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OfflineEvilGir
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Phosphate addition
    #844338 - 08/26/02 02:17 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I have just read this from : Info
As many may have already figured out, there just isn't enough phosphorus in the substrate to support psilocybin production.

Is this true and if so what additives could be added to increase this.


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: EvilGir]
    #844345 - 08/26/02 02:21 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Your web link answered your own question:
    As many may have already figured out, there just isn't enough phosphorus in the substrate to support psilocybin production...quite simply, it is used up. My answer to this was to add a small amount of phosphoric acid (H3PO4)to the water at the same time you add the tryptamine HCl, and adjust to neutral to wide-base Ph paper using NaOH.


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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #844365 - 08/26/02 02:30 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Hmm yeah what I meant was anything obtainable. I dont thiink think phosphoric acid is easy to get in the uk.


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: EvilGir]
    #844366 - 08/26/02 02:31 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Try battery acid. I believe it's phosphoric acid. Of course, make sure and read the label before you buy it.


--------------------
"I tried to put it all behind me, but my redneck past is nipping at my heels.." -- Ben Folds Five


Edited by mickey_rourke (08/26/02 02:31 PM)


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InvisibleSixTango
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #844743 - 08/26/02 04:56 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Battery acid? Wheeeeee. I don't think so.

Bone meal should help.

SixTango


--------------------
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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: SixTango]
    #844753 - 08/26/02 04:59 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

Battery acid? Wheeeeee. I don't think so.


I was providing him with a potential source for phosphoric acid.


--------------------
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InvisibleTM
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #844813 - 08/26/02 05:23 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

Battery acid? Wheeeeee. I don't think so.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was providing him with a potential source for phosphoric acid.


Sorry, no, you were refering him to a perfect source for HCL (Hydrochloric Acid). Extremely corrosive and deadly.

*EDITED FOR TYPOS*


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


Edited by TripMeister (08/26/02 05:26 PM)


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: TM]
    #844824 - 08/26/02 05:26 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Uh, no... This is what I said: Try battery acid. I believe it's phosphoric acid. Of course, make sure and read the label before you buy it.

Note: Make sure and read the label before you buy it.


--------------------
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #844832 - 08/26/02 05:31 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, that's what it says (now)....

But I still don't know of ANY batteries that contain Phosphoric Acid.


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: TM]
    #844843 - 08/26/02 05:43 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Are you stoned? I edited two seconds after I posted it? This was well before you even saw the thread.


--------------------
"I tried to put it all behind me, but my redneck past is nipping at my heels.." -- Ben Folds Five


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Offlinevalkyrie
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #844848 - 08/26/02 05:45 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I contain phosphoric acid... but please dont use me to supplement your substrate.


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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #844888 - 08/26/02 05:58 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Yes I am, very, (Hydroponic Indica) , and I appologize. but only for the "(now)" comment.

What readily available battery uses only phosphoric acid?


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: TM]
    #844889 - 08/26/02 05:59 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

But I still don't know of ANY batteries that contain Phosphoric Acid.


Uhm, you can make a battery out of a potato thanks to the phosphoric acid it contains.

Potato Battery


--------------------
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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #844897 - 08/26/02 06:01 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

Are you stoned?




Yeah bro....I am stoned as a mo fo!!!



--------------------
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Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: Roadkill]
    #844898 - 08/26/02 06:02 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

Yeah bro....I am stoned as a mo fo!!!


Shit, I guess it means we all smoke weed...

Btw, love the new sig.


--------------------
"I tried to put it all behind me, but my redneck past is nipping at my heels.." -- Ben Folds Five


Edited by mickey_rourke (08/26/02 06:03 PM)


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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #844901 - 08/26/02 06:04 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

So why didn't you just say "Put a few potatos through your Juiceman II"?


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


Edited by TripMeister (08/26/02 06:05 PM)


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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #844903 - 08/26/02 06:06 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

Btw, love the new sig.


Thanks a lot!!!


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: TM]
    #844906 - 08/26/02 06:08 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Do you wear your blinders 24/7 or only when you post here?


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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #844913 - 08/26/02 06:11 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Do you always do things the hard way? Why go searching for the rare and expensive phosphoric acid battery, when you can just juice a potato to get what you need?


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: TM]
    #844933 - 08/26/02 06:22 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

LMAO! The only reason you even knew anything about potatos containing phosphoric acid is because I PM'ed you the link. Anyway, I'm done with this thread.


--------------------
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #844944 - 08/26/02 06:28 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Wimp! Answer the question. Nevermind, I'll do it for you...

mickey was stoned when he suggested battery acid as a source and just didn't think of the simple method of using potato juice (which also happens to be the key ingredient in potato dextrose agar).


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: TM]
    #844949 - 08/26/02 06:33 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

mickey was stoned when he suggested battery acid as a source and just didn't think of the simple method of using potato juice (which also happens to be the key ingredient in potato dextrose agar).


The truth of the matter is that pure phosphoric acid would be preferable (compared to potato juice) in relation to the original post. Potatos are certainly not a good source for pure phosphoric acid. If using potato juice, how would you measure the concentration? Go ahead and post again. I know you can't resist having the last word.


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Offlineprimal_future
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: TM]
    #844955 - 08/26/02 06:35 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Has anyone actually tried this? If so, what were the results? With all of these potency questions and no real answers, it looks like we need to figure out how to test for psilocybin content ... other than the occasional "yeah man, they really f*cked me up!"

primal


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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #845632 - 08/27/02 03:37 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

first and foremost,
batteries contain SULFURIC acid,
not hydrochloric nor phosphoric.
and phosphoric acid is a very mild acid,
safe to use, widely sold and use to
remove hard mineral build-up on bathroom tiles.
i got a gallon of it at home depot for a couple bucks,
it's neither rare nor expensive..


