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 Epigallo
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 Propensity for Ecstasy 
#8426125 - 05/20/08 09:26 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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With psychedelic drugs alone we can induce all of the ecstasy we want. Ecstasy is not exactly a pleasure, as the intensity of it hurts in a way, and ecstasy can also be arrived at through pain - such as through yoga. But there is something about us that wants ecstasy to occur but not permanently. This is the original meaning of the biblical statement, "Man can not see god and live on". What is going on here? What would it do to you to live 24/7 in full blown ecstatic experience? To live completely without it?
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
 
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Re: Propensity for Ecstasy [Re: Epigallo]
#8427281 - 05/21/08 03:17 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
With psychedelic drugs alone we can induce all of the ecstasy we want.
Not true. Psychedelic drugs merely emphasize the state of mind we were already into, and that ecstatic feeling is not granted solely by using them.
Also the difference that you made between ecstasy and pleasure is not really there, since pleasure can and is being achieved through pain as well.
Quote:
This is the original meaning of the biblical statement, "Man can not see god and live on".
Really?
I fail to see the correlation, can you perhaps explain?
Frankly, what you're saying here, doesn't make any sense at all. 
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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 redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
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In agreeing with mushroomtrip, I would say that psychedelic drugs emphasize the underlying patterns that you have already established. I am careful to use "state of mind" to describe how resonant the mind state is, and psychedelic increases that resonance - nonselectively.
ecstacy is a particular kind of complex pattern in which pleasure signals (both/either body feeling and memory) are selectively amplified and echoed in the holographic mind. - ecstacy is a kind of content to mind (being the container), and with psychedelic resonance (being the container's behavior) the replication and layering of any content can be quite astonishing.
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Boots
Disenchanted
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
With psychedelic drugs alone we can induce all of the ecstasy we want.
Not true. Psychedelic drugs merely emphasize the state of mind we were already into
I disagree with both of you. With/without drugs, we can induce ecstasy, one isn't necessarily better for everyone.
Also, psychedelics, in their simplest definition, alter the state of consciousness/mind we were in when we took them. It can emphasize them but it can also minimize them.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Propensity for Ecstasy [Re: Boots]
#8428355 - 05/21/08 11:20 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I disagree with all three of you.
(but I'm not sure why)
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MushroomTrip
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Re: Propensity for Ecstasy [Re: Boots]
#8428620 - 05/21/08 12:29 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Boots said:
Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
With psychedelic drugs alone we can induce all of the ecstasy we want.
Not true. Psychedelic drugs merely emphasize the state of mind we were already into
I disagree with both of you. With/without drugs, we can induce ecstasy, one isn't necessarily better for everyone.
And where did I state that we can't indulge ourselves in an ecstatic state?
What I was saying was that psychedelics can't put us into any state of mind, what does that is our interpretations regading the events that are happening around us.
Quote:
Also, psychedelics, in their simplest definition, alter the state of consciousness/mind we were in when we took them. It can emphasize them but it can also minimize them.
Psychedelics don't do anything from what you said here regarding our feelings. Just because in some cases someone can feel depressed and as soon as they start tripping they feel better, doesn't mean that the new attitude was induced to them, but that it already was on their minds.
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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WhiskeyClone
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Re: Propensity for Ecstasy [Re: Epigallo]
#8429050 - 05/21/08 02:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I definitely disagree with the four of you.
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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.
~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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Epigallo
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If ecstasy is a pattern of pleasure signals, why does a person's face somewhat resemble intense pain when they are in ecstasy?
some cheesy lyrics come to mind...
"love hurts"
"come on baby, make it hurt so good"
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gettinjiggywithit
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Re: Propensity for Ecstasy [Re: Epigallo]
#8429291 - 05/21/08 03:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think any feeling that overwhelms a person, pleasurable or painful, can become uncomfortable and make one tense up in attempts to squish/stop the volume of energy flow.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Epigallo
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right, but I don't think the "tensing up" is the essence of those experiences - it is the overflow of energy itself. That seems like a better definition of ecstasy than a complex pattern of "pleasure signals". It's an intense "aliveness"...
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MushroomTrip
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Re: Propensity for Ecstasy [Re: Epigallo]
#8431704 - 05/22/08 03:06 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bradley said:
If ecstasy is a pattern of pleasure signals, why does a person's face somewhat resemble intense pain when they are in ecstasy?
I think you have a vitiated perception regarding the meaning of the term pleasure. Pleasure can be created by anything that appeals to the individual, since pleasure is something subjective, and there are so many cases when people feel pleasure when they're suffering.
