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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
FBI or KGB?
    #850501 - 08/29/02 07:00 AM (15 years, 30 days ago)

I for one, am leaving the country soon. i'm not lik EXTREMELY paranoid. but this is to much. people conjectured before that the FBI watched everything we did. but i didn't believe it. now they openly say it. screw that. i'd rather live in hidious conditions in a third world country than under a goverment so oppressive.

By Susan Schmidt and Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, May 30, 2002; Page A01


New Justice Department guidelines to be unveiled today will give FBI agents latitude to monitor Internet sites, libraries and religious institutions without first having to offer evidence of potential criminal activity, officials said yesterday.

The changes, part of the Justice Department's effort to mount a proactive war on terror, will mark a significant change for the FBI. While agents have been permitted in the past to conduct such surveillance if they had specific information, they have been loath to do so because of confusion about what was actually permitted, law enforcement officials said.

Justice Department and FBI officials said the guidelines will remove serious barriers to the prevention of terrorism.

"The concern is when we're confronted with people like [Zacarias] Moussaoui, or even some of the hijackers, who are known to spend substantial periods of time in mosques or other similar situations, it is very difficult to find out what they're up to," said one senior law enforcement official.

Terrorist organizations operating in this country have sometimes used mosques as recruiting grounds and gathering places. Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, the blind Egyptian cleric now imprisoned for his role in the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center, built a radical following with links to al Qaeda while preaching at mosques in Brooklyn and Jersey City, for example.

But as word of the new guidelines circulated yesterday, some civil liberties groups expressed fears of a Big Brother government monitoring its citizens.

"The FBI is now telling the American people, 'You no longer have to do anything unlawful in order to get that knock on the door,' " said Laura Murphy, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Washington office. "You can be doing a prefectly legal activity like worshiping or talking in a chat room, they can spy on you anyway."

The new guidelines state simply that FBI agents may enter public places and forums, including publicly accessible Internet sites, to observe, develop leads and investigate. The guidelines do not specifically mention religious institutions, but a senior Justice Department official said last night that the impact of the changes will be dramatic in allowing the FBI to open a window on extremist activity in mosques.

"These are open places," he said. Now, "just because they are FBI agents, they don't have to turn a blind eye to activities visible to other people."

Under guidelines that have been in place for several decades, the FBI has not been permitted to send investigators into religious settings unless the agents can establish they are following a lead, or conducting an investigation or preliminary inquiry. As a practical matter, the Justice Department official said, "agents mistakenly think they have to stop at the church door."

In a written description of the guideline changes made available yesterday, Attorney General John D. Ashcroft stated that the department needs to be able to "proactively draw on available sources of information to identify terrorist threats and activities." In the past, he said, the FBI has been a reactive body, and the guidelines "generally barred the FBI from taking the initiative unless leads as to possible criminal activity or even more substantial evidence of crimes happened to come to the FBI from external sources."

The new rules will allow agents to surf the Internet for Web sites that might give hints to terrorist activity, according to the description. The new guidelines will allow investigators to seek out and "identify sites and forums in which bomb-making instructions, preparations for cyberterrorism, child pornography, and stolen credit card information are openly traded and disseminated."

Under the existing policy, agents could pursue online searches only when they could characterize them as checking leads or otherwise furthering an ongoing investigation.

"Pure surfing or searching for the purpose of initially developing leads was not allowed, even in relation to publicly available information that anyone else is free to access and observe," according to the new policy statement.

Agents will also be permitted to do topical research not directly related to a specific crime under the new guidelines, such as research on a biological agent.

The ACLU's Murphy said, however, that the new guidelines could open the door to the same kind of problems evident in the FBI's aggressive surveillance and harassment of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

Several other aspects of the new guidelines, disclosed earlier this week, will move some decision-making authority from FBI headquarters to field offices around the country. FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III acknowledged yesterday that changes must be made to counter bureaucratic inertia at headquarters that led to missed clues in the Sept. 11 attacks.

Under the new guidelines, field office directors will be allowed to launch terrorism investigations and undercover probes without clearance from headquarters.

The guidelines are an outgrowth of privacy laws that prohibit the government from collecting information except for law enforcement purposes. In the past, the government developed information on specific cases but now needs broader intelligence to prevent terrorist acts.


? 2002 The Washington Post Company


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OfflineToxicManM
Bite me, it's fun!
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Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 6,523
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
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Re: FBI or KGB? [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #850526 - 08/29/02 07:16 AM (15 years, 30 days ago)

So... just out of curiosity... where do you plan to go? I assume you've done some research and found a place which is better, and I'd like to know what that place is also.


