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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
If black holes collide...
    #8514043 - 06/12/08 04:12 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

do they become one bigger black hole?

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: If black holes collide... [Re: Disco Cat]
    #8514075 - 06/12/08 04:40 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Even better... can we have dark matter black holes?  If so, what happens if a dark matter black hole collides with a normal matter black hole?

(I don't know the answer to your question...)


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Invisiblewisp

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 5,304
Re: If black holes collide... [Re: Seuss]
    #8514095 - 06/12/08 04:55 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Can any of these questions actually be answered? It is just all theory.

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OfflineAnnom
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Re: If black holes collide... [Re: Disco Cat]
    #8514123 - 06/12/08 05:14 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Super massive black holes (millions-billions of suns in mass) are thought to be at the center of (almost) every galaxy. When galaxies collide, their black holes spiral towards each other and (probably/possibly) merge. The result would be a larger black hole.

Such a collision is believed to create strong gravitational waves and a lot of other weird things.

There is no theory for what actually happens inside a black hole, but the most logic thing to happen is that two colliding black holes create a more massive black hole. I think we have observed such a collision.

edit: "Jets from the core of the radio galaxy NGC 326 seem to have changed direction suddenly, perhaps as a result of black holes merging.":


http://www.nrao.edu/pr/2002/xmark/

Edited by Annom (06/12/08 05:19 AM)

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Invisiblewisp

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 5,304
Re: If black holes collide... [Re: Annom]
    #8514126 - 06/12/08 05:16 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Annom said:
There is no theory for what actually happens inside a black hole, but the most logic thing to happen is that two colliding black holes create a more massive black hole. I think we have observed such a collision.




When?

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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: If black holes collide... [Re: wisp]
    #8514128 - 06/12/08 05:17 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Ok, those answers would explain why I couldn't solve my own question with an half hour of searching online. I was curious about it after I said something I can't recall to a friend about galaxies colliding and he replied "I don't think it works like that, two black holes don't just become one bigger black hole." And I thought... "they don't?"

It would seem odd to me that with so much sucking going on that two close black holes could stay separate from each other.

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OfflineAnnom
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Re: If black holes collide... [Re: wisp]
    #8514136 - 06/12/08 05:22 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

tripsis said:
When?




I edited my post with a pic and link of a possible observation, in 2002, of two black holes that merged. It's just some evidence.

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Invisiblewisp

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 5,304
Re: If black holes collide... [Re: Annom]
    #8514144 - 06/12/08 05:27 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks. Is there any definite proof of black holes existing though? It's all still theory right, backed up by complex mathematical formulae, but still unprovable? Or have they come up with concrete proof now?

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OfflineAnnom
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Re: If black holes collide... [Re: wisp]
    #8514166 - 06/12/08 05:37 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What is definite proof? Everything is theory in science. There is no such thing as absolute truth. There is strong evidence for black holes, from theory and observation. General relativity predicted them and we indirectly found them.

Black holes follow directly from Einsteins (rather simple) gravity equations (general relativity).

Observations of stars orbiting the center of our galaxy suggest a huge mass sitting there.

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Invisiblewisp

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 5,304
Re: If black holes collide... [Re: Annom]
    #8514190 - 06/12/08 05:51 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

You have a point. I really don't know much about black holes, or physics at all for that matter. Biology interests me far more. But still, it is interesting.

So there isn't absolute proof, but your point is valid. There can't be really. But there is enough evidence to suggest it strongly.

Are there any educated ideas as to where black holes lead, or what happens to the matter that is absorbed by them?

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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: If black holes collide... [Re: wisp]
    #8514214 - 06/12/08 06:04 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I think the existence of the items being referred to as "black holes" is about certain, but what they definitively are, and happens to the information they swallow, is not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_holes

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Invisiblewisp

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 5,304
Re: If black holes collide... [Re: Disco Cat]
    #8514218 - 06/12/08 06:07 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I wonder whether we'll ever know? Seems impossible...

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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: If black holes collide... [Re: wisp]
    #8514229 - 06/12/08 06:31 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The answer to my initial question seems to be that black holes can either merge to form a bigger black hole, or one may recoil away from the other at high speed.


----------------------------------------------------------------

Superkick: Black hole expelled from its parent galaxy

Gravitational rocket propelled the monster at a speed of thousands of kilometers per second by an enormous burst of gravitational waves that accompanies the merger of two black holes the newly formed black hole was ejected from its galaxy. This extreme ejection event, which had been predicted by theorists, has now been observed in nature for the first time. The team led by Stefanie Komossa from the Max Planck Institute for extraterrestrial Physics (MPE) thereby opened a new window into observational astrophysics. The discovery will have far-reaching consequences for our understanding of galaxy formation and evolution in the early Universe, and also provides observational confirmation of a key prediction from the General Theory of Relativity (Astrophysical Journal Letters, May 10, 2008).

