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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #8562238 - 06/25/08 01:52 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Quote:

Senor_Hongos said:
86 percent of convicted child molesters who molested boys describe themselves as homosexual or bisexual.




This is a very sad topic, but this sentence is fortunately quite funny.

Males that molest other males are usually homosexual or bisexual - OMG surprise!




:lol:

I thought that one was too obvious to address.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8562255 - 06/25/08 01:56 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

It is just so hard to get a straightforward answer to my reasonable queries




I feel your pain, brother. :heart:


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8562777 - 06/25/08 03:56 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

What I don't understand is what you hope to accomplish here? 




Even more puzzling is the folks that know I am a broken record and yet still wander in to counter my lame arguments with even lamer counter-arguments.

:rofl2:




So your counter argument to the post is to ignore everyone's perspective and continue on with negative inflammatory comments?

I didn't see a single reply regarding a baseless accusation that religious people commit as many as, if not more, unmoral acts than non-religious people.


--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...


Edited by Crasher (06/25/08 07:39 PM)


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #8562804 - 06/25/08 04:04 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

I thought most people who molested boys were lesbians :confused:

That said, child molestation is a crime of violence. It is up for debate whether a pedophiliac act can even be described as heterosexual or homosexual, as the motives often tend to be violent in nature, expressing themselves sexually, rather than sexual acts accompanied with violence. This is hotly debated on all forms of rape by the way.

Evidence would be prison sex - otherwise straight makes in jail who take their frustrations out on other men, then after release continue a heterosexual lifestyle.

Its not sex as an act of love, of fondness of, but as anb act of aggression, in case of pedophiles directed at a helpless target, like muggers who only mug the elderly.






I for one like to see the crime statistics of believers vs nonbelievers also.


--------------------
YE OLDE CLICK-O-RAMA FEST :fairy: ASANTE'S PREPAREDNESS 101
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Edited by Asante (06/25/08 04:09 PM)


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: Crasher]
    #8562957 - 06/25/08 04:49 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
I didn't see a single reply regarding a baseless accusation that religious people commit more unmoral acts than non-religious people.




No one claimed this.  :confused:  OC said that religious folks do not commit fewer immoral acts than non-religious folks.  Presumably, the religious dictates by which they live would cause them to commit fewer immoral acts, yet the prison population does not reflect this difference.  :shrug:


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: Veritas]
    #8562993 - 06/25/08 04:59 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Presumably, the religious dictates by which they live would cause them to commit fewer immoral acts, yet the prison population does not reflect this difference.





Have you a source for this? And ofcourse of people who were religious before the offense, not ten-to-lifers who became saints in jail :smile:


--------------------
YE OLDE CLICK-O-RAMA FEST :fairy: ASANTE'S PREPAREDNESS 101
Get 1 month's supplies in case of illness or calamity and help loved ones.
Strengthen your friendship ties - and exchange more favors and advice !

OMNICYCLION    SUPPORT TICKETS  STORE  SPONSORS/VENDORS  TREES
OMNICALCULATOR :mushroom: CULTIVATE!! :mushroom: DISCORD :mushroom: REDDIT :mushroom: FACEBOOK


please help the teachings of  The Omnicyclion  reach a wider audience
thank you for volunteering your efforts towards this mind (r)evolution

PAXG: 0x52e54ca2780894ea3f839ca0904be2c319c813e9 what's paxg?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: Asante]
    #8563020 - 06/25/08 05:06 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Lets take a look.

Teen pregnancy out of wedlook is considered immoral by most western religions.

Teens rarely get pregnant in prison.

The highest rates of teen pregancy occur in the most religious areas of the country.

Do the math.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: Asante]
    #8563062 - 06/25/08 05:16 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

I would love to see a source citing either position.

I recall the teenage pregnancy study but can't find it on this damn iPhone.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: Asante]
    #8563076 - 06/25/08 05:20 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Criminals are polled as to their religious affiliation upon entry into prison, and all the major religions are well-represented.  I'll see if I can find links, but common sense indicates that, of the 2 million people in jail and prison, many of them are religious.  Consider the percentages of the U.S. population--if 1 out of 130 people in the U.S. are in jail or prison, what are the odds that they are all non-religious?

