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wishywashy
shroom padowan


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 94
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody!
#8559174 - 06/24/08 05:09 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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mkay first off, props to ralph for expedient and discreet service! got my spores today and just finished jarring up the BRF cakes in 1/2 pint jars.
how big of a factor is sterility before any pressure cooker use? i wore some gloves and wiped off the sides of the top of the jars before closing, and have rubbing alcohol to sterilize things if necessary.
any chance the PC will blow up my jars? i know but i've never used one before.. help!
i haven't even opend the spore box, but i won't till the jars are sterilized..
so excited for this~! gonna pick a quick colonizer to get started
-------------------- life rolls on
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beengonetoolong
Gravy Train Conductor


Registered: 06/01/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8559193 - 06/24/08 05:14 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
wishywashy said: how big of a factor is sterility before any pressure cooker use? i wore some gloves and wiped off the sides of the top of the jars before closing, and have rubbing alcohol to sterilize things if necessary.
Its not all that important, you know you are pressure cooking them.. Some people take more precautions than others. My buddy takes very little precaution prior to pressure cooking.
Quote:
wishywashy said: any chance the PC will blow up my jars?
Not unless you had them at some astronimical numbers like 100 psi for 2 hours or something. They will be fine at 15psi. Make sure to raise them off the bottom of the cooker.
Good luck
--------------------
 
Is there life after death? Trespass and find out.
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echoesSG
Dancing Echoes



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 433
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8559202 - 06/24/08 05:17 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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As long as you don't put a ridiculously intense flame to the pressure cooker the jars will be fine.Pf tek for simple minds
Edited by echoesSG (06/24/08 05:18 PM)
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


Registered: 05/24/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: echoesSG]
#8559218 - 06/24/08 05:22 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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k i got a rack that came with the PC. it don't have a pressure-ometer though! that's the scary part... what would the public recommend?
-------------------- life rolls on
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MHbound
Ballin Out At All Cost


Registered: 09/24/07
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8559254 - 06/24/08 05:36 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Follow your pressure cookers instructions...And to correct someone above yes they can blowup even when followed properly. Loosen the lids of your jars lightly, and cover with tin foil to keep the water from leaking through the rim.
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HoleSnype
I love me some me.



Registered: 04/27/06
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8559261 - 06/24/08 05:39 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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The thought of PC'ing without a "pressure-ometer" (pressure gauge) is kinda scary to me. Does it have a relief valve? Worse case scenario, is the relief valve is out-of-cal and fails, and your seal blows.
Still, I wouldn't mess with it.
-------------------- "I'm sofa king we todd did." ~ Rick James
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PIrg
Stranger
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: HoleSnype]
#8559283 - 06/24/08 05:49 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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My gram pressure cooked jellies and meats and whatnot her whole life with an old style pressure cooker. No dials, no gadgets just a pop off valve. Guess what? She never blew up anything. Yes, a jar will pop now and then, but its the nature of pressure cooking. Make sure the lids are on upside down so they cant seal and caps are loose and if it bugs you, grab an oven mitt, and pull the popoff when you hear it boiling. If it steams your good. They really arent as dangerous as one would think, but like anything else, common sense rules and err on the side of caution.
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HoleSnype
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Registered: 04/27/06
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: PIrg]
#8559370 - 06/24/08 06:23 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here is a solution. Forget the pressure cooker and boil the jars. BRF jars do not need to be pressure cooked. If you follow the methods on the "Lets grow mushrooms" videos on youtube, the success rate is very high.
You only need a PC for grains, WBS, and things like that.
Look up the lets grow mushroom videos on youtube. You will be surprised how easy it is.
-------------------- "I'm sofa king we todd did." ~ Rick James
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The shroomy 1
Luminous beings surround me




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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: HoleSnype]
#8559482 - 06/24/08 06:52 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Guys, this is not like handling Potassium metal where you have to be so damn careful not to have it spontaneously com-bust in your face. If you have a pressure cooker, USE IT! Boiling is "acceptable" with the PF tek, not "prefered". It would be a down right shame to leave that resource out of the cultivating process. STERILITY IS GOLDEN in this hobby. If you don't have the instructions for your PC, then GOOGLE THE DAMN THING. It's out there. If your PC doesn't have a pressure gauge, then it probably has weights to adjust pressure. If it's the "rocker" type of weights, then it's 5psi with no rings on, 10psi with one ring on, and 15psi with 2 rings on. Either way, google it.
The Shroomy 1
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AMU Q&A thread.
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HoleSnype
I love me some me.



