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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ?
    #8459679 - 05/29/08 01:26 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I want this concept to be regarded as simple as possible, as I just stumbled in recent times about that question. I think it's quite tricky, as love is tricky itself (like it can change from false to true love and vice versa). Or how love can be seen in animal or plant life. Or evil as a subjectively relative concept as well.
Is it worth breaking this concept/hypothesis down ?

What do you think ?

Restart fresh again, not from old texts but from ourselves being here and now ?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #8459780 - 05/29/08 02:00 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

expecting what someone else seems to have,
maybe?


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #8459876 - 05/29/08 02:27 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I really feel that right NOW there is a generation of lost lovers that are filled to the brim with ANGER.
Because...  What is true, right, and love to them...  Is not what is being displayed by those claiming to 'know'.
Real people are betrayed in a sense by this hollow charade that we call reality because it is out of sync.
Those able to extend love to those they hate are working overtime and are exhausted.
I feel at the core of the human organism there are thousands of years of Divine Discontent from being purposely cut off from the source.
There are those who would rather control than allow any real freedom of consciousness.  I hope the followers will wake up to this.
I feel anger everyday because the average person is happy with this shit, and possibly doesn't even see, and will never see.
Who convinced the world is what I am angry about.
Where are these storytellers and how come its not working??

Then...  I'm told that I'm wrong.  I'm told that I need medication.
Unfulfilled love....  YOU BET YOUR ASS.:mad2:

Acceptance??  Why?? 
I will take anyone's hate and turn it into love.
Now take this hate and know its because I care enough to still love you...  Earth.:rolleyes:

Change for us??  Cause man we really don't feel at home anymore.

Kids are fucking snapping... :hulk:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #8460654 - 05/29/08 05:33 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ?




Perhaps sadness, wanting, and loneliness, not so sure about evil.... 
Fulfilled love can help you bring out the best possible version of yourself....
Not so sure that unfulfilled love would help bring out the worst possible version....
Perhaps I missed the question, completely....(?)    :ohwell:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8461301 - 05/29/08 08:09 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Wow man unfulfilled love says it good.

Perhaps we will die with it still unfulfilled, as people did in the past. Or maybe we were born for such a time.

Keep your spirits high...I think a big shift is happening before our eyes. It will get worse before it gets better.

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #8461358 - 05/29/08 08:19 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I think a big shift is happening before our eyes.
It will get worse before it gets better.




Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't that be two shifts coming....?
(current gear)  SHIFT--> (worse gear)  SHIFT--> (better gear)

:ohwell:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #8461632 - 05/29/08 09:21 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
I want this concept to be regarded as simple as possible, as I just stumbled in recent times about that question. I think it's quite tricky, as love is tricky itself (like it can change from false to true love and vice versa). Or how love can be seen in animal or plant life. Or evil as a subjectively relative concept as well.
Is it worth breaking this concept/hypothesis down ?

What do you think ?

Restart fresh again, not from old texts but from ourselves being here and now ?




Early on nurturing and love are mucho importanto for peaceful human relations IMO.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Icelander]
    #8461923 - 05/29/08 10:23 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
I want this concept to be regarded as simple as possible, as I just stumbled in recent times about that question. I think it's quite tricky, as love is tricky itself (like it can change from false to true love and vice versa). Or how love can be seen in animal or plant life. Or evil as a subjectively relative concept as well.
Is it worth breaking this concept/hypothesis down ?

What do you think ?

Restart fresh again, not from old texts but from ourselves being here and now ?




Early on nurturing and love are mucho importanto for peaceful human relations IMO.




Good or bad guidance by parents affects everyone. :thumbup:

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Offlinenubious
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Icelander]
    #8462119 - 05/29/08 11:25 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

Early on nurturing and love are mucho importanto for peaceful human relations IMO.




True, but even disregarded infants can grow up to be advocates of kindness..  Think of social un-fulfillment..  Of every boy who's ever felt cheated by the television..  Ever girl who's told she can find true love..  Every Sunday when Grandma doesn't hear her reassurance from God that everything is going to be ok.. 

It's layers about layers upon layers...  And backfromthedead is absolutely correct in saying that reality is out of sync..  We've become to distracted by our material pleasures..  Too accustomed to being told what we need and what we should accomplish next..

