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Offlinelonestar2004
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The will of the people vs Obama’s elites.
    #8353139 - 05/02/08 12:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Polls show voters drift to Clinton, Superdelegates to Obama


WASHINGTON (AP) — Polls showed voters drifting toward Hillary Rodham Clinton before crucial Democratic primary votes next week, but the all-important party superdelegates — whose backing is now essential for the nomination — were falling increasingly in line behind Barack Obama.

Despite the momentum building behind Clinton after her win in Pennsylvania, it still appeared mathematically impossible for her to overcome Obama's delegate lead for the party nomination.

In the past two months, Obama has whittled Clinton's superdelegate lead by half, a key gain for the Illinois senator because neither candidate can win the 2,025 delegates needed for nomination in the remaining nine state and territorial contests.

Clinton has a 20-superdelegate lead, 268-248, but Obama holds the overall advantage in delegates, including committed superdelegates, 1,736.5-1,602.5.

That means the superdelegates, the nearly 800 party officials and office holders free to back either candidate regardless of state votes, will decide the nominee. So far 516 have chosen sides.

Regardless, Clinton appeared to be gaining strength among voters, especially the white working-class which has reacted negatively to Obama's association with Rev. Jeremiah Wright — the Illinois senator's former pastor who called from the pulpit for God to damn America for it's treatment of African Americans.

Reflecting that shift, a poll released Thursday by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press showed Clinton's lead over Obama nationally among whites who did not attend college had increased from 10 points in March to 40 points at the end of April.

That voting bloc played heavily in Clinton's substantial win last week in Pennsylvania and was likely to be just as critical Tuesday, when voters cast ballots in Indiana. Pre-vote surveys there showed the outcome was a toss-up.

A second poll released Thursday carried more potential bad news for Obama, this in North Carolina, which votes in tandem with Indiana.

The Mason-Dixon Polling & Research Inc. survey for two television stations in the state showed Obama's double-digit lead had slipped to just seven points, 49-42.

Nationwide, the Pew poll showed, Democratic voters now are about evenly divided, with Obama holding a statistically insignificant 47-45 margin. In late March he was up 10 points, 49-39.

The latest Gallup tracking survey had Clinton leading 49-45, after a week of showing them nearly even. Obama held a 10-percentage point margin going into Pennsylvania.

The prolonged and divisive campaign was of particular concern for Democrats concerned about damage being done to the party's chances in the fall against presumptive Republican nominee Sen. John McCain.

McCain on Thursday went into the heart of America's farm belt to Iowa, a place where subsidies for corn and ethanol fuel are wildly popular, to denounce agricultural subsidies.

Congress is struggling to finish a nearly $300 billion (euro193.05 billion) bill that McCain says is bloated with subsidies for wealthy farmers. The bill would pay for farm and nutrition programs for the next five years.

"I have to give you a little straight talk about the farm bill that is wending its way through Congress. I do not support it. I would veto it. I would do that because I believe that the subsidies are unnecessary," he said.

His long-held position against subsidies has cost him in Iowa, the state that traditionally begins the presidential nominating process and is a potential swing state in the fall.

Despite his ties to U.S. President George W. Bush, whose approval rating is below 30 percent, McCain is running close to both Clinton and Obama in hypothetical matchups.

Those fears led former Democratic National Committee Chairman Joe Andrew on Thursday to switch his backing to Obama, despite having been named to the top party job by former President Bill Clinton.

"This has got to come to an end," Andrew told reporters in his hometown of Indianapolis. He said he planned to call all the other superdelegates he knows and encourage them to back Obama.

In a lengthy letter explaining his decision, Andrew said he changed candidates because "a vote for Hillary Clinton is a vote to continue this process, and a vote to continue this process is a vote that assists (Republican) John McCain."

"The ship is taking on water right now," Andrew said at the news conference. "We need to patch those holes, heal the rift and go forward to beat John McCain."

Asked for a response to Andrew's decision, Clinton spokesman Phil Singer said, "We support that Democratic process and think that every American should be able to weigh in and support the candidate of his or her own choosing."

Clinton adviser Harold Ickes also sent a memo to superdelegates Thursday arguing that the polls prove she is the strongest candidate to beat McCain. Among the polls they cited was an Associated Press-Ipsos survey out this week that showed Clinton leading McCain by 9 percentage points, while Obama is virtually tied with the likely Republican nominee.

This week, Obama picked up nine superdelegates, plus three add-on delegates named by the Illinois Democratic Party. Clinton gained four new superdelegates, while also picking up four add-on delegates from her home state of New York.

In the southwestern state of New Mexico, a group of Clinton supporters, including four New Mexico superdelegates, has accused the state Democratic Party of breaking national and state party rules when it nominated a 12th superdelegate.

The woman chosen has said she is undecided, but the Clinton group believes she is an Obama supporter. The Clinton supporters nominated their own candidate, who they think leans toward Clinton.



http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jld3VILFDbEY6uciu_lp_YgBnGqwD90DFRU80




What if Hillary Clinton  wins the overall Popular vote of the people and Obama wins the  elites superdelegates votes?????

