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Innominate


Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 2,136
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: Madtowntripper]
#8565818 - 06/26/08 08:24 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said: Link to Obama's Birth Certificate.
Next Republican Smear Tactic?
Who's got it?
Phred? Lonestar?
That's the same image that's in the site the OP is referencing.
I despise McCain and I couldn't give two fucks about Obama but I find this whole situation pretty ridiculous for both sides. It's even more ridiculous since Obama's campaign can easily end this rumor, if it is just a rumor, in an instant.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: afoaf]
#8565820 - 06/26/08 08:24 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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hmm, well that one seems to have seal-like indentations. Perhaps florida doesn't require certified copies to be signed?
I guess that's the other issue, what is a certified copy? Does it have to have a signerature? It appears there is a time stamp on the "back" of the document as well. Why? Perhaps there is no sig requirement and its simply time stamped and dated on the back?
Zooming in on the cert. on obama's website it's hard to tell if there's a raised seal or not. Hard to tell, certainly possible. On the Kos version one is readily apparent.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: Innominate]
#8565891 - 06/26/08 08:54 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Innominate said:
Quote:
Madtowntripper said: Link to Obama's Birth Certificate.
Next Republican Smear Tactic?
Who's got it?
Phred? Lonestar?
That's the same image that's in the site the OP is referencing.
Obama's campaign can easily end this rumor, if it is just a rumor, in an instant.
and the same fake Document STILL on Obama's official website...
http://www.barackobama.com/images/fts/BO_birthcert.jpg
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8565893 - 06/26/08 08:55 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
YawningAnus said: Maybe the Obama campaign is trying to draw Fox and other anti-obama new sources into a trap so that they are ostracized for the debacle that ensues when Obama produces a real birth certificate.
Yep, maybe he's waiting for FOX news to run with it.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: lonestar2004]
#8565933 - 06/26/08 09:15 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said:
Quote:
Innominate said:
Quote:
Madtowntripper said: Link to Obama's Birth Certificate.
Next Republican Smear Tactic?
Who's got it?
Phred? Lonestar?
That's the same image that's in the site the OP is referencing.
Obama's campaign can easily end this rumor, if it is just a rumor, in an instant.
and the same fake Document STILL on Obama's official website...
http://www.barackobama.com/images/fts/BO_birthcert.jpg
1. How do you know it is fake?
Even presuming Seuss is correct and all certificates must be certified, what does this mean in hawaii? Must there be signeratures for certificates in hawaii? I don't believe mine has a sig, but I"d have to check.
There is clearly a date stamp on the back, or at least appears that way, so perhaps the seal was likewise applied to the back for some reason.
The image madtown posted could be from the same original picture, could it not? It could certainly be of the same document. In madtown's picture there does appear to be clear raised-seal marks. In obama's version there appears to be nothin either way from my glances- too low res, could be sealed, could have none. Do you disagree?
2. How do you know the image is not from the same picture?
There seems to be nothing obvious to me which would suggest madtown's picture could be excluded from being derived from the original picture taken of the document that gave rise to Obama's version. Did I miss something? Why do you conclude the image is not "the same" and derived from the same parent, only scaled down?
In the end it would be pretty crazy if Obama wasn't really born in hawaii, so the whole thing is kinda pointless, though I agree he should have to prove, before being on the primary ballots, his eligibility.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: johnm214]
#8565962 - 06/26/08 09:30 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
I do agree that what Obama has actually posted on his webiste is pretty weird. Is their evidence this document is actually linked to by obama's site? Or did someone just find it there? In the end its irrelevant, but pretty interesting, as it appears whatever he posted has been altered beyond simply blocking out the cert. number.
I agree with phred: both candidates should have to file proof of citizenship, ideally a certified certificate, as part of the process to appear on the ballots.
yep, very interesting.
its on an Official Obama website. http://www.barackobama.com/images/fts/BO_birthcert.jpg
And Obama's campaign claims suspect/fake "birth certificate" as genuine item.
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12932.htm
"If Obama does not produce definitive proof of his “natural born” American citizenship with original, verifiable documents, he will be setting the stage for a very public battle over his personal credibility, the basic legitimacy of his candidacy, and its possible criminality."
If Obama is not playing a GAME then this could get real interesting.
BTW Hillary supporters are all over this. No Quarters has the best info.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/20/obama%E2%80%99s-birth-certificate-the-problems/
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: johnm214]
#8565980 - 06/26/08 09:36 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I do not see a signature or a seal.
Again all Obama has to do is release the real documentation of his birth, or even the original printed version of the online document the campaign claims as genuine.....
its very easy.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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SoY
I am the LizardKing



Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: lonestar2004]
#8566039 - 06/26/08 10:06 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
How do you know it is fake?
You don't.
When it is proven fake by reputable sources with convincing evidence, feel free to gripe and whine all you want. As of now you cannot honestly say that you know this document is fake, just as I cannot honestly say I know that it is real.
This is entertaining. Lonestar the conspiracy theorist....
Quote:
both candidates should have to file proof of citizenship, ideally a certified certificate, as part of the process to appear on the ballots.
--------------------
   "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: SoY]
#8566194 - 06/26/08 10:57 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
SoY said:
This is entertaining. Lonestar the conspiracy theorist....
And who Doesn’t Love a Conspiracy?  
Is Obama's candidacy constitutional?
Secrecy over birth certificate, demand for 'natural-born' citizenship cited
Bloggers are raising questions about Illinois Sen. Barack Obama's qualifications to be U.S. president, because of the secrecy over his birth certificate and the requirement presidents be "natural-born" U.S. citizens.
Jim Geraghty, reporting on the Campaign Spot, a National Review blog, cited the "unlikely" but still circulating rumor that Obama was born not within the United States, but elsewhere, possibly Kenya.
Geraghty defined the concerns most clearly, stating: "If Obama were born outside the United States, one could argue that he would not meet the legal definition of natural-born citizen … because U.S. law at the time of his birth required his natural-born parent (his mother) to have resided in the United States for '10 years, at least [f]ive of which had to be after the age of 16.'"
He then points out Ann Dunham, Obama's mother, was 18 when Obama was born "so she wouldn't have met the requirement of five years after the age of 16."
Geraghty continues: " (Interestingly, apparently there isn't much paperwork on Obama's parents' marriage. 'Obama: From Promise to Power,' page. 27: 'Obama later confessed that he never searched for the government documents on the marriage, although Madelyn (Obama's maternal grandmother) insisted they were legally married.' Also note that Obama's father apparently was not legally divorced from his first wife back in Kenya at the time, a point of contention that ultimately led to their separation.
The reports released to date show Obama was born in Honolulu to Barack Hussein Obama Sr., of Nyangoma-Kogelo, Kenya, and Ann Dunham, of Wichita, Kan.
According to FindLaw.com, which is cited by Geraghty, the requirements that were in force from Dec. 24, 1952 to Nov. 13, 1986, encompassing the time of Obama's birth, state, "If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least 10 years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16."
Obama's father, a student sent to the United States from Africa, lived several places in the United States while attending class. He then returned to his homeland. Obama's mother later married another man and moved to Indonesia.
Geraghty said the Obama campaign could "debunk" the rumors about his birth simply by releasing a copy of his birth certificate, but the campaign has so far chosen not to do that.
"The campaign cited the birth certificate in their 'Fact Check' on William Ayers, so presumably, someone in the campaign has access to it," he said.
Hawaii doesn't make public information from birth certificates.
"If the concern of the Obama campaign is that the certificate includes his Social Security number or some other data that could be useful to identity thieves, that information could easily be blocked out and the rest released. (Although I wonder if identity thieves would find Obama a tougher than usual target, since using the name on purchases would almost inevitably bring closer scrutiny.)," Geraghty said.
The Obama campaign repeatedly has declined to respond to WND requests for comment.
The presumptive Republican nominee for president, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., already has gone through the same type of challenge, and the U.S. Senate responded with a resolution in April declaring him to be a "'natural born Citizen' under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States."
That article declares that "no person except a natural born citizen … shall be eligible to the Office of president."
McCain was challenged because he was born to two U.S. citizens in the Panama Canal Zone.
According to a report from Michael Dobbs on The Fact Checker, the McCain campaign consulted two leading jurists, Theodore Olsen and Laurence Tribe, and they agreed.
"They argue that McCain is a natural born citizen because the United States exercised sovereignty over the Panama Canal at the time of his birth on August 29, 1936, he was born on a U.S. military base, and both of his parents were U.S. citizens," the report said.
Others say the issue isn't quite that simple, and the matter could be resolved fully only by a constitutional amendment or a U.S. Supreme Court ruling.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=66787
HIllary is now praying Obama was born in Kenya.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: johnm214]
#8566388 - 06/26/08 12:01 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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> Even presuming Seuss is correct and all certificates must be certified
Grr... I spent the last 30 minutes trying to figure out what site I was on when I read the law. At the time, I was searching for something else, and now I don't remember how I got there. Unless I can find the link, take my claim with a bit of uncertainty.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: Seuss]
#8566415 - 06/26/08 12:10 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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yeah, I wasn't implying you weren't correct, just saying arguendo what the effect was.... Wasn't trying to say you made that up or anything- I haven't tried to look it up myself and really have no idea. I'm not aware you can get a noncertified copy in ohio, and don't believe you can in the normal course, but don't know if that's actual law or just bullshit the clerks pull to get tons of dough for ten seconds of stamping the paper.
Since this certificate appears to be a 2007 copy though, there is really no need to look at the law in years prior.
The other thing lonestar didn't discuss, is: is it required that certified copies be signed? I don't know...
Either way, I think it is possible the low-resolution copy on obama's site could be from the same photo madtown posted, and since a seal appears visible in madtown's photo, perhaps one was simply not visible in the obama version?
I think its all worthless though. Even if the thing is a forgery, its just a political loss unless he can't prove he wasn't born in hawaii.
I've read the speculation, and I think its quite clear that his parents status and whatnot is all irelevant: if he was born in hawaii when he claims he is eligible.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: johnm214]
#8566628 - 06/26/08 12:51 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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> yeah, I wasn't implying you weren't correc
Oh, I know... but you got me wondering if I hadn't misread something (as for whatever I was searching was bringing up a lot of stuff from MN)... I just don't like it when I can't back up my claims; often a sign of crossed memories or general sloppiness on my part.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: lonestar2004]
#8567821 - 06/26/08 05:14 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said:
Quote:
downforpot said:
Quote:
lonestar2004 said:
Quote:
downforpot said:
Lonestar will prolly shit his pants if Obama wins.
it would be very UPSETTING!
Thank god it has no chance of happening!
Just like Democrats won't take the congress in 2006?