When two black holes merge, waves of gravitational radiation ripple outward through the galaxy at the speed of light. Because the waves are emitted mainly in one direction, the black hole itself is pushed in the opposite direction, much like the recoil that accompanies the firing of a rifle or the launching of a rocket. The black hole is booted from its normal location in the nucleus of the galaxy. If the kick velocity is high enough, the black hole can escape the galaxy completely. ...

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Offlinerev 766
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Re: If black holes collide... [Re: wisp]
    #8514236 - 06/12/08 06:34 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i saw something a couple of years ago saying that black holes aren't really "black" and that we have observed one, if the theory is true.

the basic idea is that as things are sucked into a black hole they spew out radiation. i really wish i could remember the exact science behind it, perhaps someone could help me out?

either way, the way they explained it made perfect sense, and apparently since that theory came about we have observed something similar to this in space. basically, just a lot of radiation coming from what appears to be absolutely nothing.

i could be getting some of this mixed up a bit, i haven't slept, but the basic idea is there is some observational evidence of possible black holes... well, not to mention the picture above.

i should start taking sleeping pills.


--------------------
praise "Bob"
did you mean shmooed-R.I.P.

"drought besets the mind, decay besets the man"-me

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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: If black holes collide... [Re: rev 766]
    #8514471 - 06/12/08 08:43 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

i saw something a couple of years ago saying that black holes aren't really "black" and that we have observed one, if the theory is true.

the basic idea is that as things are sucked into a black hole they spew out radiation. i really wish i could remember the exact science behind it, perhaps someone could help me out?




The radiation that black holes emits is dubbed 'Hawking radiation'.

As far as I know it works something like this....

In space particles routinely and spontaneously come into existence out of nowhere.  They are called virtual particles and they come in particle/anti-particle pairs, which annihilate each other.  So all over the place, even in front of you right now, virtual particles are coming into existence from nowhere and then annihilating each other.

Now a black hole has an 'event horizon' which is a line that on one side no matter or energy may ever escape the black hole and on the other side matter and energy can escape.  So virtual particles pop into existence on the event horizon, but say the particle is on one side and the anti particle is on the other.  Now they cannot annihilate each other and disappear!  So one goes into the black hole, and the other goes out into space as 'Hawking radiation'


I dont know if that made sense, Ill re-read it when I get back from work.

:rocket:

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: If black holes collide... [Re: Disco Cat]
    #8516409 - 06/12/08 05:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

After seeing this video of cornstarch + water + Faraday waves, it is how I invision it in my mind....
Who knows.....    :ohwell:

The "colliding black hole" part is at 1.5mins into the video....




>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Invisiblemofo
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Registered: 04/05/08
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Re: If black holes collide... [Re: Seuss]
    #8516963 - 06/12/08 07:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Even better... can we have dark matter black holes?  If so, what happens if a dark matter black hole collides with a normal matter black hole?

(I don't know the answer to your question...)




Better yet, what would happen if a regular matter black hole collided with an antimatter black hole?  I have a feeling some energy "might" escape the event horizon.

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: If black holes collide... [Re: mofo]
    #8517256 - 06/12/08 08:55 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Better yet, what would happen if a regular matter black hole collided with an antimatter black hole?




Who says theres even matter as we know it in there? There probably isn't, and black holes might be the same materials on the inside regardless of what you feed them.


--------------------
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InvisibleFerris
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Re: If black holes collide... [Re: mofo]
    #8523970 - 06/14/08 03:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mofo said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
Even better... can we have dark matter black holes?  If so, what happens if a dark matter black hole collides with a normal matter black hole?

(I don't know the answer to your question...)




Better yet, what would happen if a regular matter black hole collided with an antimatter black hole?  I have a feeling some energy "might" escape the event horizon.




I think I've heard this as a theory for what set off the big bang.


--------------------

Discuss Politics

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: If black holes collide... [Re: mofo]
    #8523985 - 06/14/08 03:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mofo said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
Even better... can we have dark matter black holes?  If so, what happens if a dark matter black hole collides with a normal matter black hole?

(I don't know the answer to your question...)




Better yet, what would happen if a regular matter black hole collided with an antimatter black hole?  I have a feeling some energy "might" escape the event horizon.




Well I guess some could at the moment the black hole was no longer such, but that's not really something escaping a black hole, that's just something ceasing to be a black hole

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