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OfflineAsanteA
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Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me...
    #834742 - 08/22/02 12:45 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

HPPD aka Hallucinogen Persisting Perceptual Disorder is a (not so) rare complication of doing Shrooms, Acid and so on. It's basically that you get the perceptual effects of hallucinogens for weeks, months or years without having imbided a Psychedelic. Now you allways think: that's not going to happen to me!

I thought so too, especially after 9 years and about 70 exposures to Shrooms etc.
Well: it did.

Some time now I thought I needed an eyedoctor. My vision was not what it's allways been, not quite the same. And about a week ago something happened that opened my eyes.

I was sitting behind my computer writing some stuff. Suddenly I smelled a strong and 100% real aftershave-odor. Now I only rarely use the stuff because of sensitive skin. Haven't seen it for months, actually.
But it was an 100% real aftershave odor, no doubt in my mind. I got up and sniffed it out. Ah, well...

I got my Yawara-stick and went trough my house looking for burglars or whatever. Nothing. Doors & windows closed, nobody there. So I sniffed it out further. The odor was strongest where I've been sitting and filled my livingroom etc, but not the bathroom where I keep such stuff nor dit it come from outside.

Ah, yeah, right: Odor hallucination. So would this be one of those flashbacks? Sat on my couch and stared at the carpet (works great on trips) to see if there was something going on. Indeed there was: Flowing, breathing, undulating, patterning... Very Shroomy and quite impressive since I haven't imbided for 3 months and then only 0.5gr of good shrooms.

Right, a flashback then: better enjoy the ride! My mind was very clear, just like it's always been, but still I was vividly hallucinating.
I monitored it. It has been a week now & it's been there all the time. I thought about those visual disturbances I have and the picture became complete: Colors a bit off, blurry contrasts between objects, sometimes having to blink a couple of times before being able to read something... HPPD.

It comes in waves: Most of the time it's (fortunately for me) almost unnoticable but sometimes it's quite convincing and the named visual disturbances show up wherever I look. I can summon it: make it more intense if i Will it but the other way around it's not so easy. Grass intensifies it temporarily. If I look at te static on TV (like in Poltergeist) I constantly see threedimensional objects rotating and moving all over the screen, WAY more than I ever saw. I can even think about, say, a spider and within a second I see a spider-pattern forming and moving around. TV static is about random, and all patterns you see inthere are the ones you lay into it.
Try it sometime, whilst Tripping or sober...
Bitten by the Shroom... Sheesh...

As HPPD goes I've got it quite good: I've read about and corresponded with several people who've got it WAY,WAY worse then I do. For me it's just a little poorer vision & if I look at a "hallucinogenic" surface like my carpet I see all the beautiful stuff that's there when I trip. Am I scared? Nope, it's quite interesting and only a slight hindrance. But what worries me is what the future will bring. You all will probably jump up and scream: DON'T EVER TRIP AGAIN!

Sorry: ain't gonna do that except when the visualstuff proves to be very longlasting or worsens over time. The Shroom has done alot of good for me over the years & I'm not going to just stop because of this. I will take a long break from imbiding to see if it'll blow over and take some to make up my mind about where to go from here. It may be over tomorrow or never go away. Proceeding with the Shroom may or may not make it worse or recur.
I'll just take a break and think hard. I don't feel "mauled" or "damaged" or stuff like that and fortunately it's at it's worst just a minor discomfort.

But think about it guys: one shroomtrip about every 2 months. The last years never more than half 1/8 of strong cubies, never anything wrong... And then THIS.

Is there anybody outthere who has things like this happen too? Same or severe?
What are your (HPPD or not) opinions on it? What would YOU do if the shoe was on the other foot? Any theories or info to share?
Thanx for reading this long one!


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Invisibledilatedcreature
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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: Asante]
    #834794 - 08/22/02 01:45 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I believe in HPPD I also think its extremely common for anyone who has done their share of psychedelic drugs........ Altho some people may not notice it......

