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Offlinezouden
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Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: wisp]
    #8548860 - 06/21/08 09:16 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

It's much harder, I'll grant you that.

I think we'd all agree that a charge of animal abuse relies on evidence. If there's no evidence of abuse, you can't charge anyone.

So if we know that a sexual act occurred, is that alone evidence of abuse? Tripsis says it is, but the rest of us say it isn't.

That about sums up the debate, right?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Invisiblewisp

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 5,304
Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: johnm214]
    #8548865 - 06/21/08 09:17 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Ok even if it could be considered natural in some sense, no one has given me a plausible answer how it could be decided that the animal consents. Coercion is still abuse. Nor can it be measured whether the animal undergoes psychological damage from such an event.

Screw driving them out of down so they can continue the abuse elsewhere. Would you drive a paedophile out of town to abuse kids elsewhere? No. Prison it more likely. Or death in some places.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: wisp]
    #8548866 - 06/21/08 09:17 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

tripsis said:
Sure it is easy to define whether a person is willing or not - you can ask them. How do you define if an animal is?




Ok, I agree, and this is where we agree I believe.

Abuse is wrong.  Probably in most cases it will be easy to show the animal didn't consent.  If you pentrate an animal and cause harm, or there is evidence the animal resisted, lock the fucker up.

If there is no evidence the animal resisted, however, or the animal initiated it, then I don't think it should be a crime.


I just don't think laws should be broader than necessary to effectuate their goal: if you want to stop abusive animal sex, then illegalize abusive animal sex. 

I  just think the case at present is one of the hopefully rare cases where the animal couldn't be said to be harmed, and it shouldn't be illegal therefore.


It does make me sleep a little less uneasy knowing there's horse sexers out there though...

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Invisiblewisp

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 5,304
Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: johnm214]
    #8548898 - 06/21/08 09:26 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Ok I can tolerate, but don't like or advocate in any way, bestiality where there is no harm to the animal. But it is hard to judge that, and pretty much impossible to gauge psychological damage.

Only if the animal initiates it can you really be safe in saying it isn't abusive. If a person initiates it, it could be seen as coercion. If an adult coercing a child into sex is considered abuse then so should a person coercing an animal into sex be considered abuse.

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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: wisp]
    #8549046 - 06/21/08 10:34 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

tripsis said:
If an adult coercing a child into sex is considered abuse then so should a person coercing an animal into sex be considered abuse.



Its not coercion that makes sex with a minor illegal its judeo-christian values.......er I mean age that makes it so. I dont think anyone is arguing that coercing (to restrain or dominate by force) an animal into sex should be legal, only that banning consensual sex is absurd.

And your analogy to a child is simply non-sequitur. The legal rights attributed to a child are in no way similar to an animal.
For example you can
  • eat

  • kill for sport

  • buy and sell

  • use pain as a training method

  • inter breed them with other species

  • prostitute them to other animal owners
    EDIT: for their animals "use", not the owners:smirk:

  • preform unconsented medical procedures

  • administer drugs to quiet them

  • take them to the pound to be killed if you
    dont want them

  • surgically alter them for appearance

  • kill stuff and mount them for show

  • chain them up unsupervised

  • feed them garbage

  • an animal is permitted to kill other wild
    animals


.......etc none of which applies to a child.

The analogy simply doesnt hold true.


--------------------
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Edited by blewmeanie (06/21/08 10:40 PM)

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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: johnm214]
    #8549052 - 06/21/08 10:36 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:

It does make me sleep a little less uneasy knowing there's horse sexers out there though...



I'd be more worried about the horses that are sexing up people.:naughty:


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Offlinegethyn
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Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #8549170 - 06/21/08 11:31 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

you know what i think is horse cruelty when an owner puts on that three foot glove and drives his fist down a studs ass to stimulate its prostate in regard of getting it hard for its mare . So wow i think the guy getting it, is just fucked in the head so is the film crew. They do this sort of thing because they have an audience that wants to watch it without the audience probably no movie right.


--------------------
I RESEMBLE THE REST

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: wisp]
    #8549299 - 06/22/08 12:29 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

If a dog humps your leg, are you a dog molester?

Likewise, if you bend over and a horse comes up and f:shocked:cks you in the ass, are you guilty?

You could argue you are provoking the horse by bending over but really, that horse knows you are not a mare, it just decides to make due or maybe its a kinky horse :wink:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: Asante]
    #8549694 - 06/22/08 02:59 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

If you bend over and take it from a horse,
and the horse says "squeal like a pig", during the act,
would that constitute for grounds in an undue emotional/sexual abuse case....?

