|
johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
|
show evidence that the guantanamo detainees are subject to the geneva convention.
It's not that you can't detain US citizens, its that the constitution applies to US citizens anywhere in the world, thus they always have habeas corpus rights.
And its not that foreign people don't have rights, they do, but the us constitution doesn't apply to them when they're outside the united states, however; guantanamo is the united states for practical purposes.
Those people commiting acts of war have been able to be tried as war criminals in tribunals for a while now, maybe forever. This isn't a criminal proceeding, I believe, so many of the rights aren't granted to these defendants. The theory is the president has authority over enemies of the country as part of his duties, and congress may provide a mechanism for these folks to be tried.
As for what I believe, I think this is bunk. THe constitution applies to the US government wherever, unless it is self limiting in parts. A military tribunal seems clearly to be a criminal prosecution.
|
DimensionX
King of Birds
Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 5,486
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
|
Re: FEMA camps [Re: johnm214]
#8340747 - 04/29/08 02:20 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Guantanamo detainees are not subject to the Geneva convention since the military commisions act of 2006. The act states that the Geneva convention does not apply to any enemy combatants, as to if an American citizen can be labeled an enemy combatant is up for debate. The fact that its up for debate means its possible. Only 10 detainees have been charged in six years. Most of the people in Guantanamo are only accused of associating with terrosits, so there status as enemy combatants is debatable, yet they are still not being given the protection of the geneva convention. And even in world war 2 prisoners of war were subject to the Geneva convention, so this is a precedent.
|
Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 10 days
|
|
In World War II the combatants were members of a uniformed army of a soveriegn and recognized state.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
|
DimensionX
King of Birds
Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 5,486
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
|
|
That doesn't really change anything. If you declare war on someone and take them prisoner, the Geneva convention is meant to apply.
|
johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
|
no its not, read it
it stipulates to whom and when it applies.
Madtown's citation is one of the requisite facts, uniforms in most cases are required to be a prisoner of war
|
Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 10 days
|
Re: FEMA camps [Re: johnm214]
#8340786 - 04/29/08 02:36 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Nice to see someone else holding down the rational side of the Politics Forum Night Crew.
Don't you have anything better to do that discuss international law at this time of day?
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
|
johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
|
not really, can't get to sleep, need another job, school sux, usual stuff in my life
I think the geneva convention, or the US, should provide more rights statutorily to the guantanamo detainees, but whatever, they don't. The problem is I'm not at all confident the majority of those folks are propoerly accused, but I guess if Bush shared his top secret intel we'd all be nuked tomorrow.
|
Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 10 days
|
Re: FEMA camps [Re: johnm214]
#8340815 - 04/29/08 02:47 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I'm personally against holding those people there like that. Now, I don't for a second believe they're innocent. At all.
You don't "accidentally" get picked up on an Afghani battlefield w/ an AK in your hand. It's pretty hard to talk your way out of that.
But if they are criminals, if they are terrorists, then lets try the fuckers. And not some secret tribunal, but a real fucking trial. Bush will never convince me that there is some great security risk in this. Most of these people were captured in operations that took place years and years ago in places where there isn't even much fighting going on, and if there is the scope of it is dramatically different.
But while I don't agree with the way he is doing things, I think he's certainly w/in his rights to do it. I think most of those people are guilty, but I'd like to see it proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
|
DimensionX
King of Birds
Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 5,486
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
|
Re: FEMA camps [Re: johnm214]
#8340822 - 04/29/08 02:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
This is debatable, here is another opinion.
Pictet's Commentary states: "In short, all the particular cases we have just been considering confirm a general principle which is embodied in all four Geneva Conventions of 1949. Every person in enemy hands must have some status under international law; he is either a prisoner of war, and as such covered by the Third Convention, a civilian covered by the Fourth Convention, or again, a member of the medical personnel of the armed forces who is covered by the First Convention, There is no intermediate status; nobody in enemy hands can be outside the law." Pictet, Commentary to the Fourth Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Person in Time of War (GC IV),
|
Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 10 days
|
|
Forum Rules - Provide a link to anything that is not your own thoughts.
Link, Plz.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
|
DimensionX
King of Birds
Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 5,486
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
|
|
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/COM/380-600007?OpenDocument
You can find this qoute at the end of:
PARAGRAPH 4. -- PERSONS PROTECTED BY OTHER CONVENTIONS
|
whattheheck
Chief Love Lover
Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
|
|
Quote:
Madtowntripper said: Forum Rules - Provide a link to anything that is not your own thoughts.
Link, Plz.
Thanks for the heads up.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: FEMA camps [Re: Chemy]
#8340997 - 04/29/08 05:33 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Chemy said: An aquaintance of mine is installing mind contol broadcasting units all across Florida, the new ones are more powerful and can penetrate tinfoil.
does your friend work for Dish Network, DirecTV or the Cable Company, I'd like a value comparison on mind control devices
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: FEMA camps [Re: johnm214]
#8341000 - 04/29/08 05:36 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
johnm214 said: uniforms in most cases are required to be a prisoner of war
looks like they wear uniforms now
|
Chemy
Jesus is Lord
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Chemy said: An aquaintance of mine is installing mind contol broadcasting units all across Florida, the new ones are more powerful and can penetrate tinfoil.
does your friend work for Dish Network, DirecTV or the Cable