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OfflineHippySmoke
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The theory of unavoidable mutation.
    #8405615 - 05/15/08 02:45 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

My friend has never consumed a single mushie because she firmly believes in a theory that I would like to call "unavoidable mutation".

She firmly believes that even when cultivating the species and taking every step possible to control the conditions eventually there will be one "mutant" shroom or in some cases even a mutant "batch" that will most definately contain a non psychedelic poison which can either A. cause vomiting or B. a number of other options one being death.

I assured her as long as your intelligent, observant and patient her theory is not so... well... good to put it mildly. Then we began a heated discussion of the subject and I eventually yielded to her theory but only in WILD cases (IE: cubensis on some cow poo never touched by man all conditions are dependant on nature)

But some experienced shroomers I have to ask... her theory is bunk right? As least in the the case of human cultivation.
Is the theory bunk?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (05/15/08 02:44 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll


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Offlinejohnny.fairplay
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Registered: 05/04/08
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: HippySmoke]
    #8405619 - 05/15/08 02:48 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Thats like saying if i raise apples i shouldn't eat them because they might mutate to make poisons.

Total bunk

More mushies for you though!


--------------------
My trade thread

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Offlinexshadowmage666x
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: johnny.fairplay]
    #8405624 - 05/15/08 02:49 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

johnny.fairplay said:
Thats like saying if i raise apples i shouldn't eat them because they might mutate to make poisons.

Total bunk

More mushies for you though!




:werd:


--------------------

"It is the prayer of my innermost being to realize my supreme identity in the liberated play of consciousness, the Vast Expanse. Now is the moment, Here is the place of Liberation. " -alex grey

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Offlinenonlinear
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: johnny.fairplay]
    #8405637 - 05/15/08 02:53 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

yea, and there would be reports all over the place of people dying after eating mushrooms. Actually, psilocybin mushrooms are known to be very safe and non-toxic


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Offlinetheratatat
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: xshadowmage666x] * 1
    #8405655 - 05/15/08 02:58 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Those kind of mutations would be next to impossible, the species isn't poisonous. The DNA synthesis process has many safeguards to prevent errors during transcription. A major error that slipped through would result in the species being non-functional. Such as a fetus that doesn't make it to term.

How often do you see humans grow an extra facial feature or an entirely new organ? On the other hand slight variations in DNA result in already present features being tweaked.

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Offlinexshadowmage666x
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: theratatat]
    #8405675 - 05/15/08 03:05 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

theratatat said:
Those kind of mutations would be next to impossible, the species isn't poisonous. The DNA synthesis process has many safeguards to prevent errors during transcription. A major error that slipped through would result in the species being non-functional. Such as a fetus that doesn't make it to term.

How often do you see humans grow an extra facial feature or an entirely new organ? On the other hand slight variations in DNA result in already present features being tweaked.




stfu we arent talking about people here

and for the record psilicybin IS a poison


--------------------

"It is the prayer of my innermost being to realize my supreme identity in the liberated play of consciousness, the Vast Expanse. Now is the moment, Here is the place of Liberation. " -alex grey

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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: nonlinear]
    #8405698 - 05/15/08 03:12 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

nonlinear said:
yea, and there would be reports all over the place of people dying after eating mushrooms. Actually, psilocybin mushrooms are known to be very safe and non-toxic




Not true, it can kill you..It depends on the person..


--------------------
:Awesketch:

:cool: Fair is Fair :devil:

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Offlineabica
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: Brainiac]
    #8405733 - 05/15/08 03:21 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

This young lady doesn't know much about genetics, does she?

Anyway, regardless of the near total impossibility of your shrooms or my FOAF's cat's pet cute little goldfish suddenly becoming poisonous,

Quote:


The toxicity of psilocybin is relatively low; in rats, the oral LD50 is 280mg/kg, approximately one and a half times that of caffeine. When administered intravenously in rabbits, psilocybin's LD50 is approximately 12.5mg/kg.[10] The lethal dose from psilocybin intake alone is unknown at recreational or medicinal levels, and has never been documented.



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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: abica]
    #8405742 - 05/15/08 03:23 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

If water can kill, Psilocybin can...


--------------------
:Awesketch:

:cool: Fair is Fair :devil:

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Offlinetheratatat
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: xshadowmage666x]
    #8405750 - 05/15/08 03:24 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

We are actually more closely related to fungus then plants or bacteria, so I really don't think you know what you are talking about.

You are also spouting garbage from the MADD or something. The LD 50 of psilocybin is higher then caffine or nictoine, Are they poisons?

You might also want to let me know what part in particular about my statement that you don't think is factual. So I can correct in the future.

