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InvisibleRahz
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,400
How dangerous is cell phone radiation?
    #8418222 - 05/18/08 09:33 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Just saw this: Radiation may damage babys.

and remembered an article from a few months back which involved a study showing a correlation in cell phone use and cancer rates.

What's to be made of this? Is there a correlation between high cancer lifestyles and cell use? Are women with cell phones generally more stressed out? Or do these reports contain some truth?


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
I am      I feel      I do     I love I speak    I see    I know


“Science advances one funeral at a time”
~Max Planck

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InvisibleJackthaTripper
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Re: How dangerous is cell phone radiation? [Re: Rahz]
    #8418246 - 05/18/08 09:39 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Radiation may damage babies




That's why I never let my infant talk on my cell.


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Come on breakthrough with me...such wonders terrify the soul...it's real no need to question...knowledge infiltrates the host

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InvisibleaDoS
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Re: How dangerous is cell phone radiation? [Re: Rahz]
    #8418288 - 05/18/08 09:51 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

this sounds like it belongs in physical and mental well being


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"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley
:drooling:GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH:drooling:

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InvisibleRahz
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Posts: 9,400
Re: How dangerous is cell phone radiation? [Re: aDoS]
    #8418456 - 05/18/08 10:36 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

It could involve health, but I'm curious about whether it is true or not. Seemed like the right place, but either way is good for me.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
I am      I feel      I do     I love I speak    I see    I know


“Science advances one funeral at a time”
~Max Planck

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: How dangerous is cell phone radiation? [Re: Rahz]
    #8418741 - 05/19/08 12:00 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

It's damaging to humans of all ages.


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: How dangerous is cell phone radiation? [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #8419008 - 05/19/08 01:53 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

i read a really interesting article that said a Japanese study had shown that waves of the normal cell phone frequency type effect the movement of cells (i think it was single celled bacteria?).

not damage them or anything, just change their normal movement patterns.

also i find it fascinating that there are people that are sensitive to EMF and RF frequencies. to such a degree that it can damage their health.

its interesting that we know for a fact that all this radiation is perceivable to the body, but except in those most sensitive, we don't know what the effects are.


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You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: How dangerous is cell phone radiation? [Re: Rahz]
    #8419204 - 05/19/08 05:27 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

This should be in the science and technology forum, so people can affirm that non ionising radiation won't cause cancer.

Which is why I find this article interesting.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-wellbeing/health-news/mobile-phones-more-dangerous-than-smoking-or-asbestos-802602.html?r=RSS
http://www.brain-surgery.us/mobilephone.html
Then a very emotionally charged hit piece "debunking" the claim that mobile phones will kill you.
http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2008/03/cell_phones_and_cancer_real_or.php

Oh, for those that can stomach it, here's a great strawman attack for it's transparency.

Quote:

For one, he has an entire section on "Popular Press and the Internet" which consists of anecdotal reports of cancer clusters in the press, crank websites repeating false claims about cell phones and second-hand reporting on scientific articles. This is hardly a scientific approach to epidemiology or risk assessment, and should be dismissed out of hand as unworthy of discussion in a scientific paper. A review of the literature does not include citations of "www.EMF-Health.com", no kidding, this is one of the sources he mentions. A website that sells the Q-link, a quack remedy for a nonexistent malady!




Attack the messenger, not the message! So far I don't see any debunking, just a twat angry that someone might try to intrude on his reality distortion bubble. He's angry because the article is currently being peer reviewed. Science, especially medical science, is just as corrupt as the dogmatic religions which they have tried to distance themself from. Notice how many inventions and treatments are bunk science, because it bucks the trend? No attempt to try it out, or to do some actual science and experiment, just attack the messenger!

Quote:

In other words, if cell phones interfere with aircraft and hospital electrical equipment (even at quite a distance), how can it be that they don't interfere with the electrical equipment of the head (i.e., the brain, when held for extended periods of time right next to this organ)?

Who's done with this guy now? Do you even have to go on after a statement so absurd? This reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of physics and biology and a terrible argument from analogy. It's an especially bad analogy as the evidence seems to be that cell phones have no effect on plane equipment to the point the FAA has long considered dropping the ban. Finally there is very little physical basis for a carcinogenic link between these radiofrequencies and cancer, so what would be the mechanism? The EM bands used by cell phones are non-ionizing, and do not have a physically plausible mechanism for causing cancer.




Way to go mr "I know everything to do with physics and cancer me." From some armchair blogger who probably watches fox news for factual advice! You know what? I'm going to give more credance for the Dr that did this study, just for the fact he's smart, and you're not, as you make it so plainly ovbious with your jealousy.

Quote:

What about "walkie-talkies" or "CB (Citizens' Band) radios"? Unfortunately, these devices emit at relatively very high power outputs (e.g., 3-4 W) compared to mobile and cordless phones, even though their frequency bands may be lower. They are considered to be the worst offenders of all the mainstream hand-held "wireless" two-way communication devices in terms of electromagnetic radiation exposure. They are widely used by our emergency services, armed forces, construction sites, trucking industry airports and rural communities.

