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Offlinenolongerinuse
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: Elementium]
    #8406508 - 05/15/08 07:05 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Lol, your friend sounds like she's easy to rape.

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Invisiblelegallyhomeless
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: nolongerinuse]
    #8406655 - 05/15/08 07:39 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

This is a good thread, I wish I had something to contribute


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FULLY AUTOMATIC!! 12-Pot Multi Grow Hydroponic System for Trade.


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Offlinerev 766
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: nolongerinuse]
    #8407457 - 05/15/08 10:25 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

new2grow said:
Lol, your friend sounds like she's easy to rape.


:mattz:


--------------------
praise "Bob"
did you mean shmooed-R.I.P.

"drought besets the mind, decay besets the man"-me

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OfflineHippySmoke
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: rev 766]
    #8408138 - 05/16/08 02:11 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Easy to rape!?... I am not going to dignify that with any other than a WTF??

But back to the primary subject I held the same main belief's as you all, but I still wondered if it was possible even if 1 in a million and or if her theory had any root's. My knowledge of genetic's is beyond limited to put it mildly but to not say that mutation is inevitable would be kind of debunking the entire theory of evolution eh? (please no flaming me for my curiousity, lack of knowledge or turning this into a religious subject this is question of science.)

EDIT: Also I was alway's under the belief that psilocybin WAS indeed a poison not unlike food poisoning (or alchohol poisoning in some ways) and therefore as ONE class of poison if something were altered consistenly to cause a stable mutation then is it not possible for the poison to gain a new sort of toxicity? Can anyone please find information from a trusted source as to whether or not psilocybin is really even a poison?

Edited by HippySmoke (05/16/08 02:16 AM)

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Invisiblewisp

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 5,304
Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: HippySmoke]
    #8408203 - 05/16/08 03:12 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

it's about as likely as cultivated apples turning deadly.

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Offlineabica
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: wisp]
    #8408667 - 05/16/08 09:10 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Just go back and look at my definition of poison. Then check out the LD50 dosage. Wait...I guess anything with a median lethal dose is a poison. (not trying to be a smartass, just realized that I was being redundant there lol)


Quote:

to not say that mutation is inevitable would be kind of debunking the entire theory of evolution eh?





From www.evolutionhappens.net:

Quote:

The three main mechanisms are mutation, natural selection and genetic drift. A mutation is any change in the DNA base sequence (genetic information) of a gene. However, only heritable mutations, those occurring in the gametes (reproductive cells) or the cell lineage contributing to the gametes, are involved in evolution. Such mutations, known as germinal mutations, can result from many factors, including natural background radiation, chemical mutagens and viral infection. Because only a small portion of the genetic sequence of the DNA molecule is used to code for proteins, most mutations do not result in new traits. Of the mutations which do result in new traits, most are harmful. That is, they interfere with an organisms physiology or in some other way reduce an organisms adaptability to its environment. However, sometimes just by chance, a mutation will occur which produces a trait that leaves an individual possessing it better adapted to its environment. In most cases, an individual that is better adapted to its environment, will tend to produce more offspring than an individual who is less well adapted.





I don't know enough about psil. synthesis to make any claims, nor do I know enough about how DNA controls or sets up chemical synthesis. But understanding these things, coupled with understanding mutations, would lead you to your answer.

Anyway, the thought that shrooms could suddenly start pumping out psyilo's evil poisonous cousin...that would be an amazing discovery!


--------------------
My first poo tub



Edited by abica (05/16/08 09:18 AM)

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Offlinetheratatat
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: abica]
    #8408782 - 05/16/08 09:52 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

It is very complicated process called transcription involving a physical unraveling of the DNA double helix to read the code within. It is split down the middle and copied to RNA. The mRNA or messenger RNA tells a part of the cell to start creating certain proteins. It would have to be this process that would be involved in causing such a change.

Either way the odds are drastically against this happening and is completely without merit. Where I would worry about this kind of thing is in the GM food market, food that you consume everyday without your knowledge.

Gene splicing techniques are getting better but they are like trying to take out a splinter with your fingers instead of tweezers. Sequences are spliced by accident that are not intended. These processes are much more likely to give rise to genetic mutations when we consume this food.

Tell your friend to re-target her concerns to the people that are directly manipulating the gnome of many species and tell them to be careful.

Cheers

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InvisiblePrimal Glitch
literally just vibing
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: theratatat]
    #8408843 - 05/16/08 10:19 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

you unbelievers! the mutated one will come for you!
:dogapple:


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                                  make the changa you wish to see in the world
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OfflineHippySmoke
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: Primal Glitch]
    #8409778 - 05/16/08 02:42 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

NOW that's what I was looking for the expansion of knowledge!