Severe cases are probably pretty rare....... I myself have experienced EXTREME
reexperiencing of say a 30 mg smoked 5meodmt trip several times..... Anyone who has successfully smoked 30 mg of 5meodmt knows how intense that is.....

Well I was blasted away several times as IF I smoked 30 mg of 5meodmt several times and each time it wasn't any two minutes or subtle flashback...... It was a deep complete emersing in 5meodmt world for a full say 45 minutes.......

Note it was right after quitting 5meodmt use and over a course of several days...... So I do think it is possible that there might have still been 5meodmt in my body since I was using it frequently and had just stopped it wasn't like a year went by and I felt it...... Anyways its been 5 years since it happened and I haven't touched 5meodmt since....... I have used DPT a few times and think I possibly had some very minor visual flashbacks ie tracers everything looking kind of staticy ETC......

Also everyone 100 PERCENT I've met who have used their share of mushrooms or acid also 100 percent believes they have flashbacks so I think its pretty damn common.........


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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: dilatedcreature]
    #834829 - 08/22/02 03:07 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Wow .....Your attitude is excellent, I&#8217;m not so sure that I could take such a revelation so calmly. But then again you can&#8217;t undo the past and it&#8217;s good to hear that you have no regrets about your experiences with Mushrooms.
What is amazing is that what you describe about being able to draw on and intensify the visuals is totally like what I have experienced during an LSD experience more so that mushrooms. That has been my experience anyway. How long have you been certain about this and when was the last time you tripped?


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: dilatedcreature]
    #834832 - 08/22/02 03:11 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

You're lucky it didn't happen while you were driving.

Allthough I've never tried 5-MeO-DMT I've read up on it & if it was like 30mgs smoked it must've been extremely intense...
Was there a fearfactor involved (other than the usual, I mean)? A fullblown skyhigh trip emerging out of nowhere... tends to frighten people.

Did you feel "betrayed" by the drug or your brain? I read that alot...
I believe these were flashbacks, generally ranging in duration from a split-second to several hours. I had mine, in retrospect, but luckily never as intense and always on convenient times, not behind the wheel or such but mostly when toking up.

I'm positively in this mild HPPD state for a week, but it may be for months now. Several strange things have happened in those months (like Psychedelic-feeling strong vertigo) that might have been peaks of the named state.

As I said, it's really not a biggie for me at this point. Not afraid, not confused or desori?ntated & not too much sensory scramble. If the aftershavething didn't happen I would still probably be unaware of it. Still: since I discovered I had it it never has been away.

To anybody who'se had much experience like us: What do TV static and "hallucinogenic surfaces" do to you? Do you get visual FX? Go stare for some time & report! I really think mild HPPD is quite common too. Often I've read here on the Shroomery Forums things like: "I can make visuals appear whenever I want it" and the Psychedelic Experience FAQ mentions that your regular CEV (read it!) world often changes permanently, which may be ultra-light HPPD.

But: it's very mild & controllable for me. There are people way worse off than me, as seen on for instance http://www.stormloader.com/hppd/ which every serious tripper should check out before "turning on" GF's and such.
Some have been tripping balls 24/7 since the Summer of Love & these you won't find on the Internet, I guess. Take care of your brains, people!




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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: Ripple]
    #834839 - 08/22/02 03:21 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Being able to intensify visuals is quite common, for HPPD it's even in the DSM IV definition of Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder. (On Erowid, I believe)
I had it many times whilst tripping that I could DOUBLE the visual intensity by merely Willing it.

Once I scared the living daylights out of a fellow tripper by intensifying his trip greatly through hypnotic suggestion. You're highly suggestible on Shrooms...

Last time I tripped? I believe 3 months or so ago and it was just 0.5gr of good & strong Cubies. I haven't used LSD yet in this millennium.

But 30mg of 5MeO coming out of the blue... I'd shit myself, I guess!


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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: Asante]
    #834947 - 08/22/02 05:24 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Since the first time I took mushrooms just about all textures and patterns move and breath slightly if I stare at them whenever I take ANY drug including caffeine. I don't mind.


