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danknugz81
spiralingdownward
Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 882
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Revealed: Secret Plan to Keep Iraq Under U.S. Control
#8492022 - 06/06/08 09:11 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/87084/
Quote:
By Patrick Cockburn, The Independent UK. Posted June 6, 2008
A secret deal being negotiated in Baghdad would perpetuate the American military occupation of Iraq indefinitely, regardless of the outcome of the U.S. presidential election in November.
The terms of the impending deal, details of which have been leaked to The Independent, are likely to have an explosive political effect in Iraq. Iraqi officials fear that the accord, under which US troops would occupy permanent bases, conduct military operations, arrest Iraqis and enjoy immunity from Iraqi law, will destabilize Iraq's position in the Middle East and lay the basis for unending conflict in their country.
But the accord also threatens to provoke a political crisis in the U.S. President Bush wants to push it through by the end of next month so he can declare a military victory and claim his 2003 invasion has been vindicated. But by perpetuating the U.S. presence in Iraq, the long-term settlement would undercut pledges by the Democratic presidential nominee, Barack Obama, to withdraw U.S. troops if he is elected president in November.
The timing of the agreement would also boost the Republican candidate, John McCain, who has claimed the United States is on the verge of victory in Iraq -- a victory that he says Obama would throw away by a premature military withdrawal.
America currently has 151,000 troops in Iraq and, even after projected withdrawals next month, troop levels will stand at more than 142,000 - 10 000 more than when the military "surge" began in January 2007. Under the terms of the new treaty, the Americans would retain the long-term use of more than 50 bases in Iraq. American negotiators are also demanding immunity from Iraqi law for U.S. troops and contractors, and a free hand to carry out arrests and conduct military activities in Iraq without consulting the Baghdad government.
The precise nature of the American demands has been kept secret until now. The leaks are certain to generate an angry backlash in Iraq. "It is a terrible breach of our sovereignty," said one Iraqi politician, adding that if the security deal was signed it would delegitimize the government in Baghdad which will be seen as an American pawn.
The U.S. has repeatedly denied it wants permanent bases in Iraq but one Iraqi source said: "This is just a tactical subterfuge." Washington also wants control of Iraqi airspace below 29,000 ft and the right to pursue its "war on terror" in Iraq, giving it the authority to arrest anybody it wants and to launch military campaigns without consultation.
Bush is determined to force the Iraqi government to sign the so-called "strategic alliance" without modifications, by the end of next month. But it is already being condemned by the Iranians and many Arabs as a continuing American attempt to dominate the region. Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, the powerful and usually moderate Iranian leader, said yesterday that such a deal would create "a permanent occupation". He added: "The essence of this agreement is to turn the Iraqis into slaves of the Americans."
Iraq's Prime Minister, Nouri al-Maliki, is believed to be personally opposed to the terms of the new pact but feels his coalition government cannot stay in power without U.S. backing.
The deal also risks exacerbating the proxy war being fought between Iran and the United States over who should be more influential in Iraq.
Although Iraqi ministers have said they will reject any agreement limiting Iraqi sovereignty, political observers in Baghdad suspect they will sign in the end and simply want to establish their credentials as defenders of Iraqi independence by a show of defiance now. The one Iraqi with the authority to stop deal is the majority Shia spiritual leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. In 2003, he forced the U.S. to agree to a referendum on the new Iraqi constitution and the election of a parliament. But he is said to believe that loss of US support would drastically weaken the Iraqi Shia, who won a majority in parliament in elections in 2005.
The U.S. is adamantly against the new security agreement being put to a referendum in Iraq, suspecting that it would be voted down. The influential Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr has called on his followers to demonstrate every Friday against the impending agreement on the grounds that it compromises Iraqi independence.
The Iraqi government wants to delay the actual signing of the agreement but the office of Vice President Dick Cheney has been trying to force it through. The U.S. ambassador in Baghdad, Ryan Crocker, has spent weeks trying to secure the accord.
The signature of a security agreement, and a parallel deal providing a legal basis for keeping U.S. troops in Iraq, is unlikely to be accepted by most Iraqis. But the Kurds, who make up a fifth of the population, will probably favor a continuing American presence, as will Sunni Arab political leaders who want U.S. forces to dilute the power of the Shia. The Sunni Arab community, which has broadly supported a guerrilla war against U.S. occupation, is likely to be split.
from what was said at the congressional hearings on tuesday or wednesday, the iraqi officals do not want to deal with the bush administration at all, and are waiting for a new president before any deal is reached. do you think bush will be successful in pushing this agreement through, or will it die on the vine? should we maintain a permanent occupation of the country?
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Re: Revealed: Secret Plan to Keep Iraq Under U.S. Control [Re: danknugz81]
#8492185 - 06/06/08 10:14 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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um..since when has that been a "secret"??...
