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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: infidelGOD]
    #837201 - 08/23/02 01:36 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Psychedelics ARE 5-HT agonists

I guess this means serotonin is a psychedelic


Someone failed basic logic.

Collies are dogs.

Poodles are dogs (sort of ).

Therefore poodles are collies? Doesn't work that way.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Swami]
    #837205 - 08/23/02 01:45 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Whether it's bad logic or not depends on what Sclorch meant by "Psychedelics ARE 5-HT agonists".

I thought he was equating the two terms as opposed to defining one as a catagory of the other (such as Collies are dogs).
Basic logic is never basic when symantics get in the way.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Swami]
    #837441 - 08/23/02 06:44 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

How can attempting to understand the neurochemistry behind the psychedelic experience be completely worthless? Knowledge has no value?

Please try and respond to what I am saying rather than your own imagination.

Understanding the physical process is another thing entirely from addressing why it exists. Your logic (as usual) is ass backwards. It is akin to saying "The red blood cells appear to be damaged" when studying an infected woud and leaving your explanation at that. There is clearly a far bigger story behind infection than the immediate effect on the bodys cells, as there is with psychedelic effects. This is what we need to address.

And as someone mentioned earlier, our "understanding" of the physical effects of psychedelics is third-grade at best.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Xlea321]
    #837486 - 08/23/02 07:14 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Please try and respond to what I am saying rather than your own imagination.
Sorry that I actually responded to your words instead of your as-yet-to-be-written account of blood platelets. My prescient skills are not that finely honed yet. I should 'know' that a psychedelic experience is like a blood infection is like a Hendrix solo...

Your logic (as usual) is ass backwards.
The love that you exhibit is these boards is in direct opposition to the values that you espouse.





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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Swami]
    #837511 - 08/23/02 07:30 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

My prescient skills are not that finely honed yet.

Bro, you're really letting me down.

Cheers,


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: ]
    #837521 - 08/23/02 07:36 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

*Hangs head* Guess I will have to delete the "Seer" part of my self-description...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Swami]
    #837678 - 08/23/02 08:53 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I should 'know' that a psychedelic experience is like a blood infection is like a Hendrix solo...

Well, I'm glad to see you dropped your ludicrous 5HT "explanation" at least


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineJust a Punk
Shithawk

Registered: 12/26/00
Posts: 1,145
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Sclorch]
    #837689 - 08/23/02 09:00 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Once when I was on mushrooms I went in Denny's.

For some reason I had an overwhelming feeling of sickness.

When I left Denny's I felt better.


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-------------------------------------------------
:B


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Swami]
    #837698 - 08/23/02 09:03 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

will have to delete the "Seer" part of my self-description...

That would make sense.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Xlea321]
    #837840 - 08/23/02 10:07 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Seriously Alex, I know a good surgeon... I'm pretty sure he could help you. He has said that he's never had any complications in any of his surgeries involving removal of foreign objects from the lower GI tract. Let me know if you're interested, I'll PM you his number. BTW, his secretary is hot.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Sclorch]
    #838106 - 08/23/02 12:11 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Save it for your therapist.



--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Sclorch]
    #838149 - 08/23/02 12:40 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I'll PM you his number

hey, it would make a change from you sending me your childish insults by PM. Knock yourself out.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Sclorch]
    #838512 - 08/23/02 04:35 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

OK. back to neuroscience - the reason we don't understand the pharmacology of classical hallucinagens is that we don't know what serotonin does. If these 5HT agonists mimick serotonin, its function must be related to them.

We may never know how they work because it's not just about pharmacology, the question is how does a molecule create experience? How does matter (our brains) create thought?
We may eventually find out EXACTLY how neurotransmitters and their chemical analogues physically behave in the brain but that won't tell us how the matter/thought barrier is breached. Thought and consciousness is a mystery to science and will remain that way in the current scientific paradigm.

About classical hallucinagens resembling serotonin;
Remember that "5HT agonism" actually only describes the shape of a molecule. Though that may be important to its function, a molecule has other properties that may contribute to its effects.


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Anonymous

Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Swami]
    #838726 - 08/23/02 06:20 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Guess I will have to delete the "Seer" part of my self-description...

Nah, just change it to "sear".

ahem, like the man said, "Back to numerology" or was that "neuroscience"?

Sorry for the comic interlude.

Please continue.

Cheers,


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InvisibleGRTUD
INFP
Male

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 270
Loc: United States
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Sclorch]
    #838899 - 08/23/02 07:41 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Damn, all those years worshiping spoons, wasted.....well I'm glad the government replaced the steel plate in my head with a plastic one so I can take part in your magnet project! (Although the part in my hair will never be the same.)


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"New shit has come to light..."


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OfflineCalen
journeyman
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 87
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Sclorch]
    #839044 - 08/23/02 08:36 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I think there must be a neural pathway that weighs out the significance of a particular experience... and I think this pathway can be REALLY altered by 5-HT agonists. Oftentimes I've found myself feeling like I'm experiencing some "greater truth" and in actuality, nothing is happening. Even if there are no strong visuals or body load, this feeling can still be there... nagging me.

Sounds like what NLP describes as anchors in the memory map. Such events elicit a strong (negative or positive) experience/reaction will stay anchored in memory. Such anchor points in the map willl fire off again when there are triggers.

Or you're just possessed. ..And higher doses also means the greater possibility of traumatizing your brain.. Hence, those naggings get will get more intense.


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Anonymous

Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Calen]
    #839725 - 08/24/02 05:43 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting that you brought up NLP. That is rarely mentioned in this forum.

Are you evolving?

Cheers,


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OfflineCalen
journeyman
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 87
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: ]
    #840533 - 08/24/02 02:18 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, I am. Rather, I'm shedding dead skins I don't need any more.

My NLP knowledge is limited at the moment. I did personally meet a certified trainer who's previous professional background was in psychology. I can sum his words up by saing: "Life is a software program with subprograms." My understanding from him is: a person can utilize debugging known as reframing and scripting to correct glitchy beliefs; uses a specific programing language like liinguitics to modify behavioral patterns; develops well-formed outcomes [glitch-free compiled programs] to anchor reframings.






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