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 Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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 Re: Honey jar help 
#85556 - 05/12/00 07:05 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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wait a few days longer.
it's been only 3 or so...
spore germination time will normally be 3-5 days so i'd be patient.
minor points.
you could use a tablespoon instead of teaspoon next time.
pre-heating the honey water in microwave and stirring to disolve helps reduce sediment.
using ice to speed cooling might have caused some suction of contam'd air into the jar.
pressure cook it as you would agar.
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Anonymous
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85558 - 05/12/00 07:08 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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Laser I used about 16 ounces of water and injected 4cc's worth of PF spores. It took a good week before I saw anything substancial. My best guess is to just give it some time. Good luck.
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 WildLASER
Infinity In AGrain Of Salt
Registered: 04/01/00
Posts: 870
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85559 - 05/12/00 08:25 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thank you all for your help, you have given me some hope for my honey jar, I just arrived back from dinner, during which the honey jar was wrapped in a heating blanket that goes from Low-Hi with 9 in-between, had it on 4.
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WildLASER
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85560 - 05/14/00 08:42 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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UPDATE: Been considerably more hours, I think about 4-5 days, no notcieable growth really, water is real cloudy and I think I see some mycelium on the bottom, as well as the black spots (spores I think) floating around (a few), I shake it alot. Is this ~ok for PFMR, I hope I get growth soon.
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WildLASER
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85561 - 05/15/00 04:00 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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It has now been 6-7 days and all I see is some very cloudy white water, more so when shaken, a few bits of the spore stuff, and a bit of white shit that was in there (looks like a rock of perlite) that looks brownish now, still, no noticeable mycelium, but it does look like wispy shit and smoke when I shake the bottle, then it dissolves. Should I try making one substrate jar to see if this works or what? It is pissing me off that no growth has shown in 6 days or so using this (PFMR) strain.
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Anonymous
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85562 - 05/16/00 09:51 AM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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I too have had both sucess and failure with the honey water tec. 1st for the success: I took straight spring h20, 400ml, and added 1.5 rounded teaspoon of raw honey bought at the health store. This honey is unfiltered and has some fine sediment in it. pressure cook for 25 mins, innoculate with some of Ryche Hawk's ecuadorian strain spores. incubate at 84F for 3 days, massive mycelial growth. now the failures: same technique only with cambodian and panaeolous trop. spores instead. Same smoky, fine, dusty yellow appearance in jars but no positive mycelium.
its been 2 weeks on the cambodians and a week on the pan trop. oh, teh pan trop is at 70-75F. I dont know whether a change in parameters is called for or whether this smoky cloudy silt is actually germinated tissue. It doesnt seem to me like it is contamination.
any more thoughts wildlaser?
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Hippie3
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Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85563 - 05/16/00 09:56 AM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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some are slow starters. i wouldn't pitch it just yet but starting another might be prudent.
bacteria might be present.------------------
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Anonymous
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85564 - 05/16/00 12:57 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was wondering if anyone else has had success/failure w/Ryche's Cambodian strain and this honey tek...Thanks as always! 
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WildLASER
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Posts: 870
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85565 - 05/16/00 06:54 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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I noticed that smoky stuff now appears solidified on the bottom rather then just when I shake it, also, I do not have a pressuer cooker and boiled for about 35 min, is this sufficient?
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,'~Þ
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WildLASER
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85566 - 05/16/00 06:57 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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On further investigation (checked jar again), it appears nothing is on the bottom (like the smokey stuff, it redistributes when shaken) I thin I am going to start a new jar, boil it for an hour, and let it cool overnight, then inoculate with 2cc spore water instead of 1.
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,'~Þ
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WildLASER
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85567 - 05/16/00 09:10 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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I am leaving this jar for now, hoever I just started a new jar, had more honey this time and pre-disolved it stirring in the honey after heating spring water in microwave. It is currentely boiling, for about 1 hour total, and then I will incoulate with 2ccs spore water and put in my closet, maybe trying to set up a heating blanket this time.
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aural
Hola Amigos!