Emotional trauma from an animal could wound quite deep on the psyche....    :super:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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InvisibleQuantumReality
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Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: Asante]
    #8550341 - 06/22/08 11:01 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Haha, id say the horse was doing the abusing there Lol but the other way round i would say its abuse :lol:

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Invisiblekoppie
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Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: wisp]
    #8552977 - 06/23/08 02:22 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

tripsis said:
Eating animals in natural. Having sex with them is not. It's really very simple.





You seem to have a very quaint notion of what is "natural", that statement really translates into: "From birth I've been exposed to animals being eaten, but I have only recently come across bestiality, therefore I do not  consider this normal"

Nature isn't ordered by human rules. As the bunny-raping-kitty vid above shows, interspecies sex isn't unheard of in the animal kingdom. Interkingdom sex isn't even unheard of. Insects are tricked into copulating with flowers every day. Are these poor bees being abused by the wicked orchid?

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Invisiblewisp

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 5,304
Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: koppie]
    #8553001 - 06/23/08 02:47 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Again that's natural, insects have co-evolved with flowers and are dependent upon one another. The context is not the same in the slightest.

Bunnies and kitties do not have sex in the wild. These are domesticated animals with warped instincts you are talking about. Domestication is not natural either.

Show me two animals of different species in the wild having sex.

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Invisiblekoppie
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Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: wisp]
    #8553008 - 06/23/08 02:56 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

First thing that came up in a Google search.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/03/070314-hybrids.html

Edited to add a juicy quote out of context:
Quote:


"In the past people have often viewed hybridization as a mistake," Mallet said. "But this is probably not an unnatural phenomenon."

And, he said, "sex with another species may be very occasionally quite a good idea."



Edited by koppie (06/23/08 03:03 AM)

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Invisiblewisp

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 5,304
Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: koppie]
    #8553073 - 06/23/08 03:44 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Interesting. In still isn't quite in the same context, but point taken.

I still think that if there is any abuse or coercion taking place between human-animal sexual relations, then it is wrong. If there isn't, as I said I don't like it but technically it is fine and I'm more tolerant toward it.

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OfflineActiveA
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Registered: 06/05/08
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Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: wisp]
    #8553105 - 06/23/08 04:12 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I saw a video of a guy fucking a female Croc once.

Chatest thing I've ever seen.


--------------------
Violence iz not berry nice snarf snarf.


When I wake up, lying in bed, I twist up a fat one to fuck up my head :smile:

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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: wisp]
    #8553205 - 06/23/08 05:10 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

tripsis said:
Again that's natural, insects have co-evolved with flowers and are dependent upon one another. The context is not the same in the slightest.


Bunnies and kitties do not have sex in the wild. These are domesticated animals with warped instincts you are talking about. Domestication is not natural either.

Show me two animals of different species in the wild having sex.




Actually its an excellent example, humans, and horses/other pets could be considered domesticated. You wouldnt see a cat and a rabbit mating in the wild, because the cat would be more worried about its next meal than getting some bunny booty. The same is probably true with people. If we were living in caves, and hunting on a daily basis I doubt bestiality's would ever happen.

If you looking for examples, a google search  for interspecies mating should sufice.


--------------------
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Invisiblewisp

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 5,304
Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #8553283 - 06/23/08 05:58 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Will this damned thread not die? I can't be bothered arguing for the sake of arguing. It's quite clear that neither side is going to come round to the other.

Back to the caves it is then! Just wait until I'm dictator of the world...:lol:

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Invisiblekoppie
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Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: wisp]
    #8553573 - 06/23/08 08:28 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Meh, I'm still waiting for a link to the man-on-croc porn. I wonder if there's a blowjob involved. :eek:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: koppie]
    #8554026 - 06/23/08 11:33 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

koppie said:
Quote:

tripsis said:
Eating animals in natural. Having sex with them is not. It's really very simple.





You seem to have a very quaint notion of what is "natural", that statement really translates into: "From birth I've been exposed to animals being eaten, but I have only recently come across bestiality, therefore I do not  consider this normal"

Nature isn't ordered by human rules. As the bunny-raping-kitty vid above shows, interspecies sex isn't unheard of in the animal kingdom. Interkingdom sex isn't even unheard of. Insects are tricked into copulating with flowers every day. Are these poor bees being abused by the wicked orchid?




--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Horse porn - animal cruelty or animal right? [Re: Asante]
    #8555375 - 06/23/08 05:56 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

What are the chances that I would get this in an e-mail today.....  :smirk:









Statutory Rape....?


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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