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InvisibleThedroman420
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: Hotnuts]
    #8443183 - 05/25/08 10:14 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

so after you pick and ID them do you have to wait for them to dry before eatin or can you just wash them off and try?


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InvisibleQuantumReality
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: Hotnuts]
    #8443226 - 05/25/08 10:43 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Lol those are no "lawn galerina" Lol can you not see the blueing? they are psilocybe, and some very interesting ones too, great finds inski:thumbup: any clue what they  are yet?

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InvisibleQuantumReality
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: Thedroman420]
    #8443232 - 05/25/08 10:45 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

You dont have to wait for them to dry before eating them, infact i would recomend eating fresh if you can stomach it. Dont even worry about washing them either, just brush off what ever bug or dirt you see and simply eat:thumbup:

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OfflineJuke Adro
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: Hotnuts]
    #8443646 - 05/25/08 01:30 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I have seen these before, I dont know where but on this site and they had a name, now I have to search 1000000 threads to find it grrrrrrrr, don't you hate it when you just have to know lol


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Invisiblescout24
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: inski]
    #8444800 - 05/25/08 08:27 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Fantastic finds and good work!  :thumbup:


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: scout24]
    #8445081 - 05/25/08 10:17 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Inski, you should totally add links to some of your old, relevant threads when you make new threads on the same species!  Kinda like an update to the last sighting, but a separate thread.  You don't have to, I just always see your posts, and it's like the same comments as last time you posted photos of the same species, hahaha.  I'm thinking "here we go again!"  :smile:

So here's the thread I remember, were there any others?
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5627554#Post5627554

These guys stunned me last time you posted photos, and they still fascinate me!! 

This could become a significant discovery, since as you know, Weraroa novae-zelandiae is closest related to the bluing Psilocybe species, and this new mushroom may serve as somewhat of a bridge between the wood dwelling Psilocybe and it's close, secotioid relative, W. novae-zelandiae

What is VERY interesting (and amusing to me) is what Peter Werner (studies Psilocybe of California) pointed out; that because the genus Psilocybe is polyphyletic, in that the bluing and non-bluing Psilocybe represent two separate lineages (the bluing are related to Galerina in the family Hymenogastraceae, while the non-bluing mushrooms are relative to Kuehneromyces and Melanotus in the family Strophariaceae), one of the two not so closely related clades should be separated into a different genus........
The ISSUE is that the type species for Psilocybe is P. montana, which is in the non-bluing (non-psilocin/psilocybin containing) clade, thus according to the rules of classification established by ICBN, the inactive clade will retain the genus name Psilocybe, and the psychoactive group will be placed.... Where?  Well, because Weraroa novae-zelandiae belongs in the same genus as the bluing Psilocybe, and because it is the type species for the genus Weraroa, it provides a placement for all bluing Psilocybe, and all the unrelated species currently in Weraroa (another polyphyletic genus) will need to be removed and replaced into other genera.

So the genus Psilocybe will hold only non-psilocybin containing mushrooms, and the psilocybin containing mushrooms in Hymenogastraceae will be called Weraroa, with their type species a sickly looking, pale bluish, alien egg looking thing of a mushroom!

Can you imagine the upset this is going to cause the mycological community- more specifically, the non-professional, psilocybin mushroom hunters?? 
Weraroa cubensis...?
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!!! 
I love it.


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Edited by CureCat (05/26/08 05:02 AM)

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InvisibleHerbBaker
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: CureCat]
    #8445121 - 05/25/08 10:31 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

not gonna happen, because its a stupid idea.

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: HerbBaker]
    #8445170 - 05/25/08 10:43 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

warriorsoul said:
not gonna happen, because its a stupid idea.



ORLY? Is that why??


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OfflineN2loma
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: HerbBaker]
    #8445424 - 05/26/08 12:06 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

LOL The name change could happen because it is a stupid idea :rolleyes: The straight-laced mycologists could stick it to the hippies that way!

I would much rather have the psychoactives remain Psilocybes, or be given a new, cool genus name.

