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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #852342 - 08/30/02 12:50 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

In reply to:

Perhaps it's not worded well, but it's obvious that the message is "You'd have to eat 3600 grams of golden rice to get the recommended daily dose of vitamin A."



That may be so.... however whatever increase is provided may be enough to make the difference. The point as I see it is this, there isn't enough information provided here. Maybe the increased amount can make a big difference. Maybe it's just marketing hype. I don't know without more info. How much vitamin A are they getting now? How much more will the "average" person who eats the rice get? Is the increased amount enough to push them into the recommended range?
Without these answers a informed decision can't be made. I don't know the answers. Do you?

In reply to:

I think the question is, are there actually millions of children going blind due to vitamin A deficiencies.



Don't know that either.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #852564 - 08/30/02 06:46 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Nowhere near enough research has been done and essentially we are guinea pigs in an enormous public health experiment so a few corporate bastards at Monsanto can become even richer than they already are.

GM foods have a very good chance of wiping out the entire human race. Using antibiotics in these foods means bacteria will soon adapt and become resistant to them leaving the vast majority of humanity completly defenceless.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #852706 - 08/30/02 08:06 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

****wouldn't you want to be absolutely sure before you started feeding it to them?****

who cares....we can't afford to wait, children are starving to death...help them now extreme sarcasm ...echoes of the global warming debate..sorry


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Xlea321]
    #852746 - 08/30/02 08:32 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

"GM foods have a very good chance of wiping out the entire human race."

Now THAT is an exagerration if I ever heard one.

The issue isn't antibiotics in GM foods, you obviously haven't been reading very carefully. What happens, is they often use antibiotics resistant genes as "marker" genes. Genes that they can easily trace in the newly modified plant, so that they can keep track of where the specific gene they want to transfer is.

Apparently there's a very small chance that this can effect the bacteria in the digestive tract, and that they may adopt the antibiotic resistant gene. The risk of this is extremely low.

According to the FDA, the industry is beginning to stop using antibiotics resistant genes as markers, and are moving on to other alternatives.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #852820 - 08/30/02 09:31 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Apparently there's a very small chance that this can effect the bacteria in the digestive tract, and that they may adopt the antibiotic resistant gene

That's really put my mind at rest...

bacteria resistant to antibiotics = the end of civilisation. Pretty high stakes we're playing for here. Is it worth it?

The only benefit is going to be to Monsanto directors, the third world is going to catch hell, Monsanto only ship sterile seeds so farmers can't become self-sufficient. Once the GM crops are planted the land will be effectively useless for natural foods. Monsanto will then drive up the price of seeds to whatever level they need to boost their share price.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


Edited by Alex123 (08/30/02 09:37 AM)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Xlea321]
    #852824 - 08/30/02 09:36 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Well, I can see you're a scientist...

In case you didn't know, something like 99% of the bacteria out there is harmless.

There's already tons of bacteria resistant to antibiotics, and GM food don't have the slightest thing to do with it. The use of antibiotics does.

Diseases are constantly mutating. I'm not too frightened by the "superbug" threat, but it is possible that it could cause an epidemic of sorts. Saying that it's going to cause the end of civilization is silly paranoid reactionist bullshit.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlineamanita3
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #852827 - 08/30/02 09:37 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Big problem is that Mexico & Central America is where Corn originated, and where the most genetic diversity exists. When the FrankenCorn's pollen wafts over in the wind to pollenise the Native strains the result is that succeeding generations are all BASTARDISED by the FRANKENGENES.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #852831 - 08/30/02 09:40 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Yeah, lets listen to some scientists,

Eating GM food can change the genetic make-up of your digestive system and could put you at risk of infections that are resistant to antibiotics, experts said today.

A British study has revealed that volunteers who ate one meal containing genetically modified soya had traces of the modified DNA in bacteria in their small intestines.

Scientists now fear that GM foods, which are often modified to be resistant to antibiotics, will leave Britons vulnerable to untreatable diseases. The research contradicts repeated claims by the GM industry that gene transfer from foods to humans is extremely unlikely. It also raises the possibility that millions of people may already have GM bacteria from food they have eaten.

Geneticist Dr Michael Antoniou, London, said the results indicated the need for an extensive GM foods testing programme. He added: "The most significant finding is that there is GM soya DNA in the bacteria at readily detectable levels in the small intestines. It was always said by the industry that this could not happen or was extremely unlikely."

