and does pre-cooking the rye grain have the same effect that pre-soaking has? pre-cooking is superior since you can get the perfect water content with fewer burst kernels. but does this hatch the endospores like soaking does?
-daniel.

[This message has been edited by rebelmoon (edited May 03, 2000).]

I'm sorry, I had this nice reply written down, when I wanted to push the Submit button Netscape was closen because of an internal error
So I'm going to write it shortly down.

I forgot to mention that Bleach does also work good, but you have to use the right concentration. The right concentration is 1/2 L of ca 5% bleach in 5 L of water.

I personally don't use bleach because:

- it smells much more penetrating than alcohol does, and the odour stays much longer.
- it is agressive to the skin, so desinfecting your hands can irritate a lot, beside that your hands will smell the whole day like bleach.
- the water I get from the city I live in contains a lot of dissolved salts and minerals, especially calcium derivates. Many of this minerals react with the bleach and get water insoluble, so everything gets a nasty white film...

One thing that is an advantage from the flamable alcohol or iso-propanol is that you can flame with them the scalpel or such things.

I have had good experience using denat. alcohol, it is inexpensive, maybe 1.50 USD where I live, and using it at 65% works great.

Concerning the pre-soaking and pre-cooking of the rye, the pre-cooking has not the same effect than the pre-soaking.

The pre-soaking aim is to let the endospores, which are much more temperature lasting, germinate, so the vegetative form, which is quiet temperature sensible, can be killed easily.

Pre-cooking won't make that the endospores germinate, and even possibly existent vegetative forms could produce endospores, because of the stress induced by the heat.

So, there is a method called tyndilisation (sp?) or fractional sterilization in microbiology to sterilize with only pasteurizing (100 C or 212 F). Especially good when you don't have access to an autoclaving device.
There is a variation I have tested some times that suites the best:

- pre-cook the rye(100 C) like you normally do. Existent vegetative forms will be killed, and only the endospores will survive.
- incubate the substrate for 24 hours at room temp. The endospores will germinate, only "few" of them will not germinate.
- Autoclave the rye (121 C) like you normally do.

This method is a kind of combination of pre-soaking and pre-cooking, and will give you a very high success rate, at least what concerns the sterilization.

I hope this helps,

Elektrolurch

quote:

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Originally posted by rebelmoon:
why would isopropyl alcohol be used over a bleach solution? does it do the job just as well or better?

and does pre-cooking the rye grain have the same effect that pre-soaking has? pre-cooking is superior since you can get the perfect water content with fewer burst kernels. but does this hatch the endospores like soaking does?
-daniel.

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[This message has been edited by Elektrolurch (edited May 05, 2000).]

dein Deutsch scheint gut zu sein. Du kannst ruhig du zu mir sagen (statt Sie). Ich bin in Deutschland, bin aber selber kein Deutscher. Das Essen der Pilze ist populaer hier, das Wachsen eher weniger. Vor allem seit 2 Jahren hat die Regierung die Pilze "halblegal" gemacht und deswegen sprechen die leute nicht viel ueber ihre Pilzzucht...

Elektrolurch

Elektrolurch

quote:

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Originally posted by The Learner:
Hallo mein Pilzz?chter!

Ich hoffe, der das korrekte zu verwendende Wort ist. Mein Deutsch ist nicht sehr gut, aber es ist gut, einen Pilzfreund hier zu sehen. Wo sind Sie und sind die Pilze popul?r zu wachsen?

God I hope I got that right

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Ich hoffe, der das korrekte zu verwendende Wort ist. Mein Deutsch ist nicht sehr gut, aber es ist gut, einen Pilzfreund hier zu sehen. Wo sind Sie und sind die Pilze popul?r zu wachsen?

God I hope I got that right

-----Originally posted by Elektrolurch:

Hello, your German seems to be good. You cannot say calmly you to me (instead of it). I are in Germany, are however German. The meal of the mushrooms is popular here, growing rather fewer. Particularly for 2 years the government made the mushrooms " halflegal " and therefore to speak the people not for much about their mushroom breed... Electrical Amphibian ratio:

-----Originally posted by The Learner:

Hello my mushroom breeder! I hope, which is the correct word which can be used. My German is not very good, but it is good to see a mushroom friend here. Where are you and are the mushrooms popular to be grown?

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The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply
sporeworks.com

[This message has been edited by Workman (edited May 04, 2000).]

Watakushi no chin chin no namae wa, Godzilla desu!

Electrical Amphibian ratio

quote:

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Originally posted by Workman:
Translation of the above post by Altavista Babelfish:

-----Originally posted by Elektrolurch:

Hello, your German seems to be good. You cannot say calmly you to me (instead of it). I are in Germany, are however German. The meal of the mushrooms is popular here, growing rather fewer. Particularly for 2 years the government made the mushrooms " halflegal " and therefore to speak the people not for much about their mushroom breed... Electrical Amphibian ratio:

-----Originally posted by The Learner:

Hello my mushroom breeder! I hope, which is the correct word which can be used. My German is not very good, but it is good to see a mushroom friend here. Where are you and are the mushrooms popular to be grown?

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"Streaming through the starlit skies
Travelling by telephone
Hey ho here we go
Ever so high"

Flaming, 1967 Pink Floyd

Elektrolurch

p.d. the method I wrote is a last resort for sterilizationn problems, try to isolate the problem source...

quote:

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Originally posted by vts1134:
Elektolurch your alternitive sterilization method is the exact oppisite of how I handle my rye. I soak for approx 24 hours to alow the endospores to germinate and I then cook at an extremly low heat for about an hour or so to get the perfect water to rye ratio. You spoke of the "vegatative mater" being induced to sporilate with the induction of heat do you think that this might be a problem in my particular situation with my particular method?

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