Those special superdelegates could make the voters unhappy if they move away from their choice....




:popcorn:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineLoam
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Re: The will of the people vs Obama’s elites. [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8353240 - 05/02/08 12:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Getting worked up over this is akin to getting worked up over the color of dildo that's about to be forcibly inserted into your rectum.

People taking this shit seriously are little beyond the troglodytes cheering for some steroid pumped homoerotic ballet champion of the WWE.


Edited by Loam (05/02/08 01:07 PM)


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: The will of the people vs Obama’s elites. [Re: Loam]
    #8353293 - 05/02/08 01:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Loam said:
Getting worked up over this is akin to getting worked up over the color of dildo that's about to be forcibly inserted into your rectum.







I just love obama supporters....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineLoam
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Re: The will of the people vs Obama’s elites. [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8353425 - 05/02/08 01:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:



I just love obama supporters....




I don't support anyone. The entire system is broken so that the only "choices" are between traitorous cretin A, B, or C. No one gets to that level of influence in this system without being totally compromised. That goes for the whole bloody lot of candidates.


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OfflineYossarian22
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Re: The will of the people vs Obama’s elites. [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8353451 - 05/02/08 01:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Obama is guaranteed to win both the pledged delegate count and the popular vote unless he start losing contests by margins of 25 points or greater, so I don't see what the point of this thread is. Yes, Obama's in a downswing, but considering the media lynching of the past few weeks, I'm not surprised. The media wants a good exciting fight to keep people watching, so of course they're gonna try to take down the front-runner. If they just admitted "Hey, Hillary lost", how would they get people to watch their commercials? Hopefully, the press will regain (some) of its objectivity in the general and will start actually raising questions about McCain.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: The will of the people vs Obama’s elites. [Re: Loam]
    #8354171 - 05/02/08 05:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Loam said:

I don't support anyone. The entire system is broken That goes for the whole bloody lot of candidates.





If you don't vote and think the entire system is broken why are you posting in a political debate forum?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: The will of the people vs Obama’s elites. [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8354195 - 05/02/08 05:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
Obama is guaranteed to win both the pledged delegate count and the popular vote unless he start losing contests by margins of 25 points or greater, so I don't see what the point of this thread is.

Hopefully, the press will regain (some) of its objectivity in the general and will start actually raising questions about McCain.




"Obama is guaranteed to win the popular vote"



Popular Vote Total

Obama 14,418,784

Clinton 13,917,318

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html



guaranteed......


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledanknugz81
spiralingdownward
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Registered: 02/22/08
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Re: The will of the people vs Obama’s elites. [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8354206 - 05/02/08 05:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

this article sounds like it was written by one of clinton's advisers.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: The will of the people vs Obama’s elites. [Re: danknugz81]
    #8354317 - 05/02/08 05:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

By STEVEN R. HURST

The Associated Press

:shrug:


SNL Spoofs Media Bias for Obama in CNN Debate Skit (Video)

http://guerillawomentn.blogspot.com/2008/02/snl-spoofs-media-bias-for-obama-in-cnn.html


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineYossarian22
Stranger
Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 415
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
Re: The will of the people vs Obama’s elites. [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8354593 - 05/02/08 07:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
Obama is guaranteed to win both the pledged delegate count and the popular vote unless he start losing contests by margins of 25 points or greater, so I don't see what the point of this thread is.

Hopefully, the press will regain (some) of its objectivity in the general and will start actually raising questions about McCain.




"Obama is guaranteed to win the popular vote"



Popular Vote Total

Obama 14,418,784

Clinton 13,917,318

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html



guaranteed......




Well, if you count the caucus states, the count is 14,752,868 to 14,141,180 with 9 contests to go, of which 7 are of small states. She needs to win 611, 689 votes more than Obama to get the majority. She will win West Virginia and Kentucky by fairly large margins, she'll probably win Puerto Rico and Indiana slightly, and Obama will win by heavy margins in Oregon, North Carolina, South Dakota, Guam and Nebraska(some of the smaller states are really unclear, but Obama has done really well in western purple states). So no, perhaps not guaranteed, but I'd be very surprised if she won by that metric.

And in any event, I don't see why the popular vote should matter. I mean, I understand its symbolic importance and I wouldn't begrudge a super delegate choosing a candidate for his or her vote by the popular vote, but it's not the way the system is set up. It's a war for delegates, and unless the supers reverse course and start voting for Hillary in droves, she's fucked.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: The will of the people vs Obama’s elites. [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8354873 - 05/02/08 08:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

lonestar, this article should be called "democratic party elites vs the people". This is the way its always been, and the people put up with a system allowing public funds to conduct non-binding advisory elections. The republicans, I'd bet, have the same setup, with only party rules requiring more of the delegates to vote for their pledge. It still isn't an enforceable law.


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