...Wouldn't psilocybin and psilocin also have to be renamed? :crazy2:


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Edited by N2loma (05/26/08 12:09 AM)

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InvisibleQuantumReality
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: HerbBaker]
    #8445434 - 05/26/08 12:11 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

warriorsoul said:
not gonna happen, because its a stupid idea.


:dudewtf:
thats not very nice

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Offlinefliped
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: AgentClaret]
    #8445449 - 05/26/08 12:15 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

AgentClaret said:
id be careful, sorta looks like a lawn galerina to me.



do you know what galerinas look like?

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Invisiblewisp

Registered: 04/13/08
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: CureCat]
    #8445466 - 05/26/08 12:20 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

CureCat said:
Inski, you should totally add links to some of your old, relevant threads when you make new threads on the same species!  Kinda like an update to the last sighting, but a separate thread.  You don't have to, I just always see your posts, and it's like the same comments as last time you posted photos of the same species, hahaha.  I'm thinking "here we go again!"  :smile:

So here's the thread I remember, were there any others?
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5627554#Post5627554

These guys stunned me last time you posted photos, and they still fascinate me!! 

This could become a significant discovery, since as you know, Weraroa navae-zelandiae is closest related to the bluing Psilocybe species, and this new mushroom may serve as somewhat of a bridge between the wood dwelling Psilocybe and it's close, secotioid relative, W. novae-zelandiae

What is VERY interesting (and amusing to me) is what Peter Werner (studies Psilocybe of California) pointed out; that because the genus Psilocybe is polyphyletic, in that the bluing and non-bluing Psilocybe represent two separate lineages (the bluing are related to the Stropharia, Hypholoma and most of Pholiota, while the non-bluing mushrooms are relative to Kuehneromyces and Melanotus), one of the two not so closely related clades should be separated into a different genus........
The ISSUE is that the type species for Psilocybe is P. montana, which is in the non-bluing (non-psilocin/psilocybin containing) clade, thus according to the rules of classification established by ICBN, the inactive clade will retain the genus name Psilocybe, and the psychoactive group will be placed.... Where?  Well, because Weraroa novae-zelandiae belongs in the same genus as the bluing Psilocybe, and because it is the type species for the genus Weraroa, it provides a placement for all bluing Psilocybe, and all the unrelated species currently in Weraroa (another polyphyletic genus) will need to be removed and replaced into other genera.

So the genus Psilocybe will hold only non-psilocybin containing mushrooms, and the psilocybin containing mushrooms in Strophariaceae will be called Weraroa, with their type species a sickly looking, pale bluish, alien egg looking thing of a mushroom!

Can you imagine the upset this is going to cause the mycological community- more specifically, the non-professional, psilocybin mushroom hunters?? 
Weraroa cubensis...?
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!!! 
I love it.




I like what you're saying here. It seems reclassification is necessary. Weraroa cubensis has a wonderful ring to it:grin:

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: N2loma]
    #8445606 - 05/26/08 01:10 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

N2loma said:
The straight-laced mycologists could stick it to the hippies that way!



I know!! Ahahahahaha..


Quote:

N2loma said:
I would much rather have the psychoactives remain Psilocybes, or be given a new, cool genus name.



Yeah, but "unfortunately" how it works is that the nomenclature is supposed to reflect actual phylogenetic relationships, but also, they want to give credit to the scientists who put all that time into naming things (under the condition that the name reflects the organisms phylogeny), so Weraroa novae-zelandiae needs to be in the same genus with the active Psilocybe, but they can't keep the name Psilocybe because the name is fixed to the type species Ps. montana, which is in the inactive clade.
Since Weraroa is polyphyletic and is already in the process of being split up, and W. novae-zelandiae is the type species, and since the clade it is in cannot be Psilocybe because that name is taken by an unrelated (inactive) clade, Weraroa is the available genus. New genera are not constructed when an acceptable genus exists- 1, as to honour the original author, and 2, so as not to constantly be making up new names and confusing the shit out of everyone because it "sounds better".