Edited by theratatat (05/15/08 03:34 PM)

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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: theratatat]
    #8405781 - 05/15/08 03:34 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I have a Mushroom Poisondex Poster..It classifieds Psilocybin as Class E, Group 6. Says it can be fatal to small kids..

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Offlinetheratatat
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: Brainiac]
    #8405800 - 05/15/08 03:39 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

As can plastic bags and buckets half filled with water.

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Offlinenavyseals101
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: HippySmoke]
    #8405806 - 05/15/08 03:41 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

HippySmoke said:
My friend has never consumed a single mushie because she firmly believes in a theory that I would like to call "unavoidable mutation".

She firmly believes that even when cultivating the species and taking every step possible to control the conditions eventually there will be one "mutant" shroom or in some cases even a mutant "batch" that will most definately contain a non psychedelic poison which can either A. cause vomiting or B. a number of other options one being death.

I assured her as long as your intelligent, observant and patient her theory is not so... well... good to put it mildly. Then we began a heated discussion of the subject and I eventually yielded to her theory but only in WILD cases (IE: cubensis on some cow poo never touched by man all conditions are dependant on nature)

But some experienced shroomers I have to ask... her theory is bunk right? As least in the the case of human cultivation.




this is totally stupid

anytime you question someones conclusion look at their premise they use to come to the conclusion.. In this case, it was probably rumored around by word of mouth


--------------------
"Ten thousand flowers in spring
the moon in autumn,
a cool breeze in summer,
snow in winter.
If your mind isn't clouded by unnecessary things,
this is the best season of your life."
            -wumen

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Offlineabica
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: theratatat]
    #8405844 - 05/15/08 03:52 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Regardless of which kingdom we're talking about...

What are the chances of an organism suddenly synthesizing a new compound? Even one atom different from what that organism has been crankin' out for the last 2000 years since the world was created?

I'm not asking that as a rhetorical question, because I don't know the answer. But I bet the answer is "oh, somewhere around 1 in 4 billion." ???

Of course caffeine and nicotine are poisons. I guess? It doesn't take a hell of a lot of nicotine to poison someone.

From Webster's New World Medical Dictionary:

Quote:

Poison: Any substance that can cause severe distress or death if ingested, breathed in, or absorbed through the skin. Many substances that normally cause no problems, including water and most vitamins, can be poisonous if taken in too large of a quantity.



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Offlineaerofanbig
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Registered: 02/04/08
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: abica]
    #8406004 - 05/15/08 04:39 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

seriously? you're friend rides the short bus. thats like saying a pie might suddenly turn into a steak lol

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Offlinerev 766
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: aerofanbig]
    #8406310 - 05/15/08 06:12 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

i honestly can't remember where i read it, it was quite some time ago, but i saw something to the effect of mushrooms are safer for your body than pot. but since the federal government says that also has no use, i guess it really IS dangerous
:stonedjerk:


--------------------
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did you mean shmooed-R.I.P.

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InvisibleBlimeyGrimey
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: xshadowmage666x]
    #8406367 - 05/15/08 06:30 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

xshadowmage666x said:

stfu we arent talking about people here

and for the record psilicybin IS a poison




theratatat had a valid point. he used human genetics as a reference. genetics are the same whether its a plant, bacteria, fungi or animal.

For the record its spelled psilocybin, jackass.


--------------------
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Looking for wild Panaeolus cinctulus and Panaeolus olivaceus prints.

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OfflineOverclock22
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: BlimeyGrimey] * 1
    #8406399 - 05/15/08 06:38 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Mutations, almost all of the time, aren't useful and only hurt the creature.

Its one of the major faults with evolution; most mutations we see in nature wouldn't lead to a new species because the sex cells haven't changed just something on he parent.


--------------------
He did not laugh as his eyes stopped in awareness of the earth around him. His face was like a law of nature-a thing one could not question, alter or implore. It had high cheekbones over gaunt, hollow cheeks; gray eyes, cold and steady; a contemptuous mouth, shut tight, the mouth of an executioner or a saint.

If you wake up at a different time in a different place, can you wake up a different person?

Cf. A.C. Doyle "I'll rise above this, you can't keep me down, for I am Divine, and I know it all too well."

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OfflineLennyk
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: rev 766]
    #8406418 - 05/15/08 06:41 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

The toxicity is less than aspirin. So it goes to show we can down bottles of Tylenol (hell for the body) but when it comes to mushrooms, just too dangerous for us:mad2:

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InvisibleElementium
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Re: The theory of unavoidable mutation. [Re: Lennyk]
    #8406455 - 05/15/08 06:49 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Lennyk said:
The toxicity is less than aspirin. So it goes to show we can down bottles of Tylenol (hell for the body) but when it comes to mushrooms, just too dangerous for us:mad2:




Playing devil's advocate here... but, the disputed potential risks of Psilocybin aren't solely physical.

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