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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Belief in synchronicity as having meaning
    #8455645 - 05/28/08 02:43 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

merely demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the law of probability, pattern recognition and the enormous amount of raw data that we are exposed to every single day from which to pick and choose.

Don't believe me, eh? Spend a week alone in the Saharan desert or the arctic or even in your room incommunicado and then relate all of your amazing 'synchronicities'.


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OfflineCyric
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8455674 - 05/28/08 02:52 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I think that, depending on one's belief system(s), the concept of synchronicity might not quite be the same as the actual definition.

For example, if I manifest an occurrence, say where the margin of error is incredibly thin, by asking aloud for it to happen specifically right down to many minute details, and it happens, I've got a lot of reason to say that it is not a mere coincidence.

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8455772 - 05/28/08 03:27 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Perhaps there is an undercurrent...
A common thread throughout history.
When one is on the trail...
You start syncing up with the reality
That there are those who 'know'...
And they want to put it in front of your face
So that when you learn...
You know too.

Like... We been here the whole time. Join us.


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OfflineTantradvaita
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8455848 - 05/28/08 03:58 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I dont think people who spend lots of time in isolation would agree as monks who meditate for years alone in the himalayas or the example of Jesus going into the desert for 40 days shows that people seem to get more "syncronized" after long isolation.

However they have the agenda of becoming syncronized so could be just as much a hypnosis as believing your separate from everyone else.

Its totally possible to pick up on other peoples thoughts when they are thinking about you tho, whenever i think about an ex alot they end up texting me the following days, we were simply catching the waves of thoughts. I cant see it as co-incidence as it happens alot.


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"Don't keep searching for truth, simply let go of your beliefs" Buddha

Edited by Tantradvaita (05/28/08 04:08 PM)

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: Tantradvaita]
    #8455924 - 05/28/08 04:23 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Synchronous events reveal an underlying pattern, a conceptual framework which encompasses, but is larger than, any of the systems which display the synchronicity. The suggestion of a larger framework is essential in order to satisfy the definition of synchronicity as originally developed by Swiss psychologist Carl Gustav Jung.
From: wiki

We are all waking up in the modern world, right??
Synchronized with what??

I'm talking reality as it IS.  Little different now, don't you think.

Especially when there are people working to bring common mythology to life.

Being in a cave or alone in the desert...??  I feel you almost have to be in the mix of things.

Then its like all the time.

I don't neglect the importance of isolation at all though.  That's more of like a vision quest, in my mind.

Synchronicty to me is the world letting you know that you are believing things that are verifiable.
You all of the sudden come across what you've been learning in the real world in real time and it clicks.

I won't see these things alone in my room, really.  Unless I'm on the Shroomery ALL FUCKIN DAY.:grin:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8455990 - 05/28/08 04:43 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
merely demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the law of probability, pattern recognition and the enormous amount of raw data that we are exposed to every single day from which to pick and choose.

Don't believe me, eh? Spend a week alone in the Saharan desert or the arctic or even in your room incommunicado and then relate all of your amazing 'synchronicities'.



you left out the most important thing.
sychronicity is compelling because when it happens it seems like it is very special.
it seems very special because time is not perceived in a normal way.
moments cross boundaries have variable length, many are out of sequence or co-temporaneous seeming.

this happens in the psychedelic states, the dreamstates, the emotional states and the meditative absorption states.

interpretting what is happenning is not easy, so the person reacts thinking:
this must mean something.


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OfflineWordlessNature
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8457329 - 05/28/08 09:16 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
merely demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the law of probability, pattern recognition and the enormous amount of raw data that we are exposed to every single day from which to pick and choose.

Don't believe me, eh? Spend a week alone in the Saharan desert or the arctic or even in your room incommunicado and then relate all of your amazing 'synchronicities'.




Is the formulation of a personal, admittedly biased and ethereal catalogue of experience into a system called "syncronicity" what bothers you? So what if someone likes to play logical leap frog?

Is it these systems that you despise, or the proliferation of them that you take exception to? Think of it as a stepping stone, not an end in and of itself...


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: WordlessNature]
    #8457922 - 05/28/08 11:28 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

i also agree synchronicity doesn't mean much.

i think that
a) its a subconscious cultural meme (or was subconscious at one point...). people spread this belief in cosmic synchronisity, and then use that belief structure to communicate with other people who believe it through the medium of synchronisity, but its still a man made mental construct.
b) it tells your subconscious to pick out things to pay attention to which you're thinking about, or to think about things that will soon relate to what is going to happen.

it gains momentum like a feedback loop. you find a synchronisity and decide its important which tells your subconscious to look for more, so you find more and tell your subconscious to find more.

even after deciding that was going on i chased them, and nothing ever came of it.

more info in my sig.