Registered: 04/27/06
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: The shroomy 1]
#8559540 - 06/24/08 07:04 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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If the guy is worried about using his PC, he should boil them. I highly recommend that he does what he is comfortable with. Boiling is highly succesful for PF jars.
All in all, it's the same damned thing. The only difference is a PC boils hotter because the pressure keeps the water from flashing into steam. 212 degrees is more than enough to sterilize a pf jar.
-------------------- "I'm sofa king we todd did." ~ Rick James
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MHbound
Ballin Out At All Cost


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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: HoleSnype]
#8559620 - 06/24/08 07:23 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Everyone is right in this matter, but for that one person where it explodes they will wish they had never fucking done something stupid. I take the rubber seal off of mine, and pressure cook. It does just fine, and I never have to worry about too much pressure but serves its purpose. I did that after learning the hard way.
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blackclw
on the way to the Red Queen

Registered: 06/04/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: MHbound]
#8559748 - 06/24/08 07:51 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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It`s good to "test drive" a pressure cooker before using it for real..so you don`t get scared or something if you never used it before. Just read through this -> http://www.fungifun.org/English/Pressure-Cooker-Use
But anyway it can really be scary. I have a PC, it`s was unused util recently but it isn`t anything special, it`s just a cooker with no gauges and stuff, all metal. It bursts like hell when pressurized, you don`t wanna be near it. It`s so agressive. Its like I`m having an insane dog in my kitchen Also don`t touch it with hands if you have a PC like me.
If you suspect that something is going wrong just turn off the heat and wait until it cools down.
Edited by blackclw (06/24/08 07:52 PM)
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


Registered: 05/24/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: blackclw]
#8561510 - 06/25/08 07:42 AM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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whoops.. left my cake jars out over night! how does this bode for my jars?
-------------------- life rolls on
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HoleSnype
I love me some me.



Registered: 04/27/06
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8561512 - 06/25/08 07:43 AM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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You need to be more specific. Either way, one night isn't going to hurt anything.
-------------------- "I'm sofa king we todd did." ~ Rick James
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 94
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: HoleSnype]
#8567868 - 06/26/08 05:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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are the sterilized BRF cakes supposed to smell like something? they smell lik kind of burnt rice i'm not sure, but the jars are still intact. i PC'd them for about an hour with 5 1/2 pint jars around 4:30 today. it's now 7:30. when's good to innoc? i wanna do it tonite
-------------------- life rolls on
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beengonetoolong
Gravy Train Conductor


Registered: 06/01/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8567883 - 06/26/08 05:28 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
wishywashy said: are the sterilized BRF cakes supposed to smell like something? they smell lik kind of burnt rice i'm not sure, but the jars are still intact. i PC'd them for about an hour with 5 1/2 pint jars around 4:30 today. it's now 7:30. when's good to innoc? i wanna do it tonite
They will kinda of smell like a cooked substrate.. really a kind of weird smell if you're not familiar, it might even trick your nose into believing its a "bad smell" but I assure you its not. An hour is not necessary, however, they will be fine. I prefer 45mins or so.
I would let them cool for another 2-3 hours and inoculate those bad boys. (MAKE SURE the glass of the jars are cool to the touch)
Keep us posted!
--------------------
 
Is there life after death? Trespass and find out.
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 94
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8567893 - 06/26/08 05:32 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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rite! for my first ever innoc will be B+. got 2 of them from ralph. couple hours from now i will come to u guys for step by step sterile innoc instructions i'm more confident when the shroomery holds my hand through things like this lol
-------------------- life rolls on
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BrandNewbie
Captain



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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8567929 - 06/26/08 05:41 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
wishywashy said: i PC'd them for about an hour with 5 1/2 pint jars around 4:30 today. it's now 7:30. when's good to innoc? i wanna do it tonite
I've always read to wait overnight to inoculate your PC'd jars. They can feel cool enough, but still be too hot in the middle. It would suck to be so close to success, only to accidentally cook your spores because you didn't follow instructions!
I just plan on a tomorrow inoculation if I PC today, that way I'm sure my jars are cool enough.
-------------------- Question: Why do women wear make-up and perfume?
Answer: Because they're ugly and they stink.
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beengonetoolong
Gravy Train Conductor


Registered: 06/01/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: BrandNewbie]
#8567994 - 06/26/08 05:58 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BrandNewbie said:
Quote:
wishywashy said: i PC'd them for about an hour with 5 1/2 pint jars around 4:30 today. it's now 7:30. when's good to innoc? i wanna do it tonite
I've always read to wait overnight to inoculate your PC'd jars. They can feel cool enough, but still be too hot in the middle. It would suck to be so close to success, only to accidentally cook your spores because you didn't follow instructions!
I just plan on a tomorrow inoculation if I PC today, that way I'm sure my jars are cool enough.
Well. I beg to differ, but once the glass of the jars are cool, usually 4-6 hours in my experience(9-10 years.. no im not an expert, just some experience)... they are just fine to inoculate. So if you "really" want to save 12 hours by innoculating 4-6 hours after pcooking and they have cooled. I see no problem.
Nothing wrong with waiting, either.
--------------------
 
