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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8581271 - 06/30/08 06:24 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

grasping at straws...

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8581315 - 06/30/08 06:34 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Burden on proof is on you, sweetheart.

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8581447 - 06/30/08 07:00 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

omfg


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8581483 - 06/30/08 07:14 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
what is Obama Hiding?





dead hookers in the closet

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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8581558 - 06/30/08 07:33 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Dead alien hookers, no less!    ...and Tom Cruise.


--------------------


I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: thedefone]
    #8582322 - 06/30/08 11:05 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

We all know tom cruise is in the closet...

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8810723 - 08/22/08 11:43 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:

What an absolutely Republican tactic.

And you morons wonder why everyone thinks you're a bunch of sleaze-balls.

Redstorm is certainly right.  It reeks of desperation.






Obama Sued in Philadelphia Federal Court on Grounds he is Constitutionally Ineligible...


Clinton supporter sues Obama on grounds he is constitutional ineligble for Presidency



A prominent Philadelphia attorney and Hillary Clinton supporter filed suit this afternoon in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania against Illinois Sen. Barack Obama and the Democratic National Committee. The action seeks an injunction preventing the senator from continuing his candidacy and a court order enjoining the DNC from nominating him next week, all on grounds that Sen. Obama is constitutionally ineligible to run for and hold the office of President of the United States.


Phillip Berg, the filing attorney, is a former gubernatorial and senatorial candidate, former chair of the Democratic Party in Montgomery (PA) County, former member of the Democratic State Committee, and former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania. According to Berg, he filed the suit--just days before the DNC is to hold its nominating convention in Denver--for the health of the Democratic Party.


Berg cited a number of unanswered questions regarding the Illinois senator's background, and in today's lawsuit maintained that Sen. Obama is not a natural born U.S. citizen or that, if he ever was, he lost his citizenship when he was adopted in Indonesia. Berg also cites what he calls "dual loyalties" due to his citizenship and ties with Kenya and Indonesia.

Even if Sen. Obama can prove his U.S. citizenship, Berg stated, citing the senator's use of a birth certificate from the state of Hawaii verified as a forgery by three independent document forensic experts, the issue of "multi-citizenship with responsibilities owed to and allegiance to other countries" remains on the table.

In the lawsuit, Berg states that Sen. Obama was born in Kenya, and not in Hawaii as the senator maintains. Before giving birth, according to the lawsuit, Obama's mother traveled to Kenya with his father but was prevented from flying back to Hawaii because of the late stage of her pregnancy, "apparently a normal restriction to avoid births during a flight." As Sen. Obama's own paternal grandmother, half-brother and half-sister have also claimed, Berg maintains that Stanley Ann Dunham--Obama's mother--gave birth to little Barack in Kenya and subsequently flew to Hawaii to register the birth.

Berg cites inconsistent accounts of Sen. Obama's birth, including reports that he was born at two separate hospitals--Kapiolani Hospital and Queens Hospital--in Honolulu, as well a profound lack of birthing records for Stanley Ann Dunham, though simple "registry of birth" records for Barack Obama are available in a Hawaiian public records office.

Should Sen. Obama truly have been born in Kenya, Berg writes, the laws on the books at the time of his birth hold that U.S. citizenship may only pass to a child born overseas to a U.S. citizen parent and non-citizen parent if the former was at least 19 years of age. Sen. Obama's mother was only 18 at the time. Therefore, because U.S. citizenship could not legally be passed on to him, Obama could not be registered as a "natural born" citizen and would therefore be ineligible to seek the presidency pursuant to Article II, Section 1 of the United States Constitution.

Moreover, even if Sen. Obama could have somehow been deemed "natural born," that citizenship was lost in or around 1967 when he and his mother took up residency in Indonesia, where Stanley Ann Dunham married Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian citizen. Berg also states that he possesses copies of Sen. Obama's registration to Fransiskus Assisi School In Jakarta, Indonesia which clearly show that he was registered under the name "Barry Soetoro" and his citizenship listed as Indonesian.

The Hawaiian birth certificate, Berg says, is a forgery. In the suit, the attorney states that the birth certificate on record is a forgery, has been identified as such by three independent document forensic experts, and actually belonged to Maya Kasandra Soetoro, Sen. Obama's half-sister.

"Voters donated money, goods and services to elect a nominee and were defrauded by Sen. Obama's lies and obfuscations," Berg stated. "If the DNC officers ... had performed one ounce of due diligence we would not find ourselves in this emergency predicament, one week away from making a person the nominee who has lost their citizenship as a child and failed to even perform the basic steps of regaining citizenship as prescribed by constitutional laws."

