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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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 Re: Why wont people be honest?  [Re: JoseLibrado]
#8472777 - 06/01/08 10:11 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Check out the book Radical Honesty and see if you measure up. I fell flat on my face.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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 JoseLibrado
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Re: Why wont people be honest? [Re: Icelander]
#8472966 - 06/01/08 10:48 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I will only see how I measure up, if I am focused on the idea that I can be measured.
That I am a unique self, better or worse than others.
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The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.
And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.
Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.
Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Re: Why wont people be honest? [Re: JoseLibrado]
#8473852 - 06/02/08 05:26 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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jose,
can you say the main thing of your last post in one sentence?
I really have no clue what you are pointing at now.
did I find the point in your previous post?
if so, did that satisfy your initial request?
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 _  🧠_ 
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JoseLibrado
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Re: Why wont people be honest? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8474069 - 06/02/08 07:47 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I am saying under what circumstances I give information about me to others who believe in ideas that allow for construction of self ie. Most of the people out there to speak to, especially if it is a peice of information that is taken to be very personal and generally unacceptable by the unreasonable standards of society.
You extracted what was being pointed to in the first post.
But
Your answere did not satisfy my appetite to understand your decision surrounding honesty and expressing it.
I am not sure what negotiation means?
And how do you measure how much a person knows about you, in relation to what you know about them?
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The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.
And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.
Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.
Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Re: Why wont people be honest? [Re: JoseLibrado]
#8474110 - 06/02/08 08:19 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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negotiation is when you consider another person's interests and ensure that they consider yours
that is all you need to worry about.
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_ 🧠_
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Why wont people be honest? [Re: JoseLibrado]
#8474502 - 06/02/08 11:20 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
JoseLibrado said:
I will only see how I measure up, if I am focused on the idea that I can be measured.
That I am a unique self, better or worse than others.
Well get it out and lets measure it.
Whether we "focus" or not I have yet to meet the person who never measures themselves.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (06/02/08 11:21 AM)
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JoseLibrado
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Re: Why wont people be honest? [Re: Icelander]
#8474752 - 06/02/08 12:30 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think every person I meet doesnt really measure themselves, not because of their thought processes, but because measuring something, that reflects the beautiful flight of a bird, or the seasons changing in its magnetic flow, is impossible.
Its not really a matter of 'doing' it seems to be a question of possibility.
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The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.
And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.
Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.
Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Re: Why wont people be honest? - negotiation [Re: JoseLibrado]
#8474882 - 06/02/08 12:58 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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you don't need to measure anything,
just allow for what you are aware of
in this case the negotiation is a matter of reminding self and other that an issue exists.
then you allow for that issue.
if you cannot allow for the needs of the other - then there is no result of negotiation, and no sharing will take place.
in this case, sharing of information.
you can only share if both sides agree to do so,
you agree if you are both considerate of the issues of the other.
if you have no time for considering eachothers' issues (the negotiation), you have no time for information. - i.e. you are left out.
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_ 🧠_
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Why wont people be honest? [Re: JoseLibrado]
#8474979 - 06/02/08 01:25 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
JoseLibrado said:
I think every person I meet doesnt really measure themselves, not because of their thought processes, but because measuring something, that reflects the beautiful flight of a bird, or the seasons changing in its magnetic flow, is impossible.
Its not really a matter of 'doing' it seems to be a question of possibility.
I wish I could figure out wtf you are saying. And maybe get some of that drug for myself.
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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JoseLibrado
return
Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Why wont people be honest? - negotiation [Re: redgreenvines]
#8474987 - 06/02/08 01:27 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I was refering to Icelanders post, Redgreevines.
All that makes sense, still i find my question is not answered;
What makes you retract from saying something when sharing information with someone?
--------------------
The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.
And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.
Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.
Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Re: Why wont people be honest? - negotiation [Re: JoseLibrado]
#8475011 - 06/02/08 01:37 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
JoseLibrado said:
I was refering to Icelanders post, Redgreevines.
All that makes sense, still i find my question is not answered;
What makes you retract from saying something when sharing information with someone?
for me it is my entitlement to privacy and the respect of another's dignity too.
this is the basis of my negotiation.
negotiation is a fluid thing, and different with each person or group.
should this be different?
probably some people do it without consideration
as a tight lipped habit of self preservation. I would not blame them.
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_ 🧠_
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JoseLibrado
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Re: Why wont people be honest? - negotiation [Re: JoseLibrado]
#8475023 - 06/02/08 01:43 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I believe what stops people from opening their lives, its events, especially emotional, is embarrassment or guilt or shame, truly identical emotions. an emotion that arises within the focus of "Who I am, can be measured by what emotions and actions i take" and thus "Who i am, can be good or bad, better or worse" whereas the honest truth usually seems to then make a relationship worse, because one of the persons seems worse than the one telling the other.
Refined Version:
What stops us, is our thoughts that make us seem different than others and thus better or worse.
Basically thoughts about us as individuals with a separate identity and not a unified, identical identity.
I can find it difficult with being honest, especially when my intentions do not balance with my emotions...when this occurs i try to go with my intentions to be honest, as if the emotion does not exist.
Actually an interesting story that happened to me a while back showed me that emotion is nothing more than an impulse to act, and even an impulse to question; as in impulses to question ones identity or what others think of your life and you.