Is there life after death? Trespass and find out.
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 94
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8568075 - 06/26/08 06:12 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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i could just poke my finger in the substrate to see if the middle's hot right?
*edit* jooooooke that's a contam factor lololol */edit*
-------------------- life rolls on
Edited by wishywashy (06/26/08 06:35 PM)
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BrandNewbie
Captain



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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: beengonetoolong]
#8568093 - 06/26/08 06:17 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
beengonetoolong said:
Quote:
BrandNewbie said:
Quote:
wishywashy said: i PC'd them for about an hour with 5 1/2 pint jars around 4:30 today. it's now 7:30. when's good to innoc? i wanna do it tonite
I've always read to wait overnight to inoculate your PC'd jars. They can feel cool enough, but still be too hot in the middle. It would suck to be so close to success, only to accidentally cook your spores because you didn't follow instructions!
I just plan on a tomorrow inoculation if I PC today, that way I'm sure my jars are cool enough.
Well. I beg to differ, but once the glass of the jars are cool, usually 4-6 hours in my experience(9-10 years.. no im not an expert, just some experience)... they are just fine to inoculate. So if you "really" want to save 12 hours by innoculating 4-6 hours after pcooking and they have cooled. I see no problem.
Nothing wrong with waiting, either.
Please forgive my ignorance. I've read that you should wait, over and over. In fact I waited on my jars for that very reason. However, I (just this minute actually, that's why I'm back at this post) just found out from RR that my previous post is "bs". (I'm thinking he means bullshit here). Again, sorry for the misinformation. I got it from a site called The Shroomery.
P.S. You're an expert compared to me. I swear I was just trying to pass on what I've "learned".
-------------------- Question: Why do women wear make-up and perfume?
Answer: Because they're ugly and they stink.
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beengonetoolong
Gravy Train Conductor


Registered: 06/01/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: BrandNewbie]
#8568121 - 06/26/08 06:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Either way is fine.. just saying.. no need to wait for 24 hours or anything crazy like that.. but its fine either way
--------------------
 
Is there life after death? Trespass and find out.
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beengonetoolong
Gravy Train Conductor


Registered: 06/01/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8568123 - 06/26/08 06:25 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
wishywashy said: i could just poke my finger in the substrate to see if the middle's hot right?
No.
--------------------
 
Is there life after death? Trespass and find out.
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BrandNewbie
Captain



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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8568146 - 06/26/08 06:31 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
wishywashy said: i could just poke my finger in the substrate to see if the middle's hot right?
Can you say "contamination"?
I was retracting what I said out of ignorance earlier. Just listen to Beengonetoolong. I gave you shit info. (Swear it wasn't on purpose!)
-------------------- Question: Why do women wear make-up and perfume?
Answer: Because they're ugly and they stink.
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HoleSnype
I love me some me.



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 4,315
Loc: DF DUBS
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: BrandNewbie]
#8568194 - 06/26/08 06:41 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you leave the lid on your PC, like you should, it and the jars won't be cool enough to inoculate in 4 hours. You don't want to open it until it is fully cooled down to room temp.
If your jars cool off rapidly, it can cause the verm layer to get moist, and that is not good.
-------------------- "I'm sofa king we todd did." ~ Rick James
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


Registered: 05/24/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: HoleSnype]
#8568939 - 06/26/08 09:42 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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ok all in all i've given the jars 7 or so hours to cool off. couldn't wait any longer i wanted to do this tonight!. here's my procedure, and do critique as i'm gonna get good at this shit one day:
4:30pm after done with the PC, i took off the pressure regulator, it appeared to have rapidly depressurized, but i didn't put it in the fridge or anything.
couple times between, i take off the cover after depressurizing to see if jars cracked. none did:)
11:30pm i prepare to inoculate! jars smell funny, but first time for everything. i open the PC, jars still have tin foil on top. wearing rubber gloves, i put down some cotton balls for absorbing the excess spore fluid. fumbling with the damn syringe, i now figured out how to use it. i heated the syringe red hot for 2-3 out of 5 jars... i know it was minutes ago but i don't remmeber the number . am i supposed to red-hot the needle after every jar? or even every inoc site for each jar? dunno, fuck it.
after red-hotting, i squirt out some fluid so it doesn't sound as it's steaming when it comes out, on to the cotton balls. wearing a shirt to cover the breath from my face, i take off the foil from each jar, squirting that yummy b+spore into each jar. i only heated the needle for 2 out of 5 jars, hope it doesn't mold me in the ass .
then, i put the foil back on each jar, wrap tight, and put it back in my pc, lock it up and put it away! i'll check back on it every few days to see how it's going.
OBSERVATIONS: red hot needle? more like orange, but good enough i hope. criticize me plzzzzzz
one inoc site brought up a piece of verm into the needle, that's when i reheated the bastard. it's fine i hope? lolol
there is little to no air flow in the room i'm in, just as instructed. i'm pretty sure it went well, but time will tell, hopefully you guys will too!
wishwash
-------------------- life rolls on
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HoleSnype
I love me some me.