Humans haven't evolved to relax.  They're go go go..  We've always had to chase the next meal, or find shelter for those we care about, and now that those needs are taken care of (on the grand-time-line), we're content with sitting back and being lazy, only we've lost touch in our connectedness during our quest for comfort - We've forgotten how to show compassion for those we may not know..  OUR Needs are met, so why worry about the next guy?  He's only going to steal our dinner if we don't get it first anyways, right?

LAYERS
AYERSL
YERSLA
ERSLAY
RSLAYE
SLAYER <-- woah reading that trips me out..  MAYBE IT'S ANOTHER SYNCHRONICITY! STEAL MY DINNER!  SLAYER!  GET IT GUYS?  IT MUST MEAN SOMETHING!

[note that I'm a believer in a synchronicity and the above-sarcasm is meant to serve as comedic relief]

:wink:

:1up: (I fucking <3 this 1up emoticon!)


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: nubious]
    #8462223 - 05/29/08 11:57 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

>>>>Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ?

Yes, perfect. It is because people entertain the idea that they aren't loved, that shit starts, and is perpetuated. But who's fault? There is no unfulfilled love, because the love people truly seek is within them, patiently waiting for them to "let go" of the idea that they aren't loved.

I believe there is a situation now, and throughout the most of history, where this desire for love is harnessed, rather than taught to be transcended, but I also think people are choosing it. It is instinctive, many betas, few alphas. It's each individuals responsibility to become their own alpha, and if a person chooses to take the easy path, it's because on some level, they like it. They want to be a slave and cash in some freedom for some sympathy. I think that if any heaven exists, it exists Now. Entertaining this belief, makes me consider that people have reasons, not for being unloved, but for wanting to be unloved. It's a choice made in illusion, but the proper answer is the one that teaches. On some level, people want to know what it's like to be unloved. Bite that apple.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Rahz]
    #8462243 - 05/30/08 12:03 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)



--------------------

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Offlinenubious
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Rahz]
    #8462254 - 05/30/08 12:06 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I believe there is a situation now, and throughout the most of history, where this desire for love is harnessed, rather than taught to be transcended, but I also think people are choosing it. It is instinctive, many betas, few alphas. It's each individuals responsibility to become their own alpha, and if a person chooses to take the easy path, it's because on some level, they like it. 1 They want to be a slave and cash in some freedom for some sympathy. 2 I think that if any heaven exists, it exists Now. Entertaining this belief, makes me consider that people have reasons, not for being unloved, but for wanting to be unloved. It's a choice made in illusion, but the proper answer is the one that teaches. On some level, people want to know what it's like to be unloved. 3 Bite that apple.




O. Snap.

1. Perhaps because the sympathy provides the temporary satisfaction of being loved, they instinctively persue the 'here and now' love as opposed to the 'unconditional' love?

2. I agree. People want what they don't have, and in the beginning, there was Adam, Eve, and the Apple, by the doctrine of those who follow that story.. Metaphors or not, there was unconditional love at one point, and it's like people needed to know, and in knowing they were cast down... So many layers.. upon layers.. upon layers.. ack.. (you blew my mind by the way with your response in it's entirety... good post!)

3. It's all Eve's fault.


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8462263 - 05/30/08 12:08 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)



It might bite back!


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Rahz]
    #8462290 - 05/30/08 12:14 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Possibly a braeBURN.


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OfflineTantradvaita
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8462798 - 05/30/08 06:49 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

We take objectives in our existence to be the source of what brings us love/peace/joy, overlooking that love/peace/joy is actually our constitutional state. Taking these objectives as the source of our love breeds competetiveness, greed & a general "mine" to aquire attitude.


When we eat, have sex, or do anything that brings us peace then we are returned to our original Self, its is only a dream that we leave this Self through identification with thoughts that we then attach to, resulting in mental conditioning, taking these objects to be the source of our contentment. These objectives do NOT bring us happyness they simply quieten the mind by bringing peace and we return to the source. Then we find something new to quire and don't rest until it is aquired, only to return to where we started from, this is one of the ultimate paradoxes of life, we do not aquire anything, EVER! We only return to where we started from!

The fundamental thought that causes this is "i am the body/mind" which is an obvious mistake to make, all beings think obviously "i am this body", its plainly obvious! Simply remaining as the awareness of the body/minds functioning you realise this detached observation is joy, happyness, loving & peaceful, and all it was is that you have been trained to seek outwards for sources of pleasure & experience.

Missing the obvious is the understatement of eternity, the most simple primal awareness without any thought or mental construct is what we always are, we never leave it except in thoughts we think we leave it. These thoughts change over the course of a lifetime defining what we call a personality, ever changing, the only constant is the awareness.