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:heartpump:


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #835118 - 08/22/02 06:33 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Yup... Sounds similar...

Do you also get slight or not-so-slight visual thingies when not staring at named surfaces? Blurred vision, movement, colors a bit off etc.?
Indeed: caffeine makes it stronger, got that too, but nothing like good ole THC does.

With me the visuals in, say, my carpet, are quite spectacular and convincing. It's beautiful. Yes: just looked: even now. Mostly the generic abstract stuff but when it's stronger also the vinelike patterns I'm so fond of. I think you've got it to a lesser degree, but I really think It's the same thing we're talking about. If you don't take anything, is it completely gone then or...

But there is a psychological factor to it. I can intensify it and whenever I'm preoccupied with strong Psychedelic cues (like being on the Shroomery) it intensifies by itself. Just like a flashback, but then stretched out over a week, perhaps months already. One doesn't scan for visuals every day, at least not me.

Right now I'm in the WTF stage. Most HPPD happens on the first dose (like with you) or in the first year, but I started in '93 and only recently got this present from Lysergic Santa. If it stays like this or tapers off, I guess there's no problem, but what if it should intensify, say after yet another session?
I'll have to give Shrooming some more thought, now...

One of my slogans used to be (and still is) LSD FOREVER. Well, this wasn't quite what I had in mind. But if it stays like this, I guess it's no problem: they're beautiful visuals, love to see them, and they do not interfere too much with my vision or psyche. Sheesh.. I thought I was in the clear as HPPD was concerned...



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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: Asante]
    #835210 - 08/22/02 07:08 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

ive only done shrooms maybe 12-14 times and i experience the same sorts of things once in awhile while im sober...one time i could have sworn there was a bat flying around, things will breath sometimes, one time at school the end of my desk started melting, sometimes while in a car all of a sudden its almost as if were driving forwards but the side of the road, trees, ect. are going backwards...


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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: Asante]
    #835299 - 08/22/02 08:06 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I've had similar experiences - mainly, though, triggered by grass. Just last weekend, I ate some (which is a fairly potent thing in itself) and managed to pull off what I estimated to be a good level 1 shroom trip as a kicker. I considered it to be a 'bonus', though it wasn't what I had planned. Fun and games, eh?


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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: SoFarNorth]
    #835338 - 08/22/02 08:28 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Any thoughts on WHY this is happening? I thought HPPD was the mythical 'permatrip' but reading these posts I have to say "oh, yea, that." I have just assumed you can't put the cat back in the bag as it were... I have just assumed you are teaching the brain new ways to function. Even more so when you are using 5MEO or DMT as you already have 'em in your body... I don't know the physical mechanics of it, but it does seem like every time I have an experiance with a sacramental plant, something always comes back with me from hyperspace I have just accepeted these visuals and mental states as being something like a new way my brain is learining to interpret reality.


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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: Asante]
    #835451 - 08/22/02 09:39 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, I was pretty fearful and swore off drugs forever ! Possibly my worst experiences I've ever had in my life.....That bad..... Nope don't feel betrayed by either.


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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: Ripple]
    #835455 - 08/22/02 09:42 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

THe last time I tripped was maybe four days ago.........


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: dilatedcreature]
    #835595 - 08/22/02 11:16 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I did some webresearch to get more info on HPPD and Flashbacks in general.

What I found is that the main difference lies in the name of HPPD: Hallucinogen PERSISTING Perceptual Disorder.
When it occurs every once in a while it's a Flashback, if it's all the time (like I'm experiencing now) it's likely HPPD. Flashbacks generally last seconds to hours, while HPPD most often seems to last weeks to months...

Flashbacks can get quite intense, indeed. Had some, usually on the day or day after tripping. Fortunately for me I've got it mild, I've seen much worse reports.
I discovered it a week ago, believe to have it for months, but nontheless: I'm on a Level 1/2-1 Trip now for over a week!