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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8568970 - 06/26/08 09:50 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sterilize the needle between jars.
Take the foil off and take them out of the PC. Put them on a shelf at room temp.
The foil can and will cause problems.
-------------------- "I'm sofa king we todd did." ~ Rick James
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


Registered: 05/24/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8569012 - 06/26/08 10:01 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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gotcha... any need to seal the inoc points with tape or anything?
-------------------- life rolls on
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HoleSnype
I love me some me.



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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8569023 - 06/26/08 10:04 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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As long as you have a verm barrier you are ok. Hopefully it's fine grade verm on top.
Jars need gas exchange.
-------------------- "I'm sofa king we todd did." ~ Rick James
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


Registered: 05/24/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8569033 - 06/26/08 10:06 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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ferti-lome? thats the brand i got a 10qt bagthere's some big chunks strewn about, but most pieces are fine
-------------------- life rolls on
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HoleSnype
I love me some me.



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Posts: 4,315
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8569041 - 06/26/08 10:08 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just don't flip it. Keep it straight up so you don't disrupt the verm barrier.
-------------------- "I'm sofa king we todd did." ~ Rick James
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


Registered: 05/24/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8569073 - 06/26/08 10:19 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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k thxxx. check back in the next few days i may get some pics of ma jars/contams. i'll keep it posted! still got like 6 syringes left i should get more jars
-------------------- life rolls on
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


Registered: 05/24/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8570534 - 06/27/08 10:17 AM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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day 1 of incubation: 12:16 pm, no signs of life yet, perhaps a speck of white splotchy. now, they have to be absolutely in darkness and at room temp. is a minute or so of light going to affect? i had to move them to a darker place today so they were out in the open for a bit.
-------------------- life rolls on
Edited by wishywashy (06/27/08 10:19 AM)
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MHbound
Ballin Out At All Cost


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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8570671 - 06/27/08 11:16 AM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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No a minute isn't going to hurt them. Some people on these boards don't keep them in complete dark as you should. It can affect the time. After about 3-5 days I check mine, and then after I see growth I check them everyday to make sure everything is going as it should. No problems there IMO.
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hxcjohn
Stranger

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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: MHbound]
#8570911 - 06/27/08 12:40 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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BrandNewbie: I don't think you advice was BS at all, just on the safe side. Is it going to mess anything up waiting a few more hours? No. So BrandNewbie, you keep on keeping on. wishywashy: It seems you haven't read much, or even watched a video. You ask alot of questions you can answer yourself with a little studying. Good job on getting your first jars going. Try not to check them every 5 minutes. Oh also make some LC so those syringes go further.
-------------------- Disclaimer: I do not buy, sell, cultivate, manufacture, or use any illegal substance. Any postings I make on this forum are purely for entertainment purposes. Any pictures that I may post have been created by artificial means from images gathered from the internet and other sources. Any statements made should not be considered truthful.
Edited by hxcjohn (06/27/08 12:53 PM)
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8583306 - 07/01/08 08:40 AM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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been 4 days since inoc.... wondering if i did something wrong, no mycelium yet. when i made the BRF cakes, i just mixed in the flour with dry verm at the same time. RoadKill did it differently but that wouldn't fuck the whole process, rite?
-------------------- life rolls on
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MHbound
Ballin Out At All Cost


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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8584041 - 07/01/08 01:14 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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As long as you sterilized no. 3-5 days is how long it generally takes to see growth. Just sit back. It could take a week.
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numonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!