Quote:

N2loma said:
...Wouldn't psilocybin and psilocin also have to be renamed?



Nope, chemical names are not governed by the same rules of biological nomenclature.


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InvisibleHerbBaker
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: CureCat]
    #8445630 - 05/26/08 01:16 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Just change the type species from montana to an atypical active species.

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Invisiblewisp

Registered: 04/13/08
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: HerbBaker]
    #8445650 - 05/26/08 01:23 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Oh no, no, taxonomists never change things to make it easier. It'll have to be changed to the most confusing, frustrating and seemingly most inappropiate name possible. Then you'll know thye've got it right.

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: HerbBaker]
    #8445710 - 05/26/08 01:49 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

warriorsoul said:
Just change the type species from montana to an atypical active species.



No, why should exceptions be made because it is "convenient" to hobbyists??  It wouldn't be very fair to the mycologists who described and named the first representative of the genus Psilocybe.  And since Psilocybe means "Bald Head", I'm fairly certain that the chemical psilocybin was named after the genus of mushrooms containing that chemical, not the other way around. 

So go bitch at the chemist who wasn't psychic and named a chemical after the wrong clade of mushrooms.  :tongue:


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Invisiblemyrealname
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: CureCat]
    #8445797 - 05/26/08 02:49 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

damn nice looking psilocybes anywhoo nigga

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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: CureCat]
    #8445800 - 05/26/08 02:51 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Ok guys, didn't think this would start a debate:)
I understand what CureCat is saying and must agree!
CureCat, can you explain to me how the blueing species of Psilocybe that belong in the Hymenogastraceae clade fit in here?
If the taxonomic change you proposed did happen would they also be changed to Weraroa or just the ones in Strophariaceae?
I guess what I have found is a bit like a sequestrate form of Weraroa or an evolutionary step between Weraroa novaezelandiae and the blueing species of wood loving Psilocybe as CureCat mentioned!
Yes, I see how this could be a very significant find when it comes to taxonomy!
Hmm, Weraroa cyanescens, haha!
inski...


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Edited by inski (05/26/08 03:06 AM)

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: CureCat]
    #8445930 - 05/26/08 04:38 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, I can explain that! I noted the mistake earlier but then I got distracted and went out to dinner, so I'll edit/clarify now.
I said "and the psilocybin containing mushrooms in Strophariaceae will be called Weraroa", but I should have said "and the psilocybin containing mushrooms in Hymenogastraceae will be called Weraroa".

I am basing the relation of Psilocybe with those 3 Strophariaceae genera, on one of Peter's articles (and I know he is aware of the most recent taxonomy surrounding these clades), but I just noticed that it was written in 2004... So, some of the info is outdated, and I need to make a revision. I will do so shortly.
Any way, good questions, I would not have realized the classification conflict as soon otherwise.
But obviously, those details don't change the argument for species shift to the (apparently unpopular) genus Weraroa.


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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: Unusual Psilocybe species! [Re: CureCat]
    #8445979 - 05/26/08 05:17 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

This causes a huge problem for the taxonomists, as you say Psilocybe montana is the type species for the Psilocybe genus and is inactive so all non bluing species must remain in the Psilocybe genus to honour the mycologists responsible for describing and naming it!
As you also mention, if the active species are reclassified into Weraroa all other Weraroa species would also have to be reclassified into different genera therefore dishonouring the mycologists responsible for the description and naming of the Weraroa genus, unless someone discovers another active species!
What a conflict this could cause!
I'm very interested to see how this turns out.
I like the name Weraroa and welcome the change, anyway It's not about what your average active mushroom hunter thinks sounds cool, it's about the painstaking long hours of work the mycologist does to classify these organisms, just spend all day looking through a microscope and you may get an idea of the paitence and dedication it takes!
By the way I don't think it's a stupid idea and it will not surprise me if it happens!
inski...


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Edited by inski (05/26/08 05:27 AM)

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