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You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

Edited by truekimbo2 (05/28/08 11:36 PM)

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OfflineAlCapwn
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: truekimbo2]
    #8458288 - 05/29/08 01:04 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Synchronicity shouldn't be a blind and direct reason for the belief in meaning and ulterior existence or higher powers, but there is certainly something there. Personally, I think it attests to the malleability and non-linear fashion of time itself or the perception of time. Time is not linear, and this is pretty much accepted theory amongst many physicists. Sometimes, we feel time passing slower, or faster. Minutes can seem like days, days can seem like minutes given the right situation. And I mean, I'm talking to people who have extensively used psychedelics, you all should KNOW that linear time is only a matter of perception.

It's not a coincidence that two improbable events occur simultaneously. You just can't see time, so this is how you notice it isn't just a straight line from a to b. It becomes especially apparent while you're tripping, and this is pretty much where I see the value in psychedelics. More as a perceptive experiment leading to factual realizations applicable in regular space. But I digress... It's not subconscious, it is very real and seemingly improbable to us, where it would seem almost inevitable were we able to see the flow of time more clearly. I am lead to believe that this is also somewhat how deja-vu works, and to a more eccentric and unverified extent, ghosts.

But it isn't a better reason than say the existence of a rock to argue spirituality, it's just another absurd thing our universe throws at us.


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Huuuuurrrrrr!

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8458717 - 05/29/08 06:47 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

merely demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the law of probability, pattern recognition and the enormous amount of raw data that we are exposed to every single day from which to pick and choose.

You continue to demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of what "chance" is (and isn't).

Everything happens for a reason :wink:

Even your infallible "chance" happens for a reason.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: trendal]
    #8458732 - 05/29/08 07:01 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Personal ancedote:

Once I was working for a logging company as an offbearer (the guy who chucks the stripped bark away after it has been cut off the tree trunk). The owner of the company was running the saw. When we were doing that it was literally so loud you couldn't hear yourself think.

A thought, totally unrelated to anything that had been discussed or related to, popped in my head-the word Manischiewitz.

A few minutes later, the owner shut the saw down and turned the engine to idle so I could hear him, walked over to me and said, "MANISCHIEWITZ!.

What did that mean? I have no clue, but it was a startling coincidence.


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: trendal]
    #8458738 - 05/29/08 07:04 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

The OP continues to demonstrate a complete misunderstanding of Jung and what he meant by 'synchronicity'.

It's not even about the co-incidental events themselves but awareness of the subjective significance that unites them.

See "Synchronicity — An Acausal Connecting Principle" by C.G. Jung 1952

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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: Middleman]
    #8458767 - 05/29/08 07:20 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

How would that apply in my anecdote?


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8458787 - 05/29/08 07:32 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Middleman was referring to the OP (original poster of the thread), ie, OrgoneConclusion. You can also check the Re: line at the top of his post to see who he was replying to (hint: it wasn't you).

It's okay, you're new - HOLY SHIT how did you get 122 posts in 3 days?


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: zouden]
    #8458827 - 05/29/08 07:59 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for the tip.

I got the posts posting in other forums and I still haven't seen them all. This place is amazing! Hunting and The Pub are really cool.

Still though, how does my experience fit in with Jung's theory? I want to understand synchronicity better in case I don't fully understand it.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: Middleman]
    #8458829 - 05/29/08 08:01 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

but awareness of the subjective significance that unites them.





Unsurprisingly, this statement makes no sense.


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OfflineCyric
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8459145 - 05/29/08 10:22 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

backfromthedead said:
I won't see these things alone in my room, really.  Unless I'm on the Shroomery ALL FUCKIN DAY.:grin:




    :thumbup:

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8459160 - 05/29/08 10:28 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Hongos said:
Personal ancedote:

Once I was working for a logging company as an offbearer (the guy who chucks the stripped bark away after it has been cut off the tree trunk). The owner of the company was running the saw. When we were doing that it was literally so loud you couldn't hear yourself think.

A thought, totally unrelated to anything that had been discussed or related to, popped in my head-the word Manischiewitz.

A few minutes later, the owner shut the saw down and turned the engine to idle so I could hear him, walked over to me and said, "MANISCHIEWITZ!.

What did that mean? I have no clue, but it was a startling coincidence.




this is an interesting thing
it is not the same as perceptual synchrony which is usually what we call synchronicity.

I really like it when this type of thing happens,
but it is more like a cosmic joke than a confusion of meanings.


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8459191 - 05/29/08 10:41 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

So I went to a boardshop the other day and picked up this T-shirt...


THAT IS SYNCHRONICTY DAMMIT

And I am an alien...


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Belief in synchronicity as having meaning [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8459302 - 05/29/08 11:21 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Why would there meanings be confused ? I think they were melted to greater meaning.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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