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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: MHbound]
#8584074 - 07/01/08 01:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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You're going to need to develop some patience, guy. Sometimes it can take a week or two to show growth, depending on the particular strain and many other environmental conditions.
You did NOT seal the holes, correct? You don't want to do that, the verm layer will should keep out any contams that may work through the holes.
Gotta be patient buddy.
~Monk
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: numonkei]
#8587628 - 07/02/08 12:16 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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day 4 after inoculation:
w00t i see nice splotches on each of my 5 jars <3
i'm gonna check the contam forums cuz i'm curious
so i see this process taking at most 3 weeks, but is it dependent on how much sporejuice you use? also, i want to wait till all of the jars are colonizing so i can dunk n roll them all at once.
-------------------- life rolls on
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MHbound
Ballin Out At All Cost


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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8587832 - 07/02/08 01:26 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why don't you post them here, and we will tell you. You could also change your thread to be your new grow log. I would like to watch your stuff come along.
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


Registered: 05/24/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8604129 - 07/07/08 01:03 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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7/7/07 - 1.5 weeks after inoculation:
my jars are all at least 50% colonized. w00t and no contams yet either.
i have another b+ syringe that i want to put to a first attemptat bulk substrate growing. i'll be doing a BRFV substrate, not sure how to prep it though. any suggestions?
-------------------- life rolls on
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MHbound
Ballin Out At All Cost


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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8604210 - 07/07/08 01:33 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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With BRF the only thing you can do is make cakes. I tried to shake them one time very moderately to use similar to my grain jars, but it didn't work. There were too many little pieces that wouldn't get colonized properly...Which I scraped off, but were also wasted when you think about it.
Make cakes, crumble them up in a ziplock back(they are sterile out of the factory), and case them like you would any grain jar.
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: MHbound]
#8604273 - 07/07/08 01:54 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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case meaning line them with verm or something?
i haven't used a FC yet so i'm not sure whether to set it up for cakes or a tin of substrate brick
-------------------- life rolls on
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MHbound
Ballin Out At All Cost


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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8604364 - 07/07/08 02:29 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Since this is your first grow I would use the cakes. Casing can get tough, and definitely gets tough when it comes to contaminates.
Dunk your cakes in a bucket, and use something to hold them under water for...6-24 hours no more than 24. I usually use about 12-16 somewhere in there. This will rehydrate your cakes that it probably lost during the colonization.
Then take the cakes and roll them in dry vermiculite. It will increase your yields.
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PowerOfTheCoir
Newbie Sympathizer



Registered: 07/02/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8604765 - 07/07/08 04:25 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
wishywashy said: case meaning line them with verm or something?
i haven't used a FC yet so i'm not sure whether to set it up for cakes or a tin of substrate brick
You probably want to stick to the dunk and roll as MHbound said. If you want a refresher on birthing and the dunk and roll, check out RR's videos on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHJQrsZFQdE
You're past the first part of the videos since you've already made and injected your jars, but the rest will be informative. Theres even a simple to make FC in there. It's a 4 part series, so make sure you see the whole thing. Just skip past the jar prep if you want.
The casing method that someone alluded to in the "crumble and case" method. It has risks and advantages, but by itself it just isn't, in my opinion, worth the effort and risk. If you mix the pieces of crumbled cake with some nutritious bulk substrate, like poo, straw, coir, or a mix, you can greatly increase your yield. Again there are risks and it may not be a good way to start.
As far as your FC goes, you don't need to pick whether it will be for cakes or tins/trays. Cakes need 99-100% humiditiy. Cased subs can get away with a little less, but they won't mind high humidity either. They'll actually appreciate it. If you make a good basic FC, like the Shotgun FC from the video, you can use it for cakes or put tins/trays in there. The idea that casings need lower humidity is outdated but still gets passed around with all of the old teks.
-------------------- Check out my first ever TEK!
Shroom capsules with the Cap-M-Quik (pics)
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: MHbound]
#8605241 - 07/07/08 06:26 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MHbound said: Since this is your first grow I would use the cakes.
 PLEASE for the love of whatever useless Deity you waste your time worshiping read the link in my Sig and than in that link click the other link in my post there for my opinions on cakes,I know its only my own personal opinion and not everyone agrees with me but as far as I'm concerned it is that sentence right there that makes half the people who try their hand at mycology never ever try it again and it should never ever be said to someone who is just trying to learn the ropes,ya learn the ropes making cakes and you will find yourself using said rope to hang yourself from the ceiling fan 
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MHbound
Ballin Out At All Cost


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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: Blutjager]
#8605601 - 07/07/08 07:40 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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I feel you Blutjager, but I really don't know if he is ready to go to casing. I would hate for his first grow to be a failure. When you add casing you just add another chance for contaminates.
I guess its really up to him...If you want to risk it for more mushrooms then go for it, however, I probably wouldn't. I would probably continue what you are doing, and the next grow continue with cakes...BUT start trying some new things along with the cakes. Such as Blutjager's LC TEK he has there, and some other 50/50 TEK's. Actually, you could go ahead and get you a nice LC going for next round. Hell you could go ahead, and start a few grain jars. I would say...Start with rye. I find it the most forgiving...That or WBS(Wild bird seed).
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PowerOfTheCoir
Newbie Sympathizer