My statement still stands.
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: downforpot]
#8567854 - 06/26/08 05:21 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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as expected. (There is no forgiveness around here)
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: lonestar2004]
#8568263 - 06/26/08 06:58 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said: as expected. (There is no forgiveness around here)
And my statement still stands.
--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
Edited by downforpot (06/26/08 06:58 PM)
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MrSinister
Uncle T



Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 4,252
Loc: Outworld
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: lonestar2004]
#8568709 - 06/26/08 08:41 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Oh well i am not voting for him anyways so whats it matter.. Personally i hope he is found out to be a lier, and Hilary gets the nod.
--------------------
"They look like psychos? Is that what they looked like? They were vampires. Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits 'em. I don't give a fuck how crazy they are!" "Eric Stratton.. Rush chairman.. Damn glad to meet you.."
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dtugg
Druggie


Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 355
Last seen: 8 years, 18 days
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: MrSinister]
#8573661 - 06/28/08 08:07 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Apparantly, Obama's birth certificate looks exactly like a scanned copy of it should:
Quote:
The Hawaii Department of Health receives about a dozen e-mail inquiries a day about Obama’s birth certificate, spokesman Okubo said.
“I guess the big issue that’s being raised is the lack of an embossed seal and a signature,” Okubo said, pointing out that in Hawaii, both those things are on the back of the document. “Because they scanned the front … you wouldn’t see those things.”
Okubo says she got a copy of her own birth certificate last year and it is identical to the Obama one we received.
And about the copy we e-mailed her for verification? “When we looked at that image you guys sent us, our registrar, he thought he could see pieces of the embossed image through it.”…
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
Maybe you guys will give it a rest now.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,289
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: dtugg]
#8573986 - 06/28/08 10:52 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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More proof that Conservatives are just stupid as shit.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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dtugg
Druggie


Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 355
Last seen: 8 years, 18 days
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: Madtowntripper]
#8575728 - 06/28/08 09:48 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said: More proof that Conservatives are just stupid as shit.
I have no doubt that McCain-haters would be saying exactly the same thing if the roles were reversed.
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thedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
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Re: Analysis: Faked birth certificate suggests Obama may not be US citizen [Re: dtugg]
#8575783 - 06/28/08 10:10 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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This is the real problem with politics today. Instead of debating the issues and discussing the candidates based on the merits of their stances, pols dig through the mud looking for non-issue, and irrelevant points on which to attack. All it does is perpetuate the growing disinterest of the voter, utterly distract from relevant discussion, and serve to further divide differing positions for no valid reason.
In my eyes, if there is a real threat to America it's the frivolous attacks like the one this thread is founded on, and the perpetual antagonism to, and disassociation of the voter created by such actions.

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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
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