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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Registered: 06/25/01
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Direct contact
    #8370003 - 05/06/08 08:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This concept came from Jon-Kabat Zinn's Wherever you Go, There you Are:

We are all carrying around ideas and images of the world around us. We gather and collect them from other people, television, books, and culture in general. As a result, most often we see our thoughts (or someone else's) instead of seeing what is right in front of us. Often we don't even bother to discern what it is we are seeing from the thoughts we have about it. We assume we already know the story behind it, because of the way our mind floods with related thoughts when we see something or someone.

We take these thoughts at face value, as if they are properties of the thing we see, often unaware we are even thinking at all. This closes us to the vividness and detail of each encounter, because we have already summed up the encounter with our preconceptions, and there is no room for closer inspection, for suspension of judgment.

This creates unnecessary distance between us and what we perceive. Our thoughts act as a stiff glove for handling everything in life. We almost forget that direct contact is possible. We live in this dulled version of reality and never try to make sense of why we feel so jaded and weary so much of the time.

This is the mechanism behind all fear and aversion, all feelings of inadequacy and contempt.

Next time you see a person, ask yourself how much of your impression is what you see, and how much is what you are thinking about what you see. It is astonishing just how much crap we load on top of our perceptions by trying to interpret them, and how vivid and unique everything is without it.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Direct contact [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8370100 - 05/06/08 08:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Judgmental interpretation of perception turned into generalized projection....
It is difficult not to automatically do it sometimes....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Direct contact [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8370121 - 05/06/08 08:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
This concept came from Jon-Kabat Zinn's Wherever you Go, There you Are:

We are all carrying around ideas and images of the world around us. We gather and collect them from other people, television, books, and culture in general. As a result, most often we see our thoughts (or someone else's) instead of seeing what is right in front of us. Often we don't even bother to discern what it is we are seeing from the thoughts we have about it. We assume we already know the story behind it, because of the way our mind floods with related thoughts when we see something or someone.

We take these thoughts at face value, as if they are properties of the thing we see, often unaware we are even thinking at all. This closes us to the vividness and detail of each encounter, because we have already summed up the encounter with our preconceptions, and there is no room for closer inspection, for suspension of judgment.

This creates unnecessary distance between us and what we perceive. Our thoughts act as a stiff glove for handling everything in life. We almost forget that direct contact is possible. We live in this dulled version of reality and never try to make sense of why we feel so jaded and weary so much of the time.

This is the mechanism behind all fear and aversion, all feelings of inadequacy and contempt.

Next time you see a person, ask yourself how much of your impression is what you see, and how much is what you are thinking about what you see. It is astonishing just how much crap we load on top of our perceptions by trying to interpret them, and how vivid and unique everything is without it.




This is human culture and unavoidable IMO. At best you can tweak it a little and know you are doing it. At worst you believe all your stories.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Direct contact [Re: Icelander]
    #8371850 - 05/07/08 05:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

ice - i think you are externalizing the adding of mental properties to society as opposed to the self.
society is just one of the sources of ideas, the self will collect ideas even alone in a forest.
society as a source of ideas is as good as it is bad which means if you can navigate through it
- much better than alone.

direct contact is a terrific direction to follow


--------------------


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Direct contact [Re: Icelander]
    #8372229 - 05/07/08 10:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

This is human culture and unavoidable IMO. At best you can tweak it a little and know you are doing it. At worst you believe all your stories.




:smile:

I thought you'd say something like that.  There is actually a vast amount of room for tweaking.  Human nature seems to conquer all on a global scale, but at the individual level there is a tremendous amount of work can be done to overcome our impulses and opinions, as long as you don't leave it up to the rest of humanity to change first.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
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Re: Direct contact [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8372236 - 05/07/08 10:30 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Nice and down to earth, its true too. sounds like a good read.


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,678
Re: Direct contact [Re: daytripper23]
    #8372362 - 05/07/08 11:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
This concept came from Jon-Kabat Zinn's Wherever you Go, There you Are:

We are all carrying around ideas and images of the world around us.  We gather and collect them from other people, television, books, and culture in general.  As a result, most often we see our thoughts (or someone else's) instead of seeing what is right in front of us.  Often we don't even bother to discern what it is we are seeing from the thoughts we have about it.  We assume we already know the story behind it, because of the way our mind floods with related thoughts when we see something or someone.

We take these thoughts at face value, as if they are properties of the thing we see, often unaware we are even thinking at all.  This closes us to the vividness and detail of each encounter, because we have already summed up the encounter with our preconceptions, and there is no room for closer inspection, for suspension of judgment.

This creates unnecessary distance between us and what we perceive.  Our thoughts act as a stiff glove for handling everything in life.  We almost forget that direct contact is possible.  We live in this dulled version of reality and never try to make sense of why we feel so jaded and weary so much of the time.

This is the mechanism behind all fear and aversion, all feelings of inadequacy and contempt.

Next time you see a person, ask yourself how much of your impression is what you see, and how much is what you are thinking about what you see.  It is astonishing just how much crap we load on top of our perceptions by trying to interpret them, and how vivid and unique everything is without it.





Very nice post, everything you can think has been passed to you, this isn't reality, this is just concepts, thoughts, mental constructs that have no true foundations in the source, just thoughts passing in the empty sky, that we cling to and identify with.

To go beyond you have to start to see that your mind is not your mind, this body is not your body, these thoughts are not your thoughts, you are merely the consciousness of these things, anything you can perceive can not be the true you, only then can you take out this middle man who always has something to say, with some ficticious internal commentary always going on solidifying a perception of separatness, bringing in a feeling of incredible unfullfillment & dissatisfaction.

Once this middle man of thought & concept is gone you are free, you are then living in a state of no-mind, non separation, fullfilled, at peace, home. Nature is then so beautiful there are no words, it is like tripping all the time really with no bad trips!

The "distance between us and what we perceive" is totally anihilated. You can still move to the mind and use it much more effectivley than before theres just none of the misery that comes with sefishness & greed that comes with the belief "i am the mind"

:peace:


--------------------
   
   


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