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danknugz81
spiralingdownward
Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 882
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Re: Revealed: Secret Plan to Keep Iraq Under U.S. Control [Re: Annapurna1]
#8492258 - 06/06/08 10:40 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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I didn't name the article. did you even read it?
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C.M. Mann
subconscious explorer
Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 899
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Revealed: Secret Plan to Keep Iraq Under U.S. Control [Re: danknugz81]
#8492378 - 06/06/08 11:16 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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So what! I am sure most Iraqi's would rather they be there. You have to hate the American military to believe that they are not on the side of good in Iraq.
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danknugz81
spiralingdownward
Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 882
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Re: Revealed: Secret Plan to Keep Iraq Under U.S. Control [Re: C.M. Mann]
#8492389 - 06/06/08 11:21 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
C.M. Mann said: So what! I am sure most Iraqi's would rather they be there. You have to hate the American military to believe that they are not on the side of good in Iraq.
its not really a question of hating the american military. that assertion is ridiculous.
the question is do we need to keep spending billions over a long term to occupy a country where our continued occupation is creating animosity against us and weakening our national security?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Revealed: Secret Plan to Keep Iraq Under U.S. Control [Re: danknugz81]
#8493498 - 06/06/08 04:55 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
danknugz81 said:
the question is do we need to keep spending billions over a long term to occupy a country where our continued occupation is creating animosity against us and weakening our national security?
So much bullshit here. Do you mean like the billions we spend in Korea, Japan, & Germany? Do you have any evidence whatsoever that our presence is creating animosity in Iraq? I suspect that whatever animosity they may feel is probably on the decline. Do you have any evidence that our presence in Iraq is weakening our national security? Just what is your concept of national security? How many attacks on America have occurred since the Iraq war began?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Revealed: Secret Plan to Keep Iraq Under U.S. Control [Re: zappaisgod]
#8493522 - 06/06/08 05:04 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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We spend billions in each of those countries every year?
Quote:
How many attacks on America have occurred since the Iraq war began?
I don't think I should have to tell you this, but correlation does not equal causation.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Re: Revealed: Secret Plan to Keep Iraq Under U.S. Control [Re: Redstorm]
#8493545 - 06/06/08 05:11 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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> How many attacks on America have occurred since the Iraq war began?
Do I get to count the patriot act?
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Revealed: Secret Plan to Keep Iraq Under U.S. Control [Re: Seuss]
#8493559 - 06/06/08 05:17 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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/waits for Phred's obligatory "what can you not do now that you could do before the Patriot Act".
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Revealed: Secret Plan to Keep Iraq Under U.S. Control [Re: Redstorm]
#8493677 - 06/06/08 05:53 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: We spend billions in each of those countries every year?
What makes you think it will cost us more in Iraq than it does in those countries once the sooper seekrit plan is enacted?
Quote:
How many attacks on America have occurred since the Iraq war began?
I don't think I should have to tell you this, but correlation does not equal causation.
He made an assertion that our national security has suffered. What possible criterion could he be using other than the good old pull it out of your ass method?
And no, the Patriot Act is not an attack and it has had zero impact on your lives except to increase the level of paranoid apoplexy amongst the professional whiner class.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Revealed: Secret Plan to Keep Iraq Under U.S. Control [Re: zappaisgod]
#8493686 - 06/06/08 05:56 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
What makes you think it will cost us more in Iraq than it does in those countries once the sooper seekrit plan is enacted?
That's not what I asked.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Revealed: Secret Plan to Keep Iraq Under U.S. Control [Re: Redstorm]
#8495714 - 06/07/08 09:26 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
What makes you think it will cost us more in Iraq than it does in those countries once the sooper seekrit plan is enacted?
That's not what I asked.
The strict precise answer to your question, then, is "yes, we do spend billions in those countries".
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Revealed: Secret Plan to Keep Iraq Under U.S. Control [Re: zappaisgod]
#8495719 - 06/07/08 09:29 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Now you know I'm going to ask you for a source.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Revealed: Secret Plan to Keep Iraq Under U.S. Control [Re: Redstorm]
#8495759 - 06/07/08 09:58 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Here's one http://www.heritage.org/research/europe/hl782.cfm
Feel free to use that wondrous Google search feature. I typed in "cost of maintaining US troops in Germany".
Another article: http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=21432&archive=true
Quote:
PLAN 3B: Eliminate nearly all forces from Germany and South Korea
Upfront cost: $6.8 billion to $7.4 billion
Annual cost compared with status quo: -$1.2 billion
CBO analysis: Large cost savings. Cuts family separation time by 22 percent. Substantial increase in deployment time to South Korea. Removal of U.S. forces might increase likelihood of war.
SOURCE: Congressional Budget Office.
I'm sure there are many more.
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