The all pervading cosmic consciousness, the very source of all objectivity can not exist without the subject to see it, turn your attention toward the subject and dont look back. You are this cosmic consciousness you only think otherwise!

Love is eternally fullfilled, it can not be any other way, we only believe we are unfullfilled. That's life.



--------------------
"Don't keep searching for truth, simply let go of your beliefs" Buddha

Edited by Tantradvaita (05/30/08 06:56 AM)

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Tantradvaita]
    #8463000 - 05/30/08 09:19 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

You are this cosmic consciousness you only think otherwise!

Dude, this is not enough.
I have a drive to turn it on the immediate world around me.
Ignoring reality is not the way, friend.

"Don't keep searching for truth, simply let go of your beliefs" Buddha

This is Bullshit, imo.


--------------------

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8463219 - 05/30/08 10:34 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I think a big shift is happening before our eyes.
It will get worse before it gets better.




Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't that be two shifts coming....?
(current gear)  SHIFT--> (worse gear)  SHIFT--> (better gear)

:ohwell:


>^;;^<




You are correct. Most of the world is in the worse gear shift already, I think its coming to America with this recession. (dollar hyperinflation, oil 200$+ barrel)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: nubious]
    #8464289 - 05/30/08 04:15 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

True, but even disregarded infants can grow up to be advocates of kindness..

Therapists will tell you that these lucky few still found someone to give them an example of loving respect. Often a relative, neighbor or teacher etc.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Icelander]
    #8464510 - 05/30/08 05:10 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Or a caring online elder... :hug:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8464805 - 05/30/08 06:21 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Which you and I are by the way.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: nubious]
    #8467223 - 05/31/08 12:33 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

>>>>1. Perhaps because the sympathy provides the temporary satisfaction of being loved, they instinctively persue the 'here and now' love as opposed to the 'unconditional' love?

I think the part of the story that was left out, was where Adam started feeling sick after eating the fruit and passed out in the woods. Eve kept on truckin' and sympathy is a cry out for a man. What she needs to do is head out in the woods, find Adam, and wake his ass up. No one can take his place. There's a component of love in sympathy, but half full, half empty, same difference.

3. It's all Eve's fault.

Dirty bitch. :lol:      :heartpump:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

Edited by Rahz (05/31/08 12:34 PM)

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #8467367 - 05/31/08 01:15 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I mean, if our (or world's) love would be fulfilled, one would be happy what is, and what is to come.
Maybe unfulfilled love is the cause of desire ? And suffering is another word for evil ?

Love I see in a very wide spectrum, not only, but primarily what we feel and make of it, but indeed I widen its meaning onto everything existing.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #8467486 - 05/31/08 02:10 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I agree. I can see everything as an act of love. Eve was trying to impress Adam, and Adam was trying to impress Eve. In fact, Eve is still trying to impress Adam. She's gonna conquer the world, and then go find Adam. He'll be so proud of her... :rolleyes:

>>Though lovers be lost love shall not :thumbup:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Rahz]
    #8467725 - 05/31/08 03:22 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

And the snake? Who was he in love with?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineBoots
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Icelander]
    #8468388 - 05/31/08 07:13 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

It may have already been brought up but I think a clear definition should be presented for this conversation.

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Icelander]
    #8469026 - 05/31/08 10:36 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

>>>>And the snake? Who was he in love with?

Who or what is the snake?

Kundalini, it seems to me. It may Snake up through the body (tree), and it's from "down below".

The snake loves everyone, but not everyone likes the snake enough to hang out and make friends with it.

Three's company.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Rahz]
    #8472570 - 06/01/08 09:21 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

You know, the snake in the garden of eden.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Icelander]
    #8472803 - 06/01/08 10:16 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

>>>>You know, the snake in the garden of eden.

That is the snake I'm referring to. :thumbup:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Rahz]
    #8472816 - 06/01/08 10:17 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry,:blush: I had a brain fart.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinedirtworshipper
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #8483183 - 06/04/08 11:01 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

perhaps evil stems from ignorance?
perhaps a lack of love leads to ignorance?
perhaps ignorance is not realizing the love thats always there if you want it?