Much info here: http://moses.creighton.edu/jrs/2005/2005-11.html


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: Veritas]
    #8563623 - 06/25/08 07:42 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Criminals are polled as to their religious affiliation upon entry into prison, and all the major religions are well-represented.  I'll see if I can find links, but common sense indicates that, of the 2 million people in jail and prison, many of them are religious.  Consider the percentages of the U.S. population--if 1 out of 130 people in the U.S. are in jail or prison, what are the odds that they are all non-religious?

Much info here: http://moses.creighton.edu/jrs/2005/2005-11.html




Many of them state a religious affiliation, which may or may not make someone religious. Many catholics I've encountered claim to be so, and follow about 0% of their affiliated practices.

Now, if the basis for this thread was purely affiliation, it would be an entirely different matter, IMO.


--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: Crasher]
    #8563634 - 06/25/08 07:45 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

I think that the lack of application of their beliefs is exactly the point here.  If we are only allowed to examine the behavior of those few religious believers who practice what they preach, the data will be skewed.  Besides, we might not be able to contact all three people whom we would need to survey.  :smirk:


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: Veritas]
    #8563642 - 06/25/08 07:48 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

And how many "found God" between committing the crime and the sentencing?  I'm sure someone going into prison is going to admit they are a hardcore, unrepentant atheist because they really, really think that will help them get early parole.  :rolleyes:

And, the quote I offered earlier shows why the OP's reasoning is flawed.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8563657 - 06/25/08 07:53 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

There is no way to know what their religious affiliation was prior to committing the crime.  However, the # of people in prison is a LARGE chunk of the population of one of the most religious countries in the world.  Don't you think it is likely that religious folks commit just as many crimes as non-religious folks?  I agree with the author of your quote that religious beliefs have little or nothing to do with ethical behavior, but this is NOT what the religious folks claim.  If being religious is supposed to improve your behavior, why are so many people in the U.S. committing crimes?


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: Veritas]
    #8563666 - 06/25/08 07:54 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Got to love statistics.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: Veritas]
    #8563679 - 06/25/08 07:58 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Besides, we might not be able to contact all three people whom we would need to survey.




:rimshot:


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8563773 - 06/25/08 08:20 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

If being religious is supposed to improve your behavior, why are so many people in the U.S. committing crimes?




because affiliation is not belief. Many people  only pay lip service, but I believe that that says more about their agenda than anything about religion , or true followers.


--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: Veritas]
    #8563882 - 06/25/08 08:58 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

if 1 out of 130 people in the U.S. are in jail or prison

It's up to 1 out of every 100 and a big fraction are harmless potheads and such who just wanna be left alone.

The Associated Press link where I first read this is gone, sorry, but if you google around, you can probably find the source article and others that back this:

--

NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in U.S. history, more than one of every 100 adults is in jail or prison, according to a new report documenting America's rank as the world's No. 1 incarcerator. It urges states to curtail corrections spending by placing fewer low-risk offenders behind bars.

Using state-by-state data, the report says 2,319,258 Americans were in jail or prison at the start of 2008 — one out of every 99.1 adults. Whether per capita or in raw numbers, it's more than any other nation.

The report, released Thursday by the Pew Center on the States, said the 50 states spent more than $49 billion on corrections last year, up from less than $11 billion 20 years earlier. The rate of increase for prison costs was six times greater than for higher education spending, the report said.

The steadily growing inmate population "is saddling cash-strapped states with soaring costs they can ill afford and failing to have a clear impact either on recidivism or overall crime," the report said.

Susan Urahn, managing director of the Pew Center on the States, said budget woes are pressuring many states to consider new, cost-saving corrections policies that might have been shunned in the recent past for fear of appearing soft on crime.

"We're seeing more and more states being creative because of tight budgets," she said in an interview. "They want to be tough on crime. They want to be a law-and-order state. But they also want to save money, and they want to be effective."