Registered: 07/02/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: Blutjager]
#8605611 - 07/07/08 07:43 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Blutjager said:
Quote:
MHbound said: Since this is your first grow I would use the cakes.
 PLEASE for the love of whatever useless Deity you waste your time worshiping read the link in my Sig and than in that link click the other link in my post there for my opinions on cakes,I know its only my own personal opinion and not everyone agrees with me but as far as I'm concerned it is that sentence right there that makes half the people who try their hand at mycology never ever try it again and it should never ever be said to someone who is just trying to learn the ropes,ya learn the ropes making cakes and you will find yourself using said rope to hang yourself from the ceiling fan 
The advantages of cakes for beginners are as follows (in ascending order of importance):
1)They don't require a pressure cooker. If you have a PC, this is irrelevant, but if you are just starting out and don't want to make the investment, cakes are the way to go.
2)Cakes are easier for newbies since they require less judgment. Making cakes just involves clearly stated amounts of ingredients. Most other steps also involve little judgment. Dunk for 24 hours, roll in verm and let whatever sticks stay, put on 3-5 inches of wet perlite. These directions involve little interpretation. When people get creative, they know they are stepping outside of the tek. With grain and casings, you have lots of relative amounts. What does fully hydrated grain look like? It's tough if you haven't seen it before. What is field capacity? It takes judgment based on experience and it's a lot to ask new people to make these calls.
3) Most importantly, cakes can be made with complete, well-known, start-to-harvest single teks. Whether people use the PF Tek, MMGG, or RR's youtube videos, they have a clear map from start to finish and the techniques are very reliable. Just about every failure of these methods can be traced to a decision to divert from the tek and use something else. With grain and casings, users typically have to carefully select teks for every step of the way and understand which teks work together and which don't. Many of the teks involve techniques that have been since debunked or at least strongly questioned. Growers with a little experience can do a decent job putting together the steps in the right way, weeding out the suspect advice, and then executing a successful grow. New users often use some of the first information they find and that's why so much time is spent on this board squashing out the same bad info over and over again. Sadly it's not because newbies aren't searching first - it's because they search and find outdated info.
There are some complete grain teks, but again, they usually advocate very controversial techniques without advising users of the possible downsides. Your favorite grain tek seems to be the one by Magash. Magash is an awesome poster and I can't touch his level of success, so this criticism is meant with the greatest respect. In his tek, he advocates 50/50 casing with coir/verm. Although this can be successful, there seems to be an emerging consensus that coir casings are prone to overlay. He advocates bottom casing and top casing layer as thick as the substrate. Bottom casing is now mostly frowned upon and casing layers seem to be a lot thinner in most grows, with a 1:4 ratio being a common general rule. I think that his technique works well for some people because he inadvertently created a bulk substrate instead of a casing layer since he put so much nutritious coir in there. His Martha design is great, but can you really expect most newbies to shell out enough money for a martha, two humdifieres, and the materials for the racks? If they haven't had their first grow yet, they probably want to save the bigger investments until they are sure they like growing. This means they have to look outside the tek for a critical component and have a chance to insert bad advice. Magash got great results and is an excellent person to learn from, but sending a newbie directly to his tek will just get them lost.
I read the links. From what I can see, in the first link a new user used cakes for his first grow, had a syringe with a mysterious blue tint, and tried to mix-and-match parts of cake teks. I looked up his other posts and he ended up only losing one cake to contamination. He didn't get a huge yield, but it was okay and included a nice 50g single fruit. He had problems and got frustrated, but he by no means gave up and posted another grow log (this time after moving up to rye) so he definitely didn't quit after cakes. He did have some big problems with the rye though.
Now I know that the yield from cakes isn't usually impressive (although Magash's cake yield is respectable). this is fine for a newbie though. As long as they don't have dreams of becoming some shroom-growing drug lord with their first yield, they'll be fine. They'll get enough for their own use and a few friends. They'll know if they want to pursue the hobby or not. They will have learned a basic tek that they can then modify to whatever extent they think they can handle. When they encounter new techniques, they can understand their relevance since they understand the old technique that they were meant to improve.
Some people can definitely start with grains and casing. These are people who are willing to do a ton of reading first though, and they should be able to perform some critical analysis. To say that this is for everyone, though, I believe is a mistake.
-------------------- Check out my first ever TEK!
Shroom capsules with the Cap-M-Quik (pics)
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mrjim202000