:smileyfrog:
perhaps


--------------------

“You've got as many lives as you like, and more, even ones you don't want.” - George Harrison

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #8488234 - 06/05/08 12:41 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

And greed, overpowered ego importance, (emotional) addiction, physical feedings are used to compensate that 'lack' which exists by 'unfulfilled' love, which I also call 'false' love.
This in itself can become a circle of addiction.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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InvisibleQuantumReality
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Icelander]
    #8488436 - 06/05/08 01:37 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

No theres definately not enough love in the world.
What were stuck in is a materialistic ratrace all wanting a bigger piece of cheese thinking its what we need to be happy and complete, but that doesnt work at all. I hope one day the whole world will wake up and be conscious.

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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #8490615 - 06/05/08 10:14 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I don't think unfulfilled love is the main cause for evil in the world. If you think of people as cups of love, then what you are saying is that having a cup that isn't full makes you a victim. Instead of accepting responsibility for themselves, people make themselves into victims or even victimizers. No one ever said life would be easy, and everyone finds out that their only real responsibility to themselves as loving human beings is to constantly fill their own cup so that it overflows. If you want to be loved you have to be love.


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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8491444 - 06/06/08 02:18 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

backfromthedead said:
You are this cosmic consciousness you only think otherwise!

Dude, this is not enough. 
I have a drive to turn it on the immediate world around me.
Ignoring reality is not the way, friend.

"Don't keep searching for truth, simply let go of your beliefs" Buddha

This is Bullshit, imo.




Agreed.

"There is a flaw with words, they always force us to feel enlightened, but when we turn around to face the world they always fail us and we end up facing the world as we always have, without enlightenment" -- Carlos Castaneda. it's ironic that I quoted this quote based on the context.


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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Icelander]
    #8491542 - 06/06/08 02:58 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
I want this concept to be regarded as simple as possible, as I just stumbled in recent times about that question. I think it's quite tricky, as love is tricky itself (like it can change from false to true love and vice versa). Or how love can be seen in animal or plant life. Or evil as a subjectively relative concept as well.
Is it worth breaking this concept/hypothesis down ?

What do you think ?

Restart fresh again, not from old texts but from ourselves being here and now ?




Early on nurturing and love are mucho importanto for peaceful human relations IMO.




:lighter:

yet...I do wonder; is "nurture" (as in nature vs nurture) always the main component behind sociopathic characteristics, Narcissistic personality disorder,  general antisocial behaviour?

So then; an idea I find curious, and rather perplexing is not just "unfulfilled love" but inability to love, empathise or generally identify with others.

Does anyone find it possible, that aside from the nurture theory, that a human could lack the ability to love?


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8492189 - 06/06/08 10:15 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Naturally ? I don't think that one could be born with this disability. Even heavy mentally disabled persons 'normally' show an urge of/for love.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8492255 - 06/06/08 10:38 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

'...that a human could lack the ability to love?'

Does everybody deserve love.  Or are they just here for the taking.


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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #8492299 - 06/06/08 10:53 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Naturally ? I don't think that one could be born with this disability. Even heavy mentally disabled persons 'normally' show an urge of/for love.




I am not so convinced that love is always  "natural" to feel, and taken for granted by those that do feel it.

This is the tree I am barking up...;)http://www.supplements4brainrelief.com/neurotransmitters.htm

"Dopamine:  Anhedonia - No pleasure, world looks colorless, inability to "love", no remorse about personal behavior"

Although this is assuming that our perception of love is based in chemical reactions...

I see this as a contender for "evil in the world", beyond unfulfilled love, to love that just isn't there to begin with...

Perhaps I just feel particularly pessimistic right now.


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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8492854 - 06/06/08 02:03 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

You might want to check up on dopamine on a website which is not selling "supplements."  Dopamine

The experience which many call "love" is, in fact, the chemical high more accurately called "infatuation" or Limerance.

The chemicals responsible for limerance are PEA (phenylethylamine), dopamine and norepinephrine. Theoretically, if one were deficient in one or more of these chemicals, it would be difficult or impossible to experience infatuation.

In my experience, love is quite different from infatuation.  The choice to be loving is volitional, and involves a connection to another being which will continue regardless of circumstances.  It has little or nothing to do with their personality, career, hobbies, compatibility or cute butt.  :grin:

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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Veritas]
    #8492876 - 06/06/08 02:11 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I like Limerancks.

A young man became infatuated
'Cuz his dopamine levels down-regulated

She is such a dream
When my norepinephrine

Has my brain fully saturated.