However these devices have been employed for many more decades than cell phones without any observation of higher rates of brain tumors in these types of professions. This argument hurts his position, and is a claim of health risk despite a complete absence of evidence.




People don't hold CB radios to their head, and use them for a few minutes at a time. People have mobiles pressed right up to the skull where it's thin, and talk for hours at a time.

Seriously, anyone that wants to make an arguement for their case, you can't just ignore facts when it suits you. Well you can, and then promptly get shown up for being an ignorant, arrogant cunt. Did I mention this guy has major jealousy of Dr Khurana? I hear the doctor has a bigger penis to.

Quote:

Then there is the highly implausible suggestion that the risk from cell phones is thermal:

The potential effects of mobile phone-associated electromagnetic radiation on tissues include "thermal" and "non-thermal". Thermal effects are due to tissues being heated by rotations of molecules induced by the electromagnetic field. In the case of a cell phone, the head/ear surfaces close to the phone may be induced to heat. This heating has been thought to cause molecules within cells called "heat-shock proteins" to become activated and repeated activation of such proteins by microwaves/electromagnetic radiation can lead to cellular events culminating in cancerous transformation of the cell (C. Jolly & R.I. Morimoto, "Role of heatshock response and molecular chaperones in oncogenesis and cell death"; Journal of the National Cancer Institute (2000) Volume 92; pages 1564-1761).

Dear god, the next source of cancer is going to be hot water bottles. Further, the warmth you feel from your cell phones is due to heat released from discharge of energy from the battery, not from microwave heating of your tissues. Not all microwaves induce vibration of water, it has to be a specific wavelength. Your body is more than capable of handling small amounts of warmth and such a mechanism is thoroughly implausible for oncogenesis otherwise we'd have tumors all over from hot tubs and heated blankets or any routine exposure to heat.




HALO MY NAME IS MARKH AND I KNOW ALLLL ABOUT MICROWAVES ME. DEY R LIK.. HEAT FINGS UP VIA CONVECTION, DUR.

No they don't Mark. Microwaves emit radiative heat, that excites water molecules. You don't know fully how that works, so you haven't got a leg to stand on. Let's go further with this debunking! Come on, I like my mobile phone and so far you are not reassuring me that they are safe to use. All you have done is confirm a) You're a twat. b) You're jealous, c) You have a small penis.

Quote:

I'm not saying it's impossible we'll find out cell phones have some ill health effect, it's just highly improbable, and the data so far is unconvincing. There is a lot of crankery about electrosmog and various other nonsensical fears of "radiation" from people who clearly slept through physics class. The Independent has been at the forefront of promoting such nonsense, and this is no exception.




Talk to me about radiant energy Mr Mark. Explain to me strangelet quarks. Oh, what's that, they didn't cover it in physics class? Well fuck you mr classically educated bigot!


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Offlinezouden
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Re: How dangerous is cell phone radiation? [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8419236 - 05/19/08 06:17 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

K


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,400
Re: How dangerous is cell phone radiation? [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8420357 - 05/19/08 02:53 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

That's the quandary. Piles of data, and no word on what it means. There are alternative explanations even I could think up for the results of the studies.

What we need are substantial numbers of deformed babies, and brain tumors, and data that proves there are no alternative explanations. There are parallels to this dilemma in the global warming debate.

Is this stuff actually preventable (if it's true)? Or, is human ingenuity largely drawn from retrospect? And, assuming cell phones cause cancer, how would we get ourselves out of this mess? I can remember when there were no cell phones. Sure, it would be easy to live without them, but the competition is waiting to pounce, and I don't think people would want to give up their cell communication, even if they were positive it caused a 5-10% increase in cancer risk. How smart is that?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
I am      I feel      I do     I love I speak    I see    I know


“Science advances one funeral at a time”
~Max Planck

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Offlineigwna
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Re: How dangerous is cell phone radiation? [Re: Rahz]
    #8420390 - 05/19/08 03:07 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

thats a funny way to word it

"may damage babies"

i would of expected osmething more like

"is harmful to infants"


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Offlinezouden
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Re: How dangerous is cell phone radiation? [Re: Rahz]
    #8420787 - 05/19/08 04:44 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

That's a good way of looking at it. And I think a lot of the people who claim that mobile phones cause cancer are expecting that in a decade there's going to be millions of people with cancer and it'll be a huge worldwide disaster and all the phones will be taken to landfill and crushed and those people will get the last laugh.

But that's not going to happen. In ten years' time we'll STILL be debating whether they cause cancer, and in twenty years' time we'll have forgotten about it and our attention will be on the next boogeyman.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
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Re: How dangerous is cell phone radiation? (moved) [Re: Rahz]
    #8423743 - 05/20/08 10:53 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

This thread was moved from Philosophy & Spirituality.

Reason:
This has nothing to do with P&S. I'm moving it to the Science forum where it'll get a better response anyway.

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,379
Re: How dangerous is cell phone radiation? [Re: igwna]
    #8424407 - 05/20/08 02:57 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

I bet all the mothers in that study drank water too!

conclusion = water must cause cancer!

Right now, there doesn't appear to be a strong link. Since cell phones have only been in "mass" use for 10 years or so we'll have to wait to see whether there is a significant increase in brain tumors.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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