Registered: 02/20/04
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: PowerOfTheCoir]
#8605696 - 07/07/08 08:07 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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on a side note (if you can rant so can I) I am working on a grain TEK for the simpletons and the lazy alike. I will post as I get conclusive results but I do have spotty internet connection so those really interested PM me and I will get back to you first. sorry I meant this not as a hijack but as a side post that seemed to fit
peace
-------------------- dont tell lies, there will be less to remember
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: PowerOfTheCoir]
#8605699 - 07/07/08 08:08 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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As I said,Its just my opinion and many people do not agree with it,I just wanted him to read it to see that not everyone agrees that cakes are the way to start,I was led to believe this and I sure wish someone would have pointed me in a better direction before I knew any better.
I definitely agree that cakes are the only way to go if you have no PC(I also think if you have no PC you shouldn't even bother until you get one)
I link to Magash's rye tek because it was the 1st thing that worked for me,after a few good grows under your belt you learn your style of growing and you do things different,for example I don't soak in individual jars,I soak all at once in buckets,I NEVER used a bottom casing layer and always only case with MGMC.
When it all comes down to it anyone will tell you there are a million different variations as to how people grow mushrooms,some people love one thing and hate another and the next person is the complete opposite,God I have even seen people say they like that ghastly polyfill over tyvek
I just wanted to make sure someone showed him he doesn't HAVE to grow cakes 1st like everyone usually foolishly leads newbs to believe.
Call me lazy or at least just American But I'm all about doing the least amount of work for the best possible results and in my experience growing cakes is not only the complete opposite of this but they are a downright disappointment.
There is a reason experienced growers usually(Of coarse there are exceptions)don't grow cakes....Its cause they have learned their lesson and they know better
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: mrjim202000]
#8605701 - 07/07/08 08:09 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
mrjim202000 said: on a side note (if you can rant so can I) I am working on a grain TEK for the simpletons and the lazy alike. I will post as I get conclusive results but I do have spotty internet connection so those really interested PM me and I will get back to you first. sorry I meant this not as a hijack but as a side post that seemed to fit
peace
I think we both hijacked it..... Sorry
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PowerOfTheCoir
Newbie Sympathizer



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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: Blutjager]
#8605787 - 07/07/08 08:30 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, I'd say we have this thread thoroughly hijacked. I want a suitcase full of marked spore prints and a laminar flow hood before I return it.
-------------------- Check out my first ever TEK!
Shroom capsules with the Cap-M-Quik (pics)
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Hattori Hanzo
Are You Experienced?



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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: PowerOfTheCoir]
#8605873 - 07/07/08 08:51 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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BAHHHA HA. Awesome! I'm trying all the above just to see for myself. Blutjager's signature is what got me to even attempt grain (and am having issues but that is probably me). I love the passion here guys. Just thought I'd say so. 

-------------------- First Grow Log
GT&TX DoubleTubs
Malabars and Hawaiians
Keep your ideals high enough to inspire you and low enough to encourage you. --unknown
 
Edited by Hattori Hanzo (07/07/08 08:58 PM)
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SelfDestruct
noobzilla

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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: Hattori Hanzo]
#8605913 - 07/07/08 09:01 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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this makes me feel miserable about having made cakes now... blah... next time... bulk!
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


Registered: 05/24/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8616154 - 07/10/08 04:27 AM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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my jars are all to be completely colonized by the weekend. i've got 5 uncontaminated cakes! gonna be doing the dunk n roll then put it ina perlite humidified cooler. how long until fruiting after the dunk n roll? i've been waiting to eat these bad boys since before i ordered from ralph
-------------------- life rolls on
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MHbound
Ballin Out At All Cost


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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8616170 - 07/10/08 04:49 AM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hm...If you keep the conditions perfect then in a couple of weeks you can have fruits to eat.
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PowerOfTheCoir
Newbie Sympathizer



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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: SelfDestruct]
#8616370 - 07/10/08 07:19 AM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SelfDestruct said: this makes me feel miserable about having made cakes now... blah... next time... bulk!
Unless you wanted to make a commercial yield, don't beat yourself up. Cakes suck for getting great yields based on the amount of work put it, but they still do a great job of giving enough for "personal exploration." I'm loving WBS now that I "moved on up" though.
PS - I can't remember if you've birthed your cakes yet, but if you haven't, look into a small bulk grow. You can crumble your cakes and spawn that to coir/coffee and get a big increase in yield. If you have a big tub w/perlite, you can even split your grow and have cakes next to a bulk tray or two.
-------------------- Check out my first ever TEK!
Shroom capsules with the Cap-M-Quik (pics)
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8629573 - 07/13/08 02:42 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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day whatevs.. lost track! 4 out of 5 jars colonized completely. going to initiate the dunk n roll tonite. should i be sterile while dunkin and rollin? i could at least wear gloves to not get yucky mycelium all over maself. \
-------------------- life rolls on
Edited by wishywashy (07/13/08 02:49 PM)
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PowerOfTheCoir
Newbie Sympathizer