:loveeyes:


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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Veritas]
    #8492912 - 06/06/08 02:22 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Infusion of PEA increased extracellular levels of dopamine[2] while at the same time inhibiting DA neuron firings.[3][4] It also modulates noradrenergic transmission.[5] It has GABAergic antagonism.[6]

Low levels are found in ADHD[7] and often in depression, while levels are elevated in schizophrenia.[8] This is associated with low dopamine in ADHD and depression and high dopamine in schizophrenia.
-Wiki

The stuff as a food additive is...  Divisive.  Not so much when its naturally occurring.  I know I'm absolutely COOKOO for Cocoa PuffsTM.  Anybody else...??:uptosomething:


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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Veritas]
    #8494565 - 06/06/08 11:06 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
You might want to check up on dopamine on a website which is not selling "supplements."  Dopamine

The experience which many call "love" is, in fact, the chemical high more accurately called "infatuation" or Limerance.

The chemicals responsible for limerance are PEA (phenylethylamine), dopamine and norepinephrine. Theoretically, if one were deficient in one or more of these chemicals, it would be difficult or impossible to experience infatuation.

In my experience, love is quite different from infatuation.  The choice to be loving is volitional, and involves a connection to another being which will continue regardless of circumstances.  It has little or nothing to do with their personality, career, hobbies, compatibility or cute butt.  :grin:





I had that one coming...it was more the train of thought that I was referring to...but yes, I admit shifty, especially for pedantic taste.
Fair enough.

Thanks for the links.:thumbup:

So, love we experience different types of "love" one more accurately called infatuation. Yep...nothing new there.
So what is this other love, unconditional "which will continue regardless of circumstances" is this not chemical, and if it is...chemical and physical can it not be deficient?
If it is beyond our minds and bodies, what is love?

Curiously as a side note, I have been unable to find a very accurate antonym for the word "empathy"...all that I can rustle up seems to be for "sympathy"
Do you know what it would be? One word is what I am after, not a definition.


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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8494616 - 06/06/08 11:22 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

empathy

compassion??


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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8494651 - 06/06/08 11:31 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

backfromthedead said:
empathy

compassion??




is that meant as an antonym?

what about indifference?

Hm not convinced.


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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8494659 - 06/06/08 11:32 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

figmentfragment said:
Quote:

backfromthedead said:
empathy

compassion??




is that meant as an antonym?

what about indifference?

Hm not convinced.




Shit.  Antonym...  Missed that.  Apologies.


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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #8494770 - 06/06/08 11:57 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

:sip: all good.


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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8494977 - 06/07/08 01:02 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Yea, I don't understand 'unconditional' love either.
It means, even if the other hurts himself or others, let him do but love him ? Like Jesus said, don't love the sin, but love the sinner ?
Of course, everybody has to learn from ones' mistakes, but what if those mistakes were fatal ? Is it unconditional love to let the other one die by his mistakes ? Yes, that sounds like indifference and not like 'love'.
Love has to do with attention, caring, truth and health imho.
So maybe unconditional love also is a form of 'false' love, because it accepts lies and hurting, for example, which imho are the opposite to love and so produce 'unfullfilled' love as cause of evil :sun:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #8496888 - 06/07/08 05:33 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry BlueCoyote I don't know who I shall reply this to, so I will just let it reply to the last.

Does anyone know more about this topic?

Is is possible for a human to be unable to feel and express love, any sort of love or empathy for another person (in a chemical neurological sense.)

Veritas aptly pointed out my errors and added some interesting details, but sidestepped the actual question at the same time.

The most I have been able to find is concerning sociopath disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder...

If a person can not feel love or empathy or sympathy even, for another person or animal...then what would stop this person committing all types of evil acts????

okay I am just bugging out now. I will stop.


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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8497326 - 06/07/08 08:19 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

So what is this other love, unconditional "which will continue regardless of circumstances" is this not chemical, and if it is...chemical and physical can it not be deficient?

Since we are chemical as bodies then you could say it is chemical. An example of  deficiency where love was not possible would be death.:lol:

My personal belief is that unconditional love is the only definition of love that makes any real sense. Anything else I would term addiction or attachment.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (06/07/08 08:20 PM)

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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Icelander]
    #8497355 - 06/07/08 08:25 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
[Since we are chemical as bodies then you could say it is chemical. An example of  deficiency where love was not possible would be death.:lol:





:wetself:

:rofl:


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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: Icelander]
    #8497370 - 06/07/08 08:29 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I have yet to see any evidence of unconditional love.


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Re: Unfulfilled love as main cause for evil in the world ? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8497379 - 06/07/08 08:32 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

It's a benchmark similar to living the warriors way.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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