I looked at my condition from a trippers point of view in the last few days. There's a slightly enhanced suggestibility to it, being more emotional... I think I'm damn lucky I'm a lowdose guy and haven't taken 1/8s (potent shroom) for quite some time. Perhaps it would be much stronger then. In the last few hours I decided acceptance would be best. You never know: maybe It's gone in a week or so, or perhaps a month. Up to now it isn't really tiring...

4 days ago... It must've been a monster of a scare! I can't blame you for swearing off Psychedelix. Perhaps you'll return to shrooming, perhaps not... Fullblown..

I used to be like "everybody should Shroom!" but lost that attitude years ago. Shrooms aren't all-good. I guess nothing is in this world...




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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: Asante]
    #835605 - 08/22/02 11:20 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

No I tripped on shrooms four days ago...... I haven't done any 5meodmt in five years and that particular event only happened three times luckily.......
I did stop using psychedelics for a couple years tho.........


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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: dilatedcreature]
    #836440 - 08/22/02 05:23 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Is that what they call it....HPPD. I have had the shit for ages, haven`t got it alot but definetly noticable at times. If i stare at a floor or wall i get the shroom sways. Sometimes my keyboard gets multicolored transparent stripes on. I just think it is cool and pass it off as normal now.
Peace.


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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: shroom666]
    #836700 - 08/22/02 07:18 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

If it?s not too intense to interfere with your life I would call it a gift. Maybe im missing some horrible sides of it but having constant hallucinations with a clear head would be a gift from god for me. I would spend all my time meditating and enjoying it. Perceiving things through a different "eye" constantly would be awesome.

If it continues maybe you should see a doctor (modern witch). They might prescribe you some Thorazine or something else to calm it.

Enjoy it; if it persists go to a witch.... err doctor...
Fd


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno [Re: Asante]
    #836773 - 08/22/02 07:47 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)



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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: Fd3000]
    #837150 - 08/23/02 12:22 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Thanx for the sharing, guys!

Thorazine would be bad. From what I've read it's pretty nasty stuff, so nasty in fact that it isn't used anymore here in Holland exept to enhance Morphine's FX in the terminally ill.

Well... Another day in Lysergia. The carpet still shows me everything, the TV static's more interesting than the channels that are tuned in... It's milder now, but I guess I'm inbetween waves.

Hallucinating with a clear head... Well : the head ain't exactly clear, a little suggestible, a trippy feeling.. The visual part's a gift, though. I wouldn't mind this lasting a couple of weeks or so but I guess I ain't prepared for the prospect of a several-month to several-year trip.

A doctor? Nah... My GP knows I'm a Tripper & is generally a cool guy, but I got it figured out (the diagnosis) and I really don't want to go on daily Pharms to mellow it out. If it will persist I might do a Healing Ritual, but it's quite bearable up until now and daily Pharms, even Benzo's as an anti-psychedelic... I guess it's not my way.

Yup, already knew there's flashbacks and HPPD all over the Shroomery, read some epileptic seizure stories too. I used to be very gung-ho in that I really believed the whole world should Psychedelisize, but I agree with Dr. Sidney Cohen who said way back in the '60:

SOME PEOPLE SHOULD NEVER TAKE A MINDSTIRRER LIKE LSD

I guess that holds true for Shrooms too. But I am glad I made the Shrooming decision: It has greatly enhanced both insight and the quality of life for me.
But now this... Well: I'll see how it'll work out. I still stick with my sig, tho.
More contributions, anyone?



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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: ]
    #837155 - 08/23/02 12:27 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Oh, BTW Newt:

Those small yet intense dots of colored light are called "phosphene discharges". Had a few of them too. It's when one of the rods & cones in your eye decides to transmit it's signal despite not being triggered by light.
Fairly common for trippers & alot of nontrippers have it too.
Quite harmless, so I've read...



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Re: Mild HPPD: The Shroom has bitten me... [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #837190 - 08/23/02 01:20 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

After 100+ acid trips i can say that nothing gives you HPPD like LSD. It fades with time whereas even after not tripping on mushrooms for three monthes, if i want to make the lamp or the carpet move and gyrate i just have to stare the right way... Time heals all...


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