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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8630306 - 07/13/08 05:45 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
wishywashy said: day whatevs.. lost track! 4 out of 5 jars colonized completely. going to initiate the dunk n roll tonite. should i be sterile while dunkin and rollin? i could at least wear gloves to not get yucky mycelium all over maself. \
If you haven't birthed them yet, it may be best to hold off. After full colonization, something is still going on in there. The mycellium is digesting it's food and really getting a good hold on that substrate. This will take about a week, during which, whether birthed or not, they won't start pinning. If they are birthed, dunked and rolled now, they'll spend that week being exposed to contaminants and evaporating off their water supply (which can only go down after reaching such a high level from the dunk). That's why many people reccommend birthing after 100% colonization + 1 week. It won't fruit sooner or later, but the cake's long term health is likely to be a little better.
If you've already birthed, oh well. It's not a huge deal and the cakes usually do fine as long as they reach 100%.
To answer your question - The cakes, once colonized, are contaminant resistant and will be exposed to contaminants in your terrarium anyway. For this reason, total sterility is not needed and rarely even attempted.
Very good cleanliness, however, is strongly recommended. Wash your hands/arms, clean out your dunking container throroughly, clean your workspace. Try not to work near a persistantly moist area where mold is abundant, or next to an open trash can. Dunk water should be clean - either fresh tap water if you trust it (hard water is a plus) or bottled spring water. Distilled water is the least ideal clean water source since mycellium LIKES all of the minerals that make water "hard."
Gloves are optional, but if you're not using them (I often don't for this stage) scrub your hands with soap thoroughly. Pick up one without gloves though, since once you actually feel a colonized cake, you'll see why there's nothing yucky to avoid. Yes, it's a fungus. That makes alot of people think of something gooey, spongey, and generally nasty. It's actually alot closer to something like a raw button mushroom, which you probably wouldn't use gloves to throw in a salad. If you do where gloves, do it to be extra protective of your cakes.
-------------------- Check out my first ever TEK!
Shroom capsules with the Cap-M-Quik (pics)
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 94
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8650248 - 07/18/08 09:10 AM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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i may have contams... 3 of my jars are showing black stuff between the verm layer and the substrate in the jars. this would make sense, because i sterilized the needle for only 2 of 5 B+ jars i inoculated. is there a way to save these cakes? i will get surgical if i must!
-------------------- life rolls on
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MHbound
Ballin Out At All Cost


Registered: 09/24/07
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8651139 - 07/18/08 01:31 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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I wouldn't fuck with the black stuff.
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


Registered: 05/24/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: MHbound]
#8651849 - 07/18/08 04:26 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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yes i disposed of that shit. going to be doing 2 poorman's terrariums wit this batch. now with sterilizing the black mold jars over again, i didn't even store them in the same spot as my incubation spot. i plan to boiling the black jars for 60 mins!
-------------------- life rolls on
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MHbound
Ballin Out At All Cost


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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8651906 - 07/18/08 04:37 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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This is probably considered overkill, but I like to put bleach water in the jars and let it sit for a few hours. Then I boil the jars...Or pressure cook, either way is fine.
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beengonetoolong
Gravy Train Conductor



Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 523
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: MHbound]
#8651980 - 07/18/08 04:57 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
MHbound said: This is probably considered overkill, but I like to put bleach water in the jars and let it sit for a few hours. Then I boil the jars...Or pressure cook, either way is fine.
Wash em out with water and and throw em in the dishwasher bro, save some time

--------------------
 
Is there life after death? Trespass and find out.
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: beengonetoolong]
#8654100 - 07/19/08 05:00 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would pressure cook any contaminated jars before opening them,even if you open them outdoors you still may bring in a bunch of potential contamination on your clothing
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


Registered: 05/24/08
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8671115 - 07/23/08 10:21 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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i'm seeing pinning! i've got 2 poormans' terrariums with humidified perlite rockin! so far just 1 has little b+ fruits. i've counted like 5 baby mushies! nice
-------------------- life rolls on
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wishywashy
shroom padowan


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 94
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8688612 - 07/27/08 02:42 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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now, one of my cakes produced 1 large fruit. it grew so fast between last night and today that it tripled in size and tipped the cake on it's side. it baffles me how little light shrooms neeed in order to be confused about which way is up. the fruit was growing down to the corner of the FC in an awkward way. it grew so vehemently that it also bruised the cap. is it still straight to ingest? i'm gonna check the contam forums
-------------------- life rolls on
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: omgot all my stuff ready... final prep questions everybody! [Re: wishywashy]
#8691600 - 07/28/08 08:52 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
wishywashy said: Is it still straight to ingest? i'm gonna check the contam forums
Eat it,its fine
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