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 40,399
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are we confusing rapture with pleasure?
or the achieving of rapture while seeking pleasure?
or the little death of orgasm in the throes of sexual pleasure?
the rictus or grimace is not a sign of pleasure at all,
but the acts that yield pleasure also yield other things.
they are usually worth the trouble.
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_ 🧠_
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Epigallo
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i would deem ecstasy basically equivalent to rapture
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Tantradvaita
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Re: Propensity for Ecstasy [Re: Epigallo]
#8439604 - 05/24/08 08:43 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Pain can definately turn into ecstacy, beyond pleasure & pain there is tantric bliss. All that pain is, is the polar opposite of pleasure opening you up for more pleasure, for pleasure to be experienced & tasted
When a woman gives birth she goes through unbelievable pain, but then the joy that is born from that pain is beyond anything...i would go as far to say that ALL pain is birthing pains.
Theres an old tantric technique for this
"pierce the skin & become the the piercing"
Your basically supposed to pierce the skin with a needle and enter the piercing with the needle, this brings you into present moment awareness, its been used as a bed of nails or by sadomasicists etc...as you focus on the pain it gets smaller & smaller where its piercing the body then as you enter the body with the piercing it becomes bliss as you become you aware you are not the body, which is joy.
Some girls like to be bitten, have they're hair pulled, hit they're head against the headboard, there is a pleasure deriven from this pain. They are one.
One Love
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"Don't keep searching for truth, simply let go of your beliefs" Buddha
Edited by Tantradvaita (05/24/08 08:56 AM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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How many puppet identities do you have now?
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AnarchoTrip
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There's way too many definitions going on in here. Someone, please, define:
ecstacy:
pleasure:
rapture:
For me, and my experiences, euphoria is synonymous for being in a state of ecstacy. I have, specifically after consuming psychedelic drugs, felt some state of ecstacy (sure, not 100%, but pretty damn ecstatic). I've also felt pleasure, but pleasure really isn't euphoric to me... it's just simple pleasure--I mean, being in ecstacy is pleasurable, sure--ecstacy is more of a mean to it's own end... yeah, maybe that's what I'm trying to get at.
I have no idea why anyone threw out the term "rapture"--for the record.
Returning to the OP, I believe yr confusing the terms pleasure and ecstacy. No, I don't see how pain can bring ecstacy. Yes, pain and bring pleasure (who isn't into sadism in one level or another?). Also, I believe permanent ecstacy is attainable, just damn hard to get. I believe the buddhists call it Nirvana, the Christians call it salvation, etc etc ad nauseum.
Not sure where to add this bit, but for some reason I'm drawn to saying it: Humility has brought the most euphoric states of ecstacy I've ever experienced; I believe the highest state of ecstacy I've ever felt, specifically while on psychedelic drugs, has been when I've sat back and simply said "damn. wow. I'm happy and content simply to be alive."
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YIPPIE!
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Epigallo
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Re: Propensity for Ecstasy [Re: AnarchoTrip]
#8443020 - 05/25/08 07:53 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Returning to the OP, I believe yr confusing the terms pleasure and ecstacy.
dude, my second sentence - "ecstasy is not exactly a pleasure"
to avoid this crazy ass definition roundabout, I will rephrase: "why do we have a limited propensity for using psychedelics?"
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 40,399
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Re: Propensity for Ecstasy [Re: Epigallo]
#8443098 - 05/25/08 09:04 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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1 - pleasure is simply a good sensation (not painful).
2 - euphoria is light-headedness and waves of pleasure.
3 - ecstacy is sustained waves of pleasure with sparkling moments.
4 - rapture is ecstacy folded into emotional/psychological geyser which disables ordinary activities.
(I thought everyone knew that)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
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Posts: 40,399
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Re: Propensity for Ecstasy [Re: Epigallo]
#8443102 - 05/25/08 09:09 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bradley said:
Quote:
Returning to the OP, I believe yr confusing the terms pleasure and ecstacy.
dude, my second sentence - "ecstasy is not exactly a pleasure"
to avoid this crazy ass definition roundabout, I will rephrase: "why do we have a limited propensity for using psychedelics?"
my wife thinks I am partying everyday.
I am not partying every day
I just like some psychedelic effect in the morning and sometimes in the evening.
with small doses, there is no problem to taste this frequently.
with larger doses, your energy becomes depleted.
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Epigallo
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what sort of energy?
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