"It is unfair to the country," he continued, "for candidates of either party to become the nominee when there is any question of the ability to serve if elected."


http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20080822_Clout__Law_tells_conventioneers_to_get_the_fork_out.html



PHILIP J. BERG v. BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA - Complaint

https://ecf.paed.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/ShowIndex.pl



Defendant: BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, a/k/a BARRY SOETORO, a/k/a BARRY OBAMA , a/k/a BARACK DUNHAM, a/k/a BARRY DUNHAM,



http://www.hillaryproject.com/index.php?/en/story-details/clinton_supporter_sues_obama_on_grounds_he_is_constitutional_ineligble_for_/











This guy is a Democrat and Hillary Supporter :rofl2::rofl2:

:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:




Democrats!:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Edited by lonestar2004 (08/22/08 02:07 PM)

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8811007 - 08/22/08 12:40 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I don't understand the issue here.

They say even if he was a natural born citezin he lost his citezinship.


So what?

It seems to me the constitution only requires the president to be 35, a resident of some years of the US, and a natural born citezin.


So what does it matter if he lost his citezinship?



And how again do they claim he lost his citezinship?  Just cuz he lived in indonesia?  So what?  I don't get this at all, and either the lawsuit is REALLY stupid, the law has been interpreted very strangely, or the article in the above is poor.


Anyone want to fill me in?

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: johnm214]
    #8811119 - 08/22/08 01:02 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Yea it sounds weak and probably has no legs, but  throughout this thread a number of posters bitched and whined about ignorant Republicans bringing this shit up and IRONICALLY ITS A FUCKING DEMOCRAT THATS SUING OBAMA OVER THIS ISSUE!


And all that this DEMOCRAT requests is that Barack Obama PROVE that he is eligible to be president of the United States....


Is that so unreasonable?????


Obama could have made this go away months ago!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8811167 - 08/22/08 01:13 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Yea it sounds weak and probably has no legs, but  throughout this thread a number of posters bitched and whined about ignorant Republicans bringing this shit up and IRONICALLY ITS A FUCKING DEMOCRAT THATS SUING OBAMA OVER THIS ISSUE!


And all that this DEMOCRAT requests is that Barack Obama PROVE that he is eligible to be president of the United States....


Is that so unreasonable?????


Obama could have made this go away months ago!





I agree that he should release his birth certificate, if he has not done so, to public inspection, but whatever... I think a law should be passed making federal candidates birth certificates open to public inspection, contrary state laws notwithstanding, and making those without birth certificates file whatever proof they have for public inspection.

No reason not to.


That said, I would be totally shocked if it turned out barack is not eligible.  He was born in Hawaii, forged certificate or not, and that's good enough.  I'm sure he can get plausible witnesses to this effect to sign affidavits, and so what could anyone do to contravert that?  Nothing I'd imagine.

I don't think that a democrat is suing demonstrates anything other than the fact that some people are against the obama nomination, and they aren't all republicans.


I certainly don't think its wrong of republicans or anyone to ask for proof, but I think it is stupid the way this has led to speculation and erroneous legal presumptions in the public forums.

That a democrat sued him has nothing to do with the merits of the republicans that are taking similar positions.  They are all against obama's nomination, and are one in the same.


And you won't find me defending a party, except for perhaps the libertarian party and only as a vague notion of the relativly clear ideals a vote for their candidates endorses.


Screw the dems and repubs....  Arguing about the immorality of one side compared to the other is inevitably self-defeating as they are all the same in tactics and almost the same in political ideology (big government, high taxes, federal preemption, federal invasion of your life. ...)


Vote third party.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: johnm214]
    #8811264 - 08/22/08 01:29 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

The hearing has been scheduled on the matter for 2:00pm today.


The judge assigned to the case--the Hon. R. Barclay Surrick--was appointed to the federal bench by President William Jefferson Clinton.

"As of two hours ago, Barack Obama's "Fight the Smears" Web site removed his birth certificate from its pages, only to put it back up a little while later. Again, regardless of the outcome of this legal action, Obama's failure to address this issue should draw a fair amount of skepticism but has not. Perhaps we can thank the mainstream media's overprotective nature for that."


UPDATE:


The temporary restraining order was denied by the Hon. R. Barclay Surrick.

but the exhibits have been taken into evidence and Judge Surrick has decided to leave the case open, allowing subject to once again be brought forth once all parties are served.


