those Who Help Themselves" is a statement quoted by many religious people yet they fail to realize they are not quoting any particular author of the Bible. IMO this is an incorrect statement. God provides assistance to all of us on one level or another whether or not we feel that assistance is timely or adequate.

I don't think it's completely incorrect. Lets say someone is crying out to God for help regarding a certain problem (drug addiction, for example). Obviously God isn't going heal your addiction right there that very second, rather if the person helps his or herself by taking steps outward from the problem/addiction, God will be more than happy to give that person the strength they need. Once you get going, God will give you a little a push on the way to help you. But He's not going to brush your teeth for you. :laugh: 


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Anonymous

Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: Swami]
    #856534 - 09/01/02 10:49 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Please don't mock my great-great-great-great-great-great grandpappy...

If that isn't a case for genetic determinism I don't know what is. :grin:

Cheers, 


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineIni
daughter of theyew- tree

Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 102
Loc: Switzerland
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: Swami]
    #856537 - 09/01/02 10:49 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

It means that everyone has to be his/her own god/godess.
IMO, there is no great god to pull us out of the mess we stumbled in. To me, life itself is the thing so many call "god".
Life shows no mercy.



--------------------
Remain in Light
Greez Ini


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleWorld Spirit
PNW
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: Zahid]
    #856538 - 09/01/02 10:50 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Deleted by admin


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Anonymous

Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: World Spirit]
    #856549 - 09/01/02 10:54 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Are saying that God can do anything?

Can He violate His own nature?

Can He will Himself into non-existence?

Can He violate our Freewill?

Can he do that which is logically impossible?

The answers to these and other questions are not easy to answer.

Cheers,


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleWorld Spirit
PNW
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: ]
    #856559 - 09/01/02 11:02 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Deleted by admin


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 17 years, 1 day
Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: World Spirit]
    #856566 - 09/01/02 11:05 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

THere's nothing obvious about that statement. God, who is all-powerful, can do whatever He so chooses. This would include healing someone psychologically and/or physically from an addiction, and furthermore God has no time limits for healing an individual as far as I know - so an instant healing is quite possible if God desires it.

Of course! Maybe I used obvious as the wrong choice of words. I was saying that God might be more willing to help those who put an effort to better themselves, that is all. If God wishes to instantly heal someone, that is more than fine too.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: Zahid]
    #856572 - 09/01/02 11:08 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

But He's not going to brush your teeth for you.

Yeah, but what about a little assist getting that tough spot behind the rear molars...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Anonymous

Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: World Spirit]
    #856624 - 09/01/02 11:26 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

A bit off topic, don't you think?

Not all at since we were discussing what God can and cannot do. It is highly germane in my view.

These are not that tough to answer btw.

Simple answers are easy answers but they can be incorrect ones as all of yours are.

Are saying that God can do anything?
Yes, but He chooses not too and has told us through the prophets how he conducts Himself.


Please give a scripture reference with the conext that means this.

[note]: With God all things are possible is NOT one.

Can He violate His own nature?
He does not have a nature as far as I know at the moment. He has personality and identity based on what He wills to be.


Absolutely incorrect. The nature of God has been a discussion among theologians for centuries. Are you implying that all of them are wrong or that you alone have the only correct answer?

Can He violate our Freewill?
Yes. As far as the Bible's authors are concerned, God does give us free will but He also operates through many of us without asking. Remember when Saul, who was evil and condemned at the moment, began prophesying by the word of the Lord? I highly doubt he did so by choice. Thus, he was not initiating/exercising free will. Thus, God in a sense overtook Saul's will.


Saul aka Paul chose to follow God after He revealed Himself to him. It was entirely a matter of choice.

Can he do that which is logically impossible?
Of course. Logic, as well as beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. God's wisdom contradicts mankind's logic on a daily basis, don't you think?


I think you know less about logic than you do about God and that is saying a lot. The laws of logic are immutable.

I wish I had time to quibble with you but each question has entire volumes written about it.

Easy answers are simple answers because they reflect the source of their origin, a simple mind.

Not trying to be hard on you but you have a lot to learn and maybe a lot to unlearn as well.