The report cited Kansas and Texas as states that have acted decisively to slow the growth of their inmate population. They are making greater use of community supervision for low-risk offenders and employing sanctions other than reimprisonment for offenders who commit technical violations of parole and probation rules.

"The new approach, born of bipartisan leadership, is allowing the two states to ensure they have enough prison beds for violent offenders while helping less dangerous lawbreakers become productive, taxpaying citizens," the report said.

While many state governments have shown bipartisan interest in curbing prison growth, there also are persistent calls to proceed cautiously.

"We need to be smarter," said David Muhlhausen, a criminal justice expert with the conservative Heritage Foundation. "We're not incarcerating all the people who commit serious crimes. But we're also probably incarcerating people who don't need to be."

According to the report, the inmate population increased last year in 36 states and the federal prison system.

The largest percentage increase — 12 percent — was in Kentucky, where Gov. Steve Beshear highlighted the cost of corrections in his budget speech last month. He noted that the state's crime rate had increased only about 3 percent in the past 30 years, while the state's inmate population has increased by 600 percent.

The report was compiled by the Pew Center's Public Safety Performance Project, which is working with 13 states on developing programs to divert offenders from prison without jeopardizing public safety.

"Getting tough on criminals has gotten tough on taxpayers," said the project's director, Adam Gelb.

According to the report, the average annual cost per prisoner was $23,876, with Rhode Island spending the most ($44,860) and Louisiana the least ($13,009). It said California — which faces a $16 billion budget shortfall — spent $8.8 billion on corrections last year, while Texas, which has slightly more inmates, was a distant second with spending of $3.3 billion.

On average, states spend 6.8 percent of their general fund dollars on corrections, the report said. Oregon had the highest spending rate, at 10.9 percent; Alabama the lowest at 2.6 percent.

Four states — Vermont, Michigan, Oregon and Connecticut — now spend more on corrections than they do on higher education, the report said.

"These sad facts reflect a very distorted set of national priorities," said Sen. Bernie Sanders, an independent from Vermont, referring to the full report. "Perhaps, if we adequately invested in our children and in education, kids who now grow up to be criminals could become productive workers and taxpayers."

The report said prison growth and higher incarceration rates do not reflect an increase in the nation's overall population. Instead, it said, more people are behind bars mainly because of tough sentencing measures, such as "three-strikes" laws, that result in longer prison stays.

"For some groups, the incarceration numbers are especially startling," the report said. "While one in 30 men between the ages of 20 and 34 is behind bars, for black males in that age group the figure is one in nine."

The racial disparity for women also is stark. One of every 355 white women aged 35 to 39 is behind bars, compared with one of every 100 black women in that age group.

The nationwide figures, as of Jan. 1, include 1,596,127 people in state and federal prisons and 723,131 in local jails. That's out of almost 230 million American adults.

The report said the United States incarcerates more people than any other nation, far ahead of more populous China with 1.5 million people behind bars. It said the U.S. also is the leader in inmates per capita (750 per 100,000 people), ahead of Russia (628 per 100,000) and other former Soviet bloc nations which round out the Top 10.

The U.S. also is among the world leaders in capital punishment. According to Amnesty International, its 53 executions in 2006 were exceeded only by China, Iran, Pakistan, Iraq and Sudan.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: Diploid]
    #8563934 - 06/25/08 09:12 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

BTW, in keeping with the theme of this thread, realize that many (most?) religious people are anti-marijuana and help keep prohibition laws on the books that maintain the US's planet wide per-capita incarceration record.

I wonder what would Jesus do if he saw me smoking a joint? Throw me in a government cage or leave me alone?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: Diploid]
    #8563989 - 06/25/08 09:24 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Jesus was the original hippie. He would be bogarting that joint BIG time. :spliff:


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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: The Generic Religion Bashing thread [Re: Diploid]
    #8564001 - 06/25/08 09:27 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
BTW, in keeping with the theme of this thread, realize that many (most?) religious people are anti-marijuana and help keep prohibition laws on the books that maintain the US's planet wide per-capita incarceration record.

I wonder what would Jesus do if he saw me smoking a joint? Throw me in a government cage or leave me alone?



Im pretty sure it would go down like this...




--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code


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