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OfflineAnarchoTrip
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I'm interested in chaos theory...
    #8521612 - 06/13/08 09:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

but I don't know anything about it, nor where to start.

What's some good beginning chaos theory books?

And WHATS up with all the mysticism going on in this forum? C'mon philosophers, beat those mystics down with our INTELLECTUALISM!


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #8521674 - 06/13/08 09:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Do you mean in mathematics/physics, or is there a chaos theory in philosophy?

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InvisibleTheShroomJew23
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #8521687 - 06/13/08 09:40 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

This is the easiest example and pretty much explains the entire idea of Chaos Theory.

So a butterfly lands on a leaf, the leaf shakes and microorganisms fall off, these organisms grow and turn into a virus, this virus spreads by animals, eventually people get it, the guy who holds his hand over the big red button all day gets it, passes out during his job hitting the red button, all the nukes go off, the world is over.

This is even more simple.

A butterfly flaps its wings, this causes all the nukes to go off on the other side of the world.

The whole idea of Chaos Theory is that one small thing can start a chain reaction of Chaos which eventually leads to the end of the Earth.


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OfflineAnarchoTrip
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: TheShroomJew23]
    #8521776 - 06/13/08 10:02 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

that didn't help. quit ruining my threads.

and yes, I'm interested in the mathematical/physics chaos theory.


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InvisibleTheShroomJew23
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #8522090 - 06/13/08 11:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

sorry I was just outlining the theory I have some books that are old school I did a check and they arent being published anymore.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #8522757 - 06/14/08 08:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

but I don't know anything about it, nor where to start.

Just watch your emotions.:thumbup:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #8523010 - 06/14/08 10:26 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

AnarchoTrip said:and yes, I'm interested in the mathematical/physics chaos theory.



This probably isnt the best forum then.  Not trying to be a dick to any regulars here, but philosophy people are often antagonistic towards and downplay the importance of math and science.

Read the wikipedia pages on chaos theory, fractals, and Henri Poincare.  Then post and specific questions or thoughts you have.

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OfflineFaaip_De_Oiad
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: DieCommie]
    #8523149 - 06/14/08 11:21 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

^ ^ ^ He's right. If you want rigorous fact based discussions go to the Mysticism and Paranormal forum :smirk:

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #8523168 - 06/14/08 11:25 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

AnarchoTrip said:

And WHATS up with all the mysticism going on in this forum? C'mon philosophers, beat those mystics down with our INTELLECTUALISM!




So intellectuals can't be mystical and mystics can't be intellectual?

What's up with all the either/or, black and white, 'us vs. them' thinking going on in this forum?

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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: Middleman]
    #8523213 - 06/14/08 11:38 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The day of reckoning is upon us! :lecture:


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: Middleman]
    #8523421 - 06/14/08 12:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
So intellectuals can't be mystical and mystics can't be intellectual?

What's up with all the either/or, black and white, 'us vs. them' thinking going on in this forum?




Some ideologies are just incompatible by construction.  Like faith and skepticism.

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OfflineAnarchoTrip
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: DieCommie]
    #8523499 - 06/14/08 01:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

No, there's a huge difference between philosophy and mysticism or philosophy and theology. Philosophy is based upon reasoning, mysticism is based, largely, on FAITH.

I also find mystical discussions rather annoying for many reasons such as:

There's no REAL way to argue mysticism... it's all opinions (and no, philosophy isn't the same thing)

There's always some annoying poetic beatnik throwing out spiritual rhetoric

and it's so damn korny.


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #8523840 - 06/14/08 02:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Cool man, you must have travelled a very long and strenous to find mysticism discussions annoying and 'korny'.

Oh please, do let me in on your secret!  :sissies:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8523867 - 06/14/08 03:02 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

It's kind of easy to get jaded when so many claims turn into someones personal fear or ego trip. Like most things to do with humans a very high percentage is not for real.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8523899 - 06/14/08 03:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Cool man, you must have travelled a very long and strenous to find mysticism discussions annoying and 'korny'.

It is a long and strenuous journey.  But once puberty is over things settle down and make more sense.

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: DieCommie]
    #8524164 - 06/14/08 04:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

the butterfly example has been worn out and it doesn't explain it clearly enough, it turns a scientific theory into a romantic idea.

but then again love is chaos is love.