My home was recently refurnished and I had just returned from school. It was late at night and the lights were turned off.
As i Walked through the living room in the dark, i began to feel apprehension, and i got an impulse to look down at my feet.
I realized that before there was a table there, a coffee table and since my mind had not been able to recognize that effectivly, indeed after 3 months it still cannot perfectly, it urges me with fear, to look down and manuever my walking direction....its fun at times because I know what the emotion means and I can simply over look, like i can with emotions that leave me with the sense that i should be reclusive and hide my personal biggies, things that affected me alot in my life.
--------------------
The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.
And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.
Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.
Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
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backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
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Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Why wont people be honest? - negotiation [Re: JoseLibrado] 1
#8475036 - 06/02/08 01:46 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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What makes you retract from saying something when sharing information with someone?
A fear of being judged and a lack of confidence??
And, a consideration for where 'they're at.'
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JoseLibrado
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Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Why wont people be honest? - negotiation [Re: JoseLibrado]
#8475104 - 06/02/08 02:15 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Although it would seem to be true that it is fear of feeling bad about our nature, it would be inefficient to believe that because you only trasncend fear, when you Know there is nothing to fear - so it seems that it is what we know that makes us retract.
--------------------
The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.
And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.
Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.
Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
|
backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Why wont people be honest? - negotiation [Re: JoseLibrado]
#8475134 - 06/02/08 02:25 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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so it seems that it is what we know that makes us retract.
Possibly. I've been told a lot of BULLSHIT by mainly the medical community under the influence of some pretty powerful drugs, against my will, ordered by the court.
I really don't give a fuck anymore. But I've noticed that if I don't give a fuck I have the power to make someone pale with the draining routine.
To the point where its like... I'm going to force this idea into your head with pictures and words and symbols, regardless. How it makes you feel is your responsibility.
Hallelujah for REALITY...
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Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,334
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Re: Why wont people be honest? - negotiation [Re: backfromthedead]
#8475269 - 06/02/08 03:03 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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>>>>What makes you retract from saying something when sharing information with someone?
Self judgment and lack of trust. If someone judges themselves, they will expect to be judged by others... and they could be right.
I'm not worthy, so I better be careful what I say. Maybe I can fake it.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
"Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free."
~Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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redgreenvines
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Re: Why wont people be honest? - negotiation [Re: Rahz]
#8475345 - 06/02/08 03:21 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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in christianity, guilt is overstressed.
you can use it as a motivator, but it is much better not to play games with your psyche that way.
whether you are playing with guilt (for fun or because you were conditioned in a christian house) or not, I would give you the space to keep your privacy, as a matter of respect.
now if a person does not respect themselves, that is an different issue.
I hope my cosideration of their dignity helps in a small way.
best to get off the guilt train.
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_ 🧠_
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Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,334
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Re: Why wont people be honest? - negotiation [Re: redgreenvines]
#8475400 - 06/02/08 03:39 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well, low self esteem, and guilt are pretty much the same creature. If a person doesn't respect themselves, they feel guilty about something.
Appearances can be deceptive.
?
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
"Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free."
~Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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JoseLibrado
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Re: Why wont people be honest? - negotiation [Re: Rahz]
#8475521 - 06/02/08 04:15 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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guilt is attacking your emotional self. It is a natural outcome of believing you are the cause of a problem, a negativity.
As being inclined towards positive experience, we naturally attack negative things with negativity, in an attempt to experience positivity. Guilt is the largest obstacle facing my experience and my preference to redirect the source of my thoughts and thus emotions and actions.
It is especially difficult because you are used to believing that your thought are your responsibility and thus the natural reaction when a thought that is negative occurs is attack that which is the source, that which is responsible for it, in this situation and from what we have been taught, ourselves...school is an interesting example, your in grade whatever, and you do a test...what are your parents your teacher your whole world telling you, when they say "Here jose, good job, B plus"
None other than an intrinsic responsibility for our thoughts.
Ironcally enough, the odds are ALWAYS against you when you try to exchange one emotion for another, one thought patter for a nother, one world for another....looking around you hardly see it, and the people who feel and interest for it, are hard to come across in our world, so techniques and overall support is close to nil, ontop of the fact that we've been programmed to feel that our emotions are reflections of reality, instead of what we know to be true; interpretations of what reality should resemble.
Looking at Love movies that shows our cultures main beliefs about emotions, ironically were on the brink of a turn over because people are aware of their emotions but think they can only change them by physical means. Ie. drugs or the gym or getting more friends, ie. lying.
I talk about this mostly when i can with people and everyone around seems to love it, because its a step ahead of where they want to be, its the question for the answere they seek...the sweetness they try to reach. The question being, how can i feel better? The question being; its not really how, but what beliefs make my reality better.
--------------------
The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.
And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.
Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.
Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Re: Why wont people be honest? - negotiation [Re: JoseLibrado]
#8475752 - 06/02/08 05:14 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't love it
I think that it is a sick fascination with guilt and morbidity.
guilt is a non-thing, that is made into a big thing by dysfunctional families and cultures.
I reccommend not being fascinated or involved in it in any way.
everything you say about it is very confusing and confused, even if you think it is evolved or forward oriented.
I guarantee that if you lose the guilt talk and the guilt obsession and you will clear up a great deal, and be a more interesting person.
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_ 🧠_
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