Registered: 05/03/00
Posts: 511
Loc: The Desert In The Spring
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85568 - 05/16/00 11:18 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you are looking at sediments at the bottom of a bottle of boiled honey water,I should mention that I brew mead,which is basically fermented boiled honey water.When you boil it,some proteins and stuff coagulate and stuff,then settle out to the bottom....
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billthecat
newbie
Registered: 05/10/00
Posts: 34
Last seen: 23 years, 2 months
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85569 - 05/17/00 08:49 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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hey aural,
this doesn't really relate to the topic, but i was wondering if you could point me in the direction of some good literature on brewing mead...thanks,
-bill the cat
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WildLASER
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Posts: 870
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85570 - 05/19/00 10:35 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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This new jar doesn't look like it is making much progress, been 3-5 days, not sure, but I do not see much, maybe what looks like a few spores germinated and made some white stuff but then quit or something.
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,'~Þ
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WildLASER
Infinity In AGrain Of Salt
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Posts: 870
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85571 - 05/20/00 12:07 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thats it! I think my syringe was dead, I tried 2 honey jars and did everything perfectly, and double checked it all the second time, I boiled for an hour and 5 minutes the second time, and was more sterile, still NO GROWTH, I think I am going to ask for a new syringe.
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Anonymous
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85572 - 05/21/00 10:25 AM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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I am obviously not an expert, or anything close to it in this category. But could carmalization be a problem. You said you sterilized for 1 hour+, this is a bit mch I have heard half an hour.
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WildLASER
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85573 - 05/21/00 08:03 AM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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I tried 30-35 the first time and got no growth as well.
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WildLASER
Infinity In AGrain Of Salt
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Posts: 870
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85574 - 05/21/00 05:16 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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I might be getting/borrowing a pressure cooker, as this will probably speed things up and increase my chances.
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,'~Þ
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WildLASER
Infinity In AGrain Of Salt
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Posts: 870
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85575 - 05/21/00 07:00 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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DAMN THAT STUNK!!! I just opened my first honey jar (second attempt is same I bet) and I was reminded of the chemistry rule of WAFTING and not sniffing! The slightly yellowish liquid had a pungent odor of bacteria, not a nice mushroomy scent, but the crap that you grow on broth exposed to the air if you have ever done that experiment. I do not know HOW it was contaminated, or how it beat the spores even germinating, but I suspect these spores are bad too. Any help? I mixed the honey and water kinda untersterily, sprayed everything down with lysol, I thought it wouldn't matter since I was sterilizing it anyway. This jar I boiled for 30 minutes, tape over the hole, I think contaminated air was sucked into the jar, how can I prevent this? When I puncture the hole, air rushes in, I only had the hole opened for a second while injecting spores then re-sealing. I will post more questions/comments later, as this is the first and probably hardest step in the process (imho).
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85576 - 05/22/00 07:20 AM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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where did you get your spores ?
in a post at drooldonkey,
workman mentioned that most vendors', other than pf, have yeasts in their syringes.
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WildLASER
Infinity In AGrain Of Salt
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Posts: 870
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85577 - 05/22/00 11:43 AM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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I got it from PF, which I believe I mentioned earlier in this thread.Still, no one has answered me, how can I not suck in that air when opening? Can I not tape the hole, put tin foil over the jar to keep at water, spray lysol everywhere, open the lid of the pan, inject fast, and then cover with tape? I am almost positive this is the crap from the air, I heard air rush in there when I punctured the hole, I am sure.
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,'~Þ
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CLuB99
lost somewhere in time and space
Registered: 10/26/99
Posts: 1,316
Loc: my mind
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85578 - 05/22/00 12:35 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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WildLASER
Maybe this can help you....
You can drill 2 holes in the lid and use one to inject spores/suck liquid mycelium and the other one for gas exchange as shown in the the pic, also in this way when you suck or inject the difference of pressure will be neutralized.
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Look at http://novenove.homepage.com/Honeytek.html for the liquidmycelium honeytek
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CLuB99
lost somewhere in time and space
Registered: 10/26/99
Posts: 1,316
Loc: my mind
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85579 - 05/22/00 12:37 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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Damn pics.....let's try again...