Cheers,


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleWorld Spirit
PNW
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: ]
    #856672 - 09/01/02 11:53 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Deleted by admin


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineFliquid
Back from being gone.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 6,953
Loc: omotive
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: Swami]
    #856739 - 09/01/02 12:15 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Somebody i know said:

To be blessed by someone from the point of the persons believe, is the most powerfull thing for me. I don't believe in god, but the power of the persons believe is what gives me the true blessing.

My mind is always spinning, but when he told me this the sunshine became clear and i understood why you should not be super anti god. People who believe in god don't always suppress other to become believers of god. Jadda jadda jadda.. Enough... I hope this adds some ambiance to you text.  :wink: 


--------------------
:dancing: My latest music! :yesnod:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Anonymous

Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: World Spirit]
    #856749 - 09/01/02 12:19 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I don't recall even mentioning any theologians nor do I care to. If I'm wrong, correct me with truth. If I'm right, well, then I'm right.

Brilliant. So you are saying that unless I take the necessary time, which I do not have, to correct your misperceived notions you will assume you are correct. Perhaps, and I am just spitballing here, you might do a little study on your own. Unless you have always known the truth about everything. If that is the case, then by all means, do not bother.

The scriptures you mentioned do not give evidence that God usurped anyone's freewill.

>I wish I had time to quibble with you but each question has entire volumes written about it.

As I said.

Cheers,


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleWorld Spirit
PNW
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: ]
    #856794 - 09/01/02 12:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Deleted by admin


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Anonymous

Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: World Spirit]
    #856826 - 09/01/02 12:52 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, don't take it the wrong way.

I may seem affable but underneath that thin veneer is a person who despises nonsense, especially Christian nonsense. I have been around the board many many times. I have lived in Christian communes like the ones Sclorch describes in his latest thread. I have communed with Christian idiots who wouldn't know how to interpret a scripture if their life depended on it. I have been to over thirty denominations and watched plenty of theatre while the unwashed masses pretend to know God and at the same time their actions reveal they despise Him. If some of that resentment/anger gets spilled on you I am sorry. Some things get under my skin in a hurry.

At times my strong feelings of dislike for certain ideological errors leak through like so much acid on a sponge. Most of the time I keep it in check.

Cheers,


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: ]
    #857732 - 09/01/02 08:41 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

...acid on a sponge.

Mmmmmmmmmm.... sponge acid!

*drool*

pinky


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Anonymous

Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: Swami]
    #857880 - 09/01/02 10:04 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Well, duh! Taking two tablespoons of dirt daily, along with regular aerobic exercise, a restricted-calorie diet and weight training will result in substantial weight loss. 



Dirt You say?! :wink:

I get your meaning, and I agree.
now let me get back to smoking a blunt and channel surfing.
-OoD


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Anonymous

Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: Anonymous]
    #858063 - 09/01/02 11:53 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

How could someone NOT love a girl like that?

Cheers m'dears,


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Anonymous

Re: God Helps Those Who Help Themselves [Re: Phred]
    #858066 - 09/01/02 11:56 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

sponge acid

Ok, so I'm metaphorically challenged!  :grin:

Cheers, 


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Capsules   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* If there IS a God, does he DO anything???
( 1 2 3 all )
GoBlue! 3,313 42 04/22/11 01:58 PM
by synapz
* When will you all understand? There is no god!
( 1 2 3 4 ... 13 14 )
Fliquid 20,261 263 09/22/11 12:30 PM
by Cactilove
* Could God Forgive the devil?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
sir tripsalot 15,594 124 04/25/02 05:47 PM
by sir tripsalot
* Open letter to God jimsuzo 765 8 04/19/03 12:10 AM
by The_Clash_UK
* Creating reality - does God really help?
( 1 2 3 all )
Swami 3,281 47 03/08/03 03:31 AM
by The_Clash_UK
* If God really wants us to believe in him...
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Baby_Hitler 4,290 74 05/06/03 02:35 AM
by Deiymiyan
* what is god?
( 1 2 3 all )
Anonymous 3,329 59 05/06/03 03:36 AM
by World Spirit
* God Exists
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Zahid 10,843 113 03/18/03 05:57 PM
by falcon

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
3,006 topic views. 0 members, 1 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic | ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.024 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 16 queries.