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OfflinePhluck
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Genetically Modified Foods
    #846197 - 08/27/02 08:28 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I've been trying to figure out what to think on this issue. On the one hand, I've read about various dangers, but a lot of them seem exagerrated or misrepresented. Same thing with the articles in support, when I can't find any unbiased info, it makes it pretty damn hard to form an opinion.

Now I know a bunch of you are going to respond "GM foods are evil, ban them!" or "GM foods are perfectly safe, you stupid hippies!", but both arguments would probably be based entirely on the biased info I've been looking through. Anyone have any real resources?


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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Anonymous

Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #846209 - 08/27/02 08:36 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The goals of genetically altering foods are good: more disease and drought resistant reducing the need for chemicals to control pests and parasites, reducing the need for fertilizers, increasing production. Humans have been attempting these things as long as they have been practicing agriculture, and in so doing have altered the genetics of food sources via selective breeding. I think the risks are over stated (but every human endeavor involves risk) and the possible benefits are enormous.


Edited by Anonymous (08/27/02 08:37 AM)


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: ]
    #846218 - 08/27/02 08:41 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I agree that it is probable the benefits of genetically engineered food outweigh the negative aspects, but from what I understand, the danger with genetically engineered crops is that it makes them all one "strain"...and if a new disease or foreign species of insect adapts to the new strain then the entire crop is ruined. At least with natural selection there will be at least a portion of the crops that would survive.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (08/27/02 08:41 AM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Rono]
    #846236 - 08/27/02 08:56 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

i remember having this discussion a while back and i will admit that I have no expertise in the issue. With that said there will always be people gardening in thier back yard with the regular strains of fruits and veggies so i don't see the risk of just one strain being that big of a concern...commercially? possibly but highly unlikly. Just think when everyone is selling the one starin corn, i can sell my "all natural" corn for twice the amount.....I see opportunity


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Innvertigo]
    #846242 - 08/27/02 09:01 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, I was referring to commercial crops, not backyard gardens...and I suppose there would be a market for "all natural" corn....somewhat ironic isn't it?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Rono]
    #846247 - 08/27/02 09:06 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

sure is ironic...i'm going to sell all natural air and water in the next couple of years


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: ]
    #846251 - 08/27/02 09:09 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Ultimately, I see them being very beneficial, but there are dozens of "risks". Some real, some not. Apparently people have died from allergic reactions that were introduced when new proteins were added to plants. Apparently.

The "all one strain" thing is more of a problem with the companies that market the seeds, and the way they do that than with the act of genetically modifying foods.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Innvertigo]
    #846252 - 08/27/02 09:09 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I think it's already being done my man...(ie Oxygen bars, bottled spring water etc...) I think fresh water will soon be as valuable as oil.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #846254 - 08/27/02 09:11 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Also, I've read that a lot of commercially available vegetables now are lower in nutrients. This might just be a breeding thing, and not genetic modification. They breed the plants to look good, and not for the nutritional value.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Rono]
    #846343 - 08/27/02 09:59 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

yeah but i'm going to lable it "ALL NATURAL"


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Innvertigo]
    #846634 - 08/27/02 12:08 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Even backyard gardens are grown from geneticly altered stock...

Duno about Canada but here in the US "Heirloom" fruits and vegetables are the only thing left from the good tasteing unaltered stocks from a century ago...
At any garden supply store they have heirloom variety seeds of all sorts of diferent things and things grown with that "heirloom" lable taste better.


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Anonymous

Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #846640 - 08/27/02 12:09 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Also, I've read that a lot of commercially available vegetables now are lower in nutrients.
Currently, many crops are picked before they become ripe because if they were picked while ripe, they would rot before most could be sold. This results in a lower nutritional value (if memory serves). This is another area in which genetic engineering is attempting to improve things.

