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Well you assume that the big bang theory is fact when it is simply a model built from our best current observations. There are problems with it though, for instance the current model predicts a higher level of CMBR than we  currently measure.

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zouden said:
But protons and electrons are real objects.

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There is alot more physics and particles in an atom than what you have studied in chem class, what you are taught with the models in class are nothing like actual atoms and molecules. You already know that though and this physics stuff is way over my head no wonder I dropped out

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zouden said:
I was taught the Bohr model - yes I know it's like 80 years old now but I didn't think it had been superseded by anything else, at least, it works well enough to describe the shape of the orbitals etc, which was enough for chemistry students, as you said.
So what's new in the atomic theory that I missed?

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WordlessNature said:
James 5:15-16

"15 And their prayer offered in faith will heal the sick, and the Lord will make them well. And anyone who has committed sins will be forgiven.

16 Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and wonderful results."

I will fairly assume that OrgoneConclusion was not being precise, and used the term "Jesus" to apply to the Christian faith in general.

This being the case, I believe I have supplied the evidence you requested.

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OrgoneConclusion said:
Nope. These are not my reasons, but actual quotes. Of course, every single one denies Christ's teachings of faith, healing and wellness, but what the heck, got to make excuses to keep the delusion going.


I won't even mention that diabetes is higher in the Bible Belt and in Baptists in particular. Oops! I just mentioned it, didn't I?  Bad OC.

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I guess its kinda tricky.  You are absolutly right that people view the bible as word of god, however; I think that's bullshit: the bible is just a bunch of testimony and stories, and god is what god is, not what someone said he is.


So I'd still say that god never promised healing to the sick.

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Diploid said:
But protons and electrons are real objects.

Protons and electrons are theoretical constructs that appear to represent real objects. No one has ever seen a proton and it's incorrect to state that they really are real things.

They are theoretical things that do not even posses the property called "its location". Is is not possible to know where any given proton is exactly. All that can be stated is the probability that a proton is at a given point in space.

What's even more mind blowing is that any given proton has a non-zero probability of existing in every point in the universe. In other words, a proton that is observed at the tip of your finger has a 99.999999% probability of actually being at the tip of your finger the next time it's observed and a 0.0000000001% probability of being somewhere near Saturn the next time it's observed.

These numbers are made up, but they illustrate the idea that protons do not have the property called "its location". They're at every point in all of space at the same time in what's called Quantum Superposition, with the highest probability of being at the point in space where you expect them to be.

I think that's pretty cool and it's amazing things like this that make me wonder why some people prefer to cling to made up superstition and mysticism and religion when the real world is so much more interesting.

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Diploid said:

I think that's pretty cool and it's amazing things like this that make me wonder why some people prefer to cling to made up superstition and mysticism and religion when the real world is so much more interesting.

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I couldnt have said it better, science is awesome, and far more mysterious than any religion.

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blewmeanie said:
We still use the bohr model, because for the most part it produces accurate results. However ts just a conceptual idea that allows us to visualize a mathematical function. Its not that there is nothing there, but its not a (in theory) a solid thing like a desk, or the moon. I think the current view is to look at it as a non localized wave function.

The bohr model is a perfectly reasonable way to visualize it though.

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Diploid said:
Would you have said the same thing about atoms, before they built microscopes capable of seeing them?

Atoms have never been seen. What those microscopes detect are electromagnetic wave packets that appear to represent atoms. They are theoretical constructs.

This is all taught in second year physics in university.

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