All related pleadings and documents can be found at

http://www.obamacrimes.com/



Edited by lonestar2004 (08/22/08 03:42 PM)

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Invisiblehamandcheese
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8829053 - 08/26/08 03:10 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

please allow me to preface that i am neither a republican nor democratic. and i only support third parties on the basis of someday having the realistic ability to chose from the lesser of 3 evil as opposed to two. and i am asking these questions regardless Obama's politics.

Is it really so bad to ask for a presidential candidate to be able to sufficiently prove that he is in fact a US citizen?
maybe he was born in Hawaii? is that alone ALWAYS grounds enough for eligibility?

maybe i just don't know enough about obama's life history but the way i see it its seems completely reasonable to at the very least have him be able to sufficiently verify his naturalized citizenship. that seems like a logical starting point.

anyone care to vote for John Walker Lindh? sure hes a legal US citizens but are his interests in favor of American values? I'm exaggerating for effect for those morons who wouldn't get it unless i write this and probably will still bitch about my comparisons. but I'm simply saying that under some circumstances a naturalized citizen forfeits his eligibility for the presidency... whether Obama falls into this category for whatever reason is up for debate and should be debated, investigated, and considered. maybe a vote for Gov. Arnold suits you better?

if you don't take a candidates life history in to account you a fucking fool. We all no they pump out lies, and tell people what they want to hear. he doesn't have a very long political career by comparison so we are force to pursue other avenues to put together a decent picture of what his values, ideas and ideals may be.

believe me i HOPE he's legit... but I'm not willing to just "take his word for it".

whether ill vote for him is not my concern, my concern is that if it is not verified, and proven a forgery, just before the election or worse after being elected(I'm not assuming hes gonna win just a "if" case) it would probably mark the beginning of the democratic party's dissolution.

then again it may or may not a three party system that much more likely to arise.

if you going to ignore the regulations set forth for the presidential eligibility, you may as well throw out everything else our fore fathers wrote and get ready to work on a federally controlled commune.

only in America could a ineligible candidate potentially be elected President, despite there specifically being rules against it, even be a remote possibility.

PLEASE! OBAMA! PLEASE VERIFY YOUR SHIT!
so i can go back to having my distaste for you being purely made of political views.


--------------------

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: hamandcheese]
    #8829218 - 08/26/08 04:48 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

> maybe he was born in Hawaii? is that alone ALWAYS grounds enough for eligibility?

Yep, since 1868, at least.  See the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution:
Quote:

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

...





--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: hamandcheese]
    #8829563 - 08/26/08 08:22 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hamandcheese said:


believe me i HOPE he's legit... but I'm not willing to just "take his word for it".







good post. and i agree i hope he's legit.

I honestly think he is legit. its just IMO the birth certificate he put on his website was a fake.


why?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflinePOLAR0ID
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8830909 - 08/26/08 02:10 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Are you still arguing about this false bullshit? I mean, really... ANYONE can nab a photo on "obamacrimes" and photoshop that as much as they want, too.

People are entitled to their own opinion, but more and more people think they are entitled to their own fact.  :bye:

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: POLAR0ID]
    #8830925 - 08/26/08 02:12 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

are you really a woman? 

I don't think we have any womenfolks posting in the political forum.  Since ron paul dropped out our only woman left...

Nice to have some new blood :thumbup:

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: POLAR0ID]
    #8830957 - 08/26/08 02:20 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

POLAR0ID said:
Are you still arguing about this false bullshit? I mean, really... ANYONE can nab a photo on "obamacrimes" and photoshop that as much as they want, too.

People are entitled to their own opinion, but more and more people think they are entitled to their own fact.  :bye:





i never said Hi? :methisgood:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Invisiblehamandcheese
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: Seuss]
    #8831027 - 08/26/08 02:35 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I knew some one would pull out the 14th specifically the citizenship clause. which was written to give former slave citizenship and ensure that anyone born on US soil is therefore subject to US jurisdictions. It does not specifically deal with presidential /office eligibility. you completely missed my point. which is that if there is sufficient evidence of conflicting or partially conflicting dual loyalties that may be grounds to exclude someone from office. however section for is written specifically with office eligibility in mind.