Regarding the idea of only one strain being used commercially, this is one more area where we as citizens must be vigilant of our elected representatives and mindful of how rhetoric which appeals to our fears may be used against us as consumers. Here's what I see could happen, company A (let's call them Monsanto) is the first to market with a new variety of genetically engineered tomato. This product becomes well established in the market achieving near monopoly status and proves profitable to the company. A couple of years later, company B (a start up firm) comes up with a new an improved genetically engineered tomato. Company A had foreseen this possible development and has worked behind the scenes to influence several Congress people to pass new legislation severely limiting the possibility of marketing of newly genetically engineered foods and requiring 10 years of FDA testing and an expensive and lengthy application process. Products already on the market will be grandfathered in as acceptable. The legislation gets endorsement from all the usual left wing suspects and passes as 'a triumph for the environment and public health.'

The results: bio-diversity is limited, politicians get funding and support for re-election, left wingers feel good about themselves and the government, a large company fends off competition and watches a smaller start up with a better product go bankrupt, and consumers/taxpayers are left with an unknown number of possible future choices taken away from them by the system all the while being conned into believing that their best interests are being looked after.


Edited by Anonymous (08/27/02 04:02 PM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: GabbaDj]
    #847100 - 08/27/02 03:41 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

My back yard is full of "Heirloom" tomatoes and just because it's "altered" doesn't mean it will be the same strain ie: hybrids.

i think this is just a topic that many are against but don't really know why


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinewingnutx
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #849366 - 08/28/02 03:23 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I'm all for GM foods such as "golden rice". The benefits (saving literally millions of children from blindness) outweight any drawbacks that I've heard of so far.

Just about any modern crop has been drastically altered through cross-breeding, anyway. True, this is not the same as introducing entirely foreign genes, but it's amazing how many people think that corn has always been all yellow.

One of the main reasons that founder Patrick Moore left Greenpeace was their mindless opposition to any GM at all, no matter what risk/benefit analysis was.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: wingnutx]
    #850656 - 08/29/02 09:08 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Saying that a little extra vitamin A in rice is going to save millions of children from blindness sounds like a bit of an exagerration if you ask me.

"Greenpeace said figures provided by the developers of golden rice show an adult would have to eat at least 12 times the average of 300 grams of rice daily to get the daily recommended amount of vitamin A."

Greenpeace certainly does have some silly views on GM foods, but this sounds like a perfectly valid point.

Remember though, pretty much anyone who has anything at all to say about GM foods has some kind of bias. It seems like you can't get an opinion from anyone other than environmental groups that are 100% against, or big companies that are 100% for.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #851372 - 08/29/02 03:51 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

Saying that a little extra vitamin A in rice is going to save millions of children from blindness sounds like a bit of an exagerration if you ask me.



Maybe this rice, combined with whatever they get now (Vitamin A), is enough to make the difference.

In reply to:

"Greenpeace said figures provided by the developers of golden rice show an adult would have to eat at least 12 times the average of 300 grams of rice daily to get the daily recommended amount of vitamin A."



Maybe the amount that they will get from eating even a "normal" amount of this rice is 12 times what they are getting now.

In reply to:

Greenpeace certainly does have some silly views on GM foods, but this sounds like a perfectly valid point.



Yes they do. No it doesn't, at least not unless more information is provided.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #851511 - 08/29/02 05:11 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Perhaps it's not worded well, but it's obvious that the message is "You'd have to eat 3600 grams of golden rice to get the recommended daily dose of vitamin A."

I think the question is, are there actually millions of children going blind due to vitamin A deficiencies.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Phluck]
    #851592 - 08/29/02 06:09 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

****I think the question is, are there actually millions of children going blind due to vitamin A deficiencies.****

who cares...it's for the children..........


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Offlinewingnutx
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: ]
    #851671 - 08/29/02 06:56 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

I've read that a lot of commercially available vegetables now are lower in nutrients.
Currently, many crops are picked before they become ripe because if they were picked while ripe, they would rot before most could be sold.




This is why frozen veggies often have a lot more nutrients than 'fresh' ones, since they are picked and frozen when they are ripe.

Nothing beats fresh out of the ground, though. O raising your own veal. Mmmmmmm fresh.

BTW, it is actually Beta-carotine that makes the rice golden, and prevents blindness. Natural rice has none at all.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Genetically Modified Foods [Re: Innvertigo]
    #852146 - 08/29/02 10:02 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

"who cares...it's for the children.......... "

Lots of people seem to be saying that there are health risks. Whether it's true or not, wouldn't you want to be absolutely sure before you started feeding it to them?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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