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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
A little neuroscience
    #836261 - 08/22/02 04:03 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I think there must be a neural pathway that weighs out the significance of a particular experience... and I think this pathway can be REALLY altered by 5-HT agonists. Oftentimes I've found myself feeling like I'm experiencing some "greater truth" and in actuality, nothing is happening. Even if there are no strong visuals or body load, this feeling can still be there... nagging me.

I'll be sitting in Denny's and all of a sudden, it will hit me... "This spoon! This spoon is what it's all about, man!!" The more I've tripped, the more I realize that the spoon is just a spoon and that "face" I've been seeing in the spoon is just waterspots. Since I've been in many different settings on varying dosages of varying 5-HT agonists; and I didn't have this feeling everytime (as I don't always get powerful visuals everytime), I have concluded that my neural architecture is responsible for such delusions of grandeur.

Each particular time, the threshold of these neural pathways just happened to be reached and an action potential was created. Since no trip is easily duplicated (for me at least), it MUST be due to the random manner in which the 5-HT agonist disperses itself in my brain. Since it takes so many molecules to trigger so many receptors, it is only a natural consequence that as concentrations of 5-HT agonists increase, more and more receptors are triggered which leads to a greater likelihood of having a certain pathway triggered. So, high doses tend to mean more visuals, more divine feelings, and so forth.

If 'wet nanotechnology' progresses quickly in the next few years, I'd like to devise a project to tag 5-HT agonists so that they could be manipulated (via magnetic fields?) and monitored. Maybe I could use something like magnetic resonance to monitor these tagged molecules as the worked. What is my goal? Well, to map an individual's brain (note I said 'individual'). If such a thing could be done... there would be some amazing possibilities to follow (I'll withold those for now).


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Sclorch]
    #836289 - 08/22/02 04:18 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Stop trying to take the 'magic' out of Magic Mushrooms! It is NOt a spoon, but an alien tuning device...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Sclorch]
    #836313 - 08/22/02 04:31 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Interesting...


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Offlinemirror_saw
journeyman
Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 59
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Sclorch]
    #836397 - 08/22/02 05:05 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I think there must be a neural pathway that weighs out the significance of a particular experience... all of a sudden, it will hit me... "This spoon! This spoon is what it's all about, man!!" The more I've tripped, the more I realize that the spoon is just a spoon

But if you are right, do you believe it will help to tell you the true significance of the spoon? Actually, the spoon is a bad example...

If existence can become imbued with meaning and significance under the influence of a psychedelic drug, will knowing more about the chemical basis for the perception tell you with certainty if the experience is real or unreal?


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Offlineshroom666
Dude

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 140
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: mirror_saw]
    #836411 - 08/22/02 05:11 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

It aint no spoon, its a fork. It aint no fork, its a bananna, Bananna?
I meant appricot.


--------------------
"They all float down here....they all float!!"
"Life is not an act, midgets are real fun"
"What you feel, it might not be"


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: mirror_saw]
    #836431 - 08/22/02 05:18 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

If existence can become imbued with meaning and significance under the influence of a psychedelic drug, will knowing more about the chemical basis for the perception tell you with certainty if the experience is real or unreal?

No... in this case, reality is entirely subjective. But knowing the neurophysiology behind those experiences would help us to map the brain.
I think real and unreal are perceptions of coherence, so they can only be indirectly (read: less randomly) affected by psychedelics. What I'd like to do is figure out a precise way of triggering specific neural pathways via chemicals.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Sclorch]
    #836629 - 08/22/02 06:45 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)


I always found it interesting that plants and fungi that lack nervous systems can create chemicals that so closely match neurotransmitters. It might be a randomly evolved defense mechanism but I wouldn't rule out the possibility that it is a form of communication.
The last time I smoked Salvia, a thought stuck in my mind - "if plants could talk, this is what they would say". It was like a primal form of communication between two living things - no language necessary.

From mushrooms to trees to cacti, so many completely unrelated plants and fungi producing chemicals similar to neurotransmitters can't be a coincidence.