Abica, Theratatat I do appreciate both of you giving me very knowledgable answers. Now when the argument comes up again I'll have a little bit of ground to stand when explaining to her why I never worry about it, and had never even though of it before she brought it up.

Evolution IMOP is enevitable, evolution or extinction but there are so many factor's that apparently more than I can really comprehend that apparently in a way safeguard mutation from spreading if by some god forsaken chance there was some kind of mutant "sleeping beauty's apple" mushroom or something then it would be an absolutely isolated case (and the chances of it are beyond slim)

Thank you ALL very much for such an intelligent gathering and sharing of idea's and knowledge.

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Offlineabica
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: HippySmoke]
    #8409948 - 05/16/08 03:29 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I think you've hit it on the head with the "isolated case" but even that is an extremely remote possibility.

I'd need more knowledge about chemical synthesis, but just venturing a wild know-nothing guess, I'd say that the "programming" related to synthesis is somewhat complex- the organism sets up a "system" of sorts to pump out whatever chemical it is designed to make.

A mutation in that system would be much more likely to halt production of any chemical what so ever than to make it start producing something new...that's my totally uneducated guess.

Even though her idea was sort of akin to the moon being green cheese, it is an interesting conversation that makes me want to leisurely learn a bit more about our favorite fun guy.


--------------------
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OfflineTheMycMan
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: HippySmoke]
    #24912463 - 01/14/18 12:54 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Technically, and i mean very technically. This could happen.
HOWEVER, the likelihood of this one off mutation is so slim that it is virtually impossible.

Okay so consider a Hypothetical scenario where the mushroom in question was isolated several times and during some point in their growth from germ to fruit encountered a mutation in the DNA (be it through damage caused by UV or otherwise) that caused a new chemical compound to be produced by the mycelial mass.

You obviously would likely be entirely unaware that you were breeding this mushroom to eventually be deadly, but that also means that as you continue to isolate the genome by following your desired mutations this trait could potentially be sourced out, or may in fact continue to grow in the host.

The likelihood of this scenario in reality is slim to none and i mean SLIM.
Because new mycelial growth is always subject to genetic change or variation even isolating a separate genome in the first place would be difficult.

Think of it like if the fungi was producing another chemical and at such a high rate can it still interbreed with the "same" species or can we even at that point consider it the same species at all. I'd compare that to taking the time scale from one species to another like wolves to dogs which took tens of thousands of years and shortening it down to a few hundred.

Also i know im rambling but natural selection and selective breeding both work in similar ways in that the more successful traits will outlive the less productive given the right conditions or hindrances.

This poison you suggested would hinder the mushrooms survival for i find it very likely that after consuming some of the first mushies that came from your poisonous mutant you'd probably get sick and not eat them or at the very least conduct some experiments.

Cheers!

P.S. tell your friend that this is not a theory and that its mearly an unsupported hypothesis and that they should explore ways to discover the implications behind it by eating an growing the mushrooms with you.

BTW everyone who made comments about apples becoming poisonous: Apples as we know them in our markets are ALL clones. Every single apple seed planted has an EXTREMELY highly rate of mutation which makes apple trees an anomaly when it comes to genetic shift. (not the best example you could have used)

In fact apples already contain several of the prochemicals needed to naturally produce hydrogen cyanide which even in very small dosages is deadly. This cyanide compound can actually be produced naturally in the wild as well if yeast and fungi do not infest the rotting fruit body (apple) then the deadly agents will synthesize within the apple. i.e. poison apples.

I challenge anyone to go plant 100 apple trees and grow them tall and eat their apples and not have a single one that at the very least makes them vomit.

oh and BUMP!


--------------------
Science can and will solve all of our problems. Science denial will destroy the world as we know it.

Edited by TheMycMan (01/14/18 01:16 AM)

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Offlinegoodman1
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Registered: 01/14/18
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: TheMycMan] * 1
    #24912868 - 01/14/18 07:47 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I agree, although this is a damn old thread, I don't know why everyone was jumping to talk about how psilocybin isn't poisonous, ya we already know thats not what the OP was asking...

a genetic mutation that produces some kind of toxin isn't impossible, just highly unlikely. Should be more worried about the flu virus mutating and killing us all, as this is actually somewhat likely to happen at some point. And by the way even stamets used to talk about some kind of unidentified neuro-toxin in some strains of azurescens.

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: HippySmoke] * 1
    #24913020 - 01/14/18 07:47 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
This thread rides the short bus

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