Dr Antoniou added: "Bacteria in the gut are going to take up genes that will make them resistant to potentially therapeutic antibiotics. The possibility is that someone who picked up the antibiotic resistance through food and then fell ill, that a medical antibiotic might not be effective."


http://www.progress.org/gene84.htm


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Xlea321]
    #852889 - 08/30/02 10:14 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Read that article more carefully. Antibiotic resistant genes were not passed on, HERBICIDE resistant genes were.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #853160 - 08/30/02 12:35 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Read it again. Particularly this:

According to Michael Antoniou, a senior lecturer in molecular genetics at King's College Medical School in London, the study "suggests that you can get antibiotic marker genes spreading amongst the bacterial population within the intestine which could compromise future antibiotic use. They have shown that this can happen even at very low levels after just one meal."

Given the research results, Friends of the Earth is calling for the immediate withdrawal of genetically engineered crops containing antibiotic resistance markers from the market. The organization also calls for further research into the effects of gene transfer to bacteria.

In May 1999, the British Medical Association also called for a ban of crops with antibiotic resistance marker genes stating, "There should be a ban on the use of antibiotic resistance marker genes in GM food, as the risk to human health from antibiotic resistance developing in micro-organisms is one of the major public health threats that will be faced in the 21st Century."


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Xlea321]
    #853171 - 08/30/02 12:42 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

It "suggests", it proves absolutely nothing.

Certainly using antibiotic resistant marker genes isn't the best, but like I said earlier, the trend nowadays is to use other benign marker genes.

The article is from a site that takes a definate anti-GM stance, and it definately fits into the "biased" catagory. Like all the information out there.

I'll talk to my dad about this tommorow, he's a scientist and does genetics research related to cancer. He knows all about this genetics shit.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #853201 - 08/30/02 01:03 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Suggests is good enough for me. If there's a billion to one chance my kid's health is going to be compromised in any way by this shit I want a choice over whether they eat it or not. Right now we have no choice - it has been introduced into the food chain without our consent and without the foggiest idea of what effect it will have on us or the environment. Already with test crops in the UK the resistant genes have been found in weeds miles away. Once the country is contaminated it can never be uncontaminated. You do not take risks like that with our environment simply because a few corporate directors want big profits.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Xlea321]
    #853210 - 08/30/02 01:09 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Dude
There's more than a billion to one chance your kid is going to drop dead after eating a Big Mac, or a vitamin pill, or even a non GM apple.

"it has been introduced into the food chain without our consent"

Well geez, I don't seem to recall being asked when they introduced flies into the food chain. Or grass, or trees, or whatever the hell you can think of.

Will GM foods have a negative effect? Who knows, but I think we should spend more time researching them before we start selling them regularly.

I definately think it's pretty naive to think we can just eliminate their presence. They are inevitable.



--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #853218 - 08/30/02 01:15 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

I have a choice whether i eat the big mac tho.

Not sure you quite understand - flies in the food chain are normal. Selective breeding is normal. Introducing a gene from an arctic fish into a tomato plant isn't normal. Arctic fish to my knowledge don't mate with tomato plants.

We can't eliminate their presence in America because Monsanto introduced them without anyone knowing about it. We can certainly stop them being introduced anywhere else in the world - the UK is dead against them and the public has refused to eat contaminated food. We need to support places like this.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Xlea321]
    #855503 - 08/31/02 08:23 PM (19 years, 26 days ago)

I'm sure everyone agrees that it's not normal. The question is, is it bad?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #855670 - 08/31/02 10:00 PM (19 years, 26 days ago)

That's why we needed decades of research before it was even thought safe to introduce into the human food chain.

It might be safe, it might kill us all. That's not the kind of risk I like taking.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Xlea321]
    #856296 - 09/01/02 08:36 AM (19 years, 26 days ago)

They didn't do decades of research for Twinkies, I don't think they even tasted them before millions of kids were eating them on a daily basis.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #856556 - 09/01/02 11:01 AM (19 years, 26 days ago)

Yeah but chocolate has been being used for around 10,000 years. It's got a pretty good track record.

And once again, I don't have to eat twinkies. I have a choice not to. I have no choice about GM food because it's in soya that has contaminated the entire food chain.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Xlea321]
    #856740 - 09/01/02 12:16 PM (19 years, 26 days ago)

I don't get it. Twinkies don't have any chocolate in them. Neither do tomatoes. Twinkies are like, some oil based sugar filling, and some oil based yellow cakey outside. Then the other 93% are preservatives and artificals colours and flavours. Weird shit.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #857726 - 09/01/02 08:37 PM (19 years, 25 days ago)

Sorry man, I'm in england. I have no idea what "twinkies" are. I assumed they were a chocolate bar.

If you're so totally confident GM foods are safe then go ahead and feed your baby as much GM food as you can stuff down him. I won't stop you. I'd just like the choice of not feeding my baby it. Ok?


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