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
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Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,243
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 16 days, 9 hours
Re: FBI or KGB? [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #850530 - 08/29/02 07:19 AM (15 years, 30 days ago)

I'm glad that at least a few people are seeing what is happening, although I'm not sure if leaving the country is the answer. You need to make your opinions heard, if you leave you are just handing your country to them without a fight. (Although Canada is always an option if you don't mind getting taxed alot)


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (08/29/02 07:21 AM)


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Offlinewhiterastahippie
lover

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: FBI or KGB? [Re: Rono]
    #850586 - 08/29/02 08:03 AM (15 years, 30 days ago)

to toxicman:
there is not a place that is better to live. there are always bad things. but i will gladly live among the poor in a third rate country, then live under an opressive goverment. some places in africa are good (the ones without the constant fighting) like tanzania. maybe kenya. jamaica...some south american countries...i haven't narrowed it down yet, because i have a few more months before my probation is up...actually half a year. until then i stay and protest...i'm going to try to organize a rally or two in my city. peaceful of course. but things could change in any country i'm thinking about going to in the next six months....so i'll make my final decision closer to the date of departure. but basically, any country where the government is to worried with economy matters to be oppressive. there are quite a few to choose from. i've been poor before....and jesus was poor....me being a christian, that would be a beautiful thing for me.
to rono:
but don't you see how far gone it is already? the next step is to say, "oh well, if a dangerous group of terrorists had a bunch of guns, then they could hurt innocent americans. we need stricter gun laws." and just like you said about ceasar. people would hand them over willingly. 90% of the nation doesn't give a damn. i've tried to talk to people, and they are so socially programmed that no matter what i say, they are just like. "but i read from the government that...." they hang on what the government says like it was a mothers teat! on a smaller scale, my friends parents caught him smokeing pot. they are so convinced that he is addicted. that cannabis is harmful to the body. that it is every bit as addictive as crack. why? because of the misinformation put out by the DEA. they believe every word. and when my friend shows them websites with the truth about MJ...independant studies...they just say, "oh well, you can't trust those, they are done by somebody who likes pot. he is most deffinately lyeing." how stupid do you have to be? not stupid at all...just raised with misinformation and preprogrammed by a goverment. that's all.
dictatorships have always happened, but have you ever ever ever seen them stop by protestors? it could have happened once or twice...but i can't recall much about that. i'm going to get the article printed up, make about 400 copies, and put them around dallas with the headline, "there goes your freedom". but all it will do is alert thinking people like you and me. and believe me, we are the minority.

and did you know that in dallas, they will pay you up to $3000 a week just to inform on dealers (because of this, pot is scarce and coke is cheaper than dirt...great tradeoff huh?)? my friend got arrested and got that offer. plus $1200 cash in hand if he would just tell simply where he got his current weed.
turning the people against each other. and useing everything as an excuse against terrorism. i'm sorry, but this sucks.


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Anonymous

Re: FBI or KGB? [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #850619 - 08/29/02 08:36 AM (15 years, 30 days ago)

Costa Rica is nice, the weather around the elevation of the capitol, San Jose is what I would consider almost perfect (the lowlands get very hot though). The countryside is beautiful. The coffee is excellent. They have no standing army and have one of the highest (if not the highest) literacy rates in all of Latin America. The country is ideally situated geographically for international trade. There is a movement in the province of Limon to make the province a free autonomous region (similar to Hong Kong under the British) which will relieve it from the bureaucracy of the National government but still be part of Costa Rica. This could bode very well for economic development if it comes to pass. They are predominately Catholic (I recall you stating that you are Catholic). There is also a growing libertarian political movement which is much more successful than their counterparts in this country. Plus, I like Latin women and they are in abundance there.

Oh, they are also out of the path of hurricanes (too close to the equator).


Edited by Anonymous (08/29/02 08:37 AM)


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Offlinewhiterastahippie
lover

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: FBI or KGB? [Re: ]
    #850628 - 08/29/02 08:47 AM (15 years, 30 days ago)

i think i might check up on that evolving. really, that sounds great...and being religious, i feel a very very strong call to the carribean and africa. i feel like it is where i am meant to be. you know? thank you for the information. i might set up a base there...but i plan to travel for the rest of my life. staying with various churches (not just catholic, any religion that has an active service to help the poor) along the way. it's my call, but i will always need a place to come back too.
peace.


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Peace and Love to all!


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