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Anonymous

Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Sclorch]
    #836652 - 08/22/02 06:54 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Good stuff, Sclorch. Keep it up.

Cheers,


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: mirror_saw]
    #836669 - 08/22/02 07:00 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

"This spoon! This spoon is what it's all about, man!!"

Cheech, is that you? No, wait - it's Uri Geller! He must have had a spoon-epiphany as he made his fortune using his mental powers (read fingers) bending them.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Swami]
    #836779 - 08/22/02 07:52 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)



Uri Geller, what a fakir!

Cheers,


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: ]
    #836838 - 08/22/02 08:16 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Infidelgod- we've already had this discussion on Shroomunication (mine).

Uri Geller, yeah, what a fakir! (a=uc; i=e)


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Sclorch]
    #836851 - 08/22/02 08:22 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Although this technology could be used for evil purposes, I think there would be some extremely healthy applications.
1. Breaking cycles (addiction, depression, etc.).
2. Restoring memory by patching circuits (amnesia, head trauma, etc.).
3. It might be applied to some mental disorders (this is most questionable though).
Getting dangerous now...
4. Virtual reality devices (ever seen Existenz or 13th Floor or The Matrix?).
5. Metaprogramming.
6. Mind exploration.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Sclorch]
    #836880 - 08/22/02 08:35 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Your most meaningful experience is looking at a spoon? That's worse than swami's!

Maybe you should forget all about "5HT agonists" and work on developing your character. As K Trout said "It is always the student who must do the work". Make yourself worthy of the sacrament and you might have a more rewarding experience. .


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: infidelGOD]
    #836890 - 08/22/02 08:39 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Well said. And remember no-one has the faintest idea why these compounds have the effect they do. As Schultes and Huston smith pointed out, saying things like they affect "5HT" agonists is completly worthless and no explanation for anything.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Xlea321]
    #836908 - 08/22/02 08:49 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

God Alex123, you sure are a ?o?ksucker!

I never said anything of the sort. That actually never happened to ME. It was a quasi-anecdote... a little story used to express an idea. Apparently you're still hung up with your own ego.

I've had plenty of rewarding experiences. This isn't one of them.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Sclorch]
    #836914 - 08/22/02 08:53 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

God Alex123, you sure are a ?o?ksucker!


Please desist from petty childish insults.

Thanks.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Xlea321]
    #836920 - 08/22/02 08:57 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

As Schultes and Huston smith pointed out, saying things like they affect "5HT" agonists is completly worthless and no explanation for anything.

Are they world-renowned neuroscientists? Didn't think so.

I especially like your post here, because it proves you don't know squat about neurophysiology...
"they affect "5HT" agonists"
This means what exactly? It's gibberish. Psychedelics ARE 5-HT agonists... they don't AFFECT anything other than 5-HT receptors (serotonin receptors) when they bind to them.

Visit Heffter.org and read up on neurophysiology before you start swinging to defend your precious ego. Wake up, man, this post had nothing to do with you.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Sclorch]
    #837110 - 08/22/02 11:21 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

they don't AFFECT anything other than 5-HT receptors (serotonin receptors) when they bind to them.

not necessarily, scientists are a long way from understanding how psychedelics work. We can't be certain that receptor agonism causes all of the subjective effects. There may be other mechanisms of action that we don't know about.

Psychedelics ARE 5-HT agonists

I guess this means serotonin is a psychedelic.


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Sclorch]
    #837151 - 08/23/02 12:23 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I agree that physiologically this is how the drug compound is interacting with your brain and it's chemistry, however that doesn't mean you can't derive truth for yourself, or spiritulaity or....whatever out of it.

Basically I think drugs tap what every human brain is capable of doing on it's own. The drug helps us step outside ourselves to see things differently. Not that the drug is some magical gift from the goddess of the earth but rather, our brains haven't learned these capabilities.


Just my opinion!!


--------------------
An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: A little neuroscience [Re: Xlea321]
    #837198 - 08/23/02 01:34 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

saying things like they affect "5HT" agonists is completly worthless

How can attempting to understand the neurochemistry behind the psychedelic experience be completely worthless? Knowledge has no value?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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