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
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Edited by Hippie3 (08/27/02 03:39 AM)


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: Hippie3]
    #845903 - 08/27/02 06:01 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

yep hip is right. sulphuric in batteries.
phosphoric acid is in coca cola. you should get it in hardware stores (ive never looked) it is also used to clean up welds and metal stains. a local car garage may have some in use and may sell you some


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: EvilGir]
    #845984 - 08/27/02 06:36 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

If you can get tryptamine hydrochloride, you should have no problem getting H3PO4. Maybe that's not your intention, but the link you provided just points to that.


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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #846609 - 08/27/02 11:57 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

Has anyone actually tried this? If so, what were the results? With all of these potency questions and no real answers, it looks like we need to figure out how to test for psilocybin content ... other than the occasional "yeah man, they really f*cked me up!"





Well the main idea of the post was to find a source of phosphate so I could increase the psilocybin which i beleive is the most visual chemicle of the two.
This could be inteperated in Psilocybin Mushrooms of the world on page 40 that liberty caps(semilanceata) contain more Psilocybin than psilocin where as cubes contain equal amounts but less. So instead of trying to come up with a super shroom it would be better to increase on of the two chemicals (Psilocybin).

The reason why i want to do this is because no matter how many cubes I have munched on I have never had any type of visual experience like i have had on Liberty caps, They just seem totaly week. You could say eat more but how much more the most i have had of cubes is about 30g wet and this trip was say level 2.
I have so far tried two diffrent strains of cube shrooms, now starting on my third(Cambodia) with equal results. I just want some cool visuals not much to ask.

If this experiment was to be carried out then someone with a lab would need to do the chemical analysis.

This could be done by chemical extraction of the chemicals using the DMT techniques only in an inert atmosphere say like argon. This would stop or reduce
decomposition of the chemicals. Next to separate the extracted material you would have to be put through a chromatography and the substances could be collected from there positions on the chromagtoraphy by there published results. Then simply weigh them using a scale to the 0.001g. And to quickly ensure the material is what you think it is run it through a mass spectoraphy.
This needs a some expensive lab equipment.


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: EvilGir]
    #846668 - 08/27/02 12:19 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

i have had of cubes is about 30g wet and this trip was say level 2.


The easiest thing to do would be to eat about 50-60g wet..


--------------------
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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: EvilGir]
    #846852 - 08/27/02 01:48 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

ok, first I think (and i may be wrong) you have the main idea of that post wrong. Adding tryptamine HCL to your substrate is suppose to increase the levels of psylocin in your shrooms, but not much for psylocibin. The link is saying that it is because of the lack of phosphorous in the substrate. So in order to do what the link is saying, you would need tryptamine hydrochloride, which is a list one chemical and you may not be able to get that. Infact if you are having difficulty getting H3PO4, forget even trying to get it. i wouldn't even try getting it in Mexico right now w/ the Sept. 11 stuff.


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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #847174 - 08/27/02 04:27 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Looking back on the original post you could be right. But still it could be worth investigating some type of addition on a normal PF substrate. Cos I dont think any one here has actualy tried any addition of phosphate and it would be intresting to see if, any results. I have found one possible source of Phosphate which is Sanatogen they are only two ingredient i: Glycerophosphated Casein, Emulsifier (Glyceryl Mono-oleate). Anyone know if this will make any diffrence or not ?
or has any ideas on the subject.


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: EvilGir]
    #847557 - 08/27/02 07:20 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

It's less work to just eat more. If you want something stronger, try Pan cyans.

Peace


--------------------
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Offlinewrestler_az
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: EvilGir]
    #847793 - 08/27/02 08:41 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

i may be wrong on this, so correct me if im wrong......but doesnt your body break psilocybin down to psilocin anyway? so the ratio really wouldnt be that significant anyway......right?


--------------------
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  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: wrestler_az]
    #848930 - 08/28/02 11:34 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I have got some Pan cyans that i bought 4 month ago, but cant get the rye grain at the moment or the auto calve bags. There is also the fact of getting the dung.
Guess i will either have to start takeing the shrooms with a good dose of MAOI.
Even simpler still its soon shroom season and there will be lots of liberty caps


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: wrestler_az]
    #850333 - 08/29/02 03:45 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

did you read that somewhere. Pst a link.


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Re: Phosphate addition [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #850945 - 08/29/02 11:39 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Now, here's the structural diagram for psilocybin:


N
/ \ PSILOCYBIN
/ \
______/ \ C H N O P
/ / \ \ || 12 17 2 4
/ / \ \ ||
/ / \ \ || 4-OPO -DMT
\/ \/___|| C C 4
\________/ \ / \ /
\______/ \ / \ / 4-Phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine
\ \ / \ /
\ C N 1H-Indol-4-ol, 3-[2-(dimethylamino)-
\ (+) | ethyl] dihydrogen phosphate ester
O |
| C CAS #: 520-52-5
____| (-)
O____P____O DEA #: 7437
|
|
O

In the body, the phosphorus part is chopped off ("dephosphorylated") by the enzyme alkaline phosphatase, turning it into our other friend:


N PSILOCIN
/ \
/ \ C H N O
______/ \ 12 16 2
/ / \ \ ||
/ / \ \ || 4-OH-DMT
/ / \ \ ||
\/ \/___|| C C 4-Hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine
\________/ \ / \ /
\______/ \ / \ / 1H-Indol-4-ol, 3-[2-(dimethylamino)
\ \ / \ / ethyl]
\ C N
\ | CAS #: 520-53-6
O |
C DEA #: 7438

http://nepenthes.lycaeum.org/Plants/shrooms/MMFAQ.html

the symbols got all bunched together cuz it would not copy the spaces inbetween, but you get the idea....


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  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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