No one shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.


now do i believe that Obama falls into this category? no BUT if there were sufficient evidence on the contrary that he did that would be sufficient to exclude him.

in order to be eligible for president one must be:
a "natural-born citizen" of the United States of America.
be at least 35 years of age.
have held permanent residency in the United States for at least fourteen years.
and not held the position for more than 6 years.

however there are some circumstances in which someone meets those requirements but is considered ineligible.

for instance such similarly to the John Walker Lindh case.
some one born on US soil to US citizen parents.
lives in this country for at least 14 years.
moves away and joins a rebel group specific with dissent toward the United states government.
upon returning sometime after they reach the age of 35.

this person fits all of the general requirements but is still ineligible to hold  a position in a government office. because they either legally or by way of actions have infacxt relinquished there citizenship.

again i don't not have reason to believe that Obama falls under this category, i was merely making a point. however i would still like to ,beyond a shadow of a doubt, know that he does in fact meet all of the other requirements.


--------------------

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: hamandcheese]
    #8831043 - 08/26/08 02:39 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

are you in law school?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: hamandcheese]
    #8831063 - 08/26/08 02:42 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hamandcheese said:
I knew some one would pull out the 14th specifically the citizenship clause. which was written to give former slave citizenship and ensure that anyone born on US soil is therefore subject to US jurisdictions. It does not specifically deal with presidential /office eligibility. you completely missed my point. which is that if there is sufficient evidence of conflicting or partially conflicting dual loyalties that may be grounds to exclude someone from office. however section for is written specifically with office eligibility in mind.

in order to be eligible for president one must be:
a "natural-born citizen" of the United States of America.
be at least 35 years of age.
have held permanent residency in the United States for at least fourteen years.
and not held the position for more than 6 years.

however there are some circumstances in which someone meets those requirements but is considered ineligible.

for instance such similarly to the John Walker Lindh case.
some one born on US soil to US citizen parents.
lives in this country for at least 14 years.
moves away and joins a rebel group specific with dissent toward the United states government.
upon returning sometime after they reach the age of 35.

this person fits all of the general requirements but is still ineligible to hold  a position in a government office. because they either legally or by way of actions have infacxt relinquished there citizenship.

again i don't not have reason to believe that Obama falls under this category, i was merely making a point. however i would still like to ,beyond a shadow of a doubt, know that he does in fact meet all of the other requirements.




Are you arguing legally or ideally?

Cuz I don't follow you.  Obama was born in a state he's a natural born citezin.

Legislative intent is nonsense, and is used for all manner of nefarious deeds.  Dangerous stuff, like allowing lonestar to say gays don't have equal protection, and presumably women and white folks either, cuz that amendment was intended to protect blacks, apparently.  You think the law that was ratified and voted upon should not govern, but the unstated and undiscernable motivation of the folks who wrote and passed it?  How do we tell what that is?  Where in the constitution does it say that anything other than the law is authoritiative?

Free speech was also passed to provide political, news, and religious freedoms.  So is porn, tabloids, and websites like this exempt from the protection?

Does the fourth amendment not apply to guilty folks, cuz we are only interested in securing proper citizens' rights?

Dangerous and foolish road if your arguing legality, imo.

Saying john walker shouldn't be able to run is silly.  Presuming he's still a citizen, let him. 


What exception could their possibly be to Obama's citizenship?  Born in the states, 35, lived here enough time, good enough.



A great read for those interested, scalia on legislative intent:

Quote:

    I concur in the opinion of the Court with the exception of its discussion of legislative history in Part III–A–2. For reasons I have expressed elsewhere, I believe that the only language that constitutes “a Law” within the meaning of the Bicameralism and Presentment Clause of Article I, §7, and hence the only language adopted in a fashion that entitles it to our attention, is the text of the enacted statute. See, e.g.,  Conroy v. Aniskoff, 507 U. S. 511, 518–528 (1993) (Scalia, J., concurring in judgment)...

    It may seem that there is no harm in using committee reports and other such sources when they are merely in accord with the plain meaning of the Act. But this sort of intellectual piling-on has addictive consequences. To begin with, it accustoms us to believing that what is said by a single person in a floor debate or by a committee report represents the view of Congress as a whole—so that we sometimes even will say (when referring to a floor statement and committee report) that “Congress has expressed” thus-and-so. See, e.g., Conroy, supra, at 516–517. There is no basis either in law or in reality for this naive belief. Moreover, if legislative history is relevant when it confirms the plain meaning of the statutory text, it should also be relevant when it contradicts the plain meaning, thus rendering what is plain ambiguous. Because the use of legislative history is illegitimate and ill advised in the interpretation of any statute—and especially a statute that is clear on its face—I do not join this portion of the Court’s opinion.



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