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CLuB99
lost somewhere in time and space
Registered: 10/26/99
Posts: 1,316
Loc: my mind
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85580 - 05/22/00 12:38 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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WTF????????
ok...go to the link in my signature, better way 
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WildLASER
Infinity In AGrain Of Salt
Registered: 04/01/00
Posts: 870
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85581 - 05/22/00 04:01 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yo, thanks, although still, I must be quick and not let much air get near the hole on top, I think I will make that hole with a filter, and then cover my other hole with tape, puncture it, inject real fast, (maybe while still in pan with lysol sprayed around it?) then cover up fast with tape again. Hopefully this will work...
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,'~Þ
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WildLASER
Infinity In AGrain Of Salt
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Posts: 870
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85582 - 05/23/00 03:06 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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I am not sure if my filters are good enough? Are the ones from FP good enough, ChesterCopperpot sent them to me.
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Anonymous
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85583 - 05/23/00 04:52 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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whats the yeast for in the syringe
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WildLASER
Infinity In AGrain Of Salt
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Posts: 870
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85584 - 05/28/00 10:42 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'd imagine the yeast got in there by mistake, or is used to preserve or something? Personally, I see no reason, wouldn't yeast just overrun the mycelium?
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,'~Þ
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CLuB99
lost somewhere in time and space
Registered: 10/26/99
Posts: 1,316
Loc: my mind
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85585 - 05/29/00 11:17 AM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hey WildLASER....
Put a drop of silicone on the other hole, instead of using tape.....
Try it!!! it works much better (- less contams)
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WildLASER
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85586 - 05/30/00 07:06 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just used one hole and didnt tape it, I covered with aluminum foil, but I think since it was sitting there for so long it might have messed up. I think this new jar is bad too, I just got a new syringe, looks much better (healthier) then the old one.
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,'~Þ
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WildLASER
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85587 - 05/31/00 07:15 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think I will just tape a filter over the hole, (tape the edges) then quickly insert the syringe and inject, and cover with the filter and tape over it. I am using the new syringe I have which should be VIABLE spores this time, as the syringe looks much healthier.
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,'~Þ
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WildLASER
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85588 - 05/31/00 07:18 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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[wrong thread Shroomery and IE messed up][This message has been edited by WildLASER (edited May 31, 2000).]
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,'~Þ
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WildLASER
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Posts: 870
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85589 - 06/02/00 02:47 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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Can anyone tell me a FOOLPROOF way, I have 3 jars failed so far, don't want to lose any more spore solution or time.
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Anonymous
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85590 - 06/02/00 03:26 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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Try inoculating using the oven tek. Unfortunately, this is not foolproof method. If you want to get closer to foolproof, just stick with inoculating your jars with the spore solution. The honey water or malt extract water should only need a few drops of spore solution, so the risk isn't that great.
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"It never got weird enough for me."
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Hippie3
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Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85591 - 06/02/00 04:11 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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there is no 'fool-proof' way but
try working in a glovebox,
use filter disk/material to prevent air rushing in,
and incubate in a clean environment.
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WildLASER
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85592 - 06/02/00 06:51 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks, I think I may construct a glove box, or use the oven, but I am definetly using a filter disc, I have some from FP that were sent to me by a generous person. I also have some fine porosity filters from the my chem class (was a bio room too).
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keyzar
journeyman
Registered: 04/03/00
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Re: Honey jar help [Re: Hippie3]
#85593 - 06/02/00 07:38 PM (24 years, 4 months ago) |
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i have had no luck with the cambodians and the honey tek i did 4 jars 1 cambodians 1 of the b+ 1 golden teachers 1 azure the cambodians never germinated in the honey water but they did fine on malt agar so im going to try them on malt water solution the golden teachers took off and the b+ took off both with great sucsess the azures didnt do so well so i tried them in a tea of sorts that i made out of ground up oak bark and a little honey boiled it and strained it in a coffee filter only a little sediment remains and interestingly enough the mycelium seems to be growing off the bark sediment but still no luck getting the cambodians to germinate in honeywater
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