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: DieCommie]
    #8525045 - 06/14/08 09:37 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Cool man, you must have travelled a very long and strenous to find mysticism discussions annoying and 'korny'.

It is a long and strenuous journey.  But once puberty is over things settle down and make more sense.




Well shit, the more time that goes by, the less things make sense to me.  Well, atleast as far as human culture goes.  Does this mean I am going back in time?


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8525054 - 06/14/08 09:40 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Chaos theory is the wild idea that no one can ever account for absolutely all factors in play.

Naturally, therefore, things happen which cannot be predicted or accounted for. Ever seen Jurassic Park? :yesnod:


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (06/14/08 09:43 PM)

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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8525096 - 06/14/08 09:55 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

In essence, doesn't chaos theory assert that absolutely everything is inter-connected?


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8525785 - 06/15/08 01:50 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

No, I dont think so. 

The essence is... you have chaos when end results vary wildly based on very slight differences of input.  Its easily illustrated on some fractals, the color you get varies wildly based on very slight changes of a point on the fractal's boundary.

You can certainly have chaos in an isolated system.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: DieCommie]
    #8525829 - 06/15/08 02:20 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Lots of simplified ways to describe Chaos Theory to non-math-minded type people, none of which really describe it by themselves.

I honestly feel like the name of the theory itself should make it clear what it states. It's kind of an obvious fact of the universe.

Something which seems unremarkable to you now might make a huge difference down the road, and there's no way to know for sure ahead of time.

I'm sure the progenitors of chaos theory had a lot of fun coming up with ideas like that a butterfly fluttering its wings might trigger a disaster on the other side of the world. For all you know it happens every day, but can you really know for sure?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (06/15/08 02:31 AM)

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... (moved) [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #8526089 - 06/15/08 07:23 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

This thread was moved from Philosophy & Spirituality.

Reason:
This thread has nothing to do with Philosophy or Spirituality. Please stay on topic.

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OfflineAnarchoTrip
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... (moved) [Re: Diploid]
    #8526652 - 06/15/08 12:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

how did this have nothing to do with philsophy?

Diploid :thumbdown:


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InvisibleThirdEyeOpening
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... (moved) [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #8526667 - 06/15/08 12:31 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

One of my favorite books, and a very well written one on chaos theory. Some parts my go above your head, but if you can remember anything from high school physics, it shouldent.



Chaos

prologue


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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... (moved) [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #8526719 - 06/15/08 12:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

AnarchoTrip said:
how did this have nothing to do with philsophy?

Diploid :thumbdown:




How does it have anything to do with philosophy?  I asked you that and you replied...

and yes, I'm interested in the mathematical/physics chaos theory.

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OfflineAnarchoTrip
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... (moved) [Re: DieCommie]
    #8526745 - 06/15/08 12:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

...we're getting into grey here.

I'm interested in the overviewing "theory" of the Chaos theory, and I consider this more philosophical than mathematical. I'm NOT interested in memorising formulas and reading about other-dimension matricies--I consider that all mathematical/scientific.

My bad, I guess.


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InvisibleThirdEyeOpening
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... (moved) [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #8526846 - 06/15/08 01:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

And that book has very little to do with mathematical formulas or "other dimensional matrices"....

It is based on the the fact that no matter what area of science, math, life, everything that can be observed, there are phenomina which are far from the predicted observation. Which IS chaos theory.

If you dont want to hear about math, or science, dont ask a question that is based in the two. Chaos theory was 'created' to begin to understand why small changes in predetermined situations result in drastically different outcomes.

Fractals, attractors, the golden ratio, Bifurcation, are all chaotic phenomenon. Essentially its a system that tries to reach a point but never does, and never repeats, chaotic.

If you want to discuss WHY chaos exists, then that i can see as philosophical, else it is a mathematical/physics issue.



That book is really your best bet at understanding it, if i wanted to confuse you id refer you to a textbook, not a book of elaborate explanations and the history behind most all discoveries of chaos.



Sorry to rant, but asking a question then being offended at answers given, is really annoying to me.


--------------------

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

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OfflineMontgomery26
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Re: I'm interested in chaos theory... [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #8530513 - 06/16/08 04:24 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Chaos theory in math/science is covered in the CD-ROM Solid Gold Gnarly Math, at http://www.gnarlymath.com ; It's also covered briefly in an ebook found at http://www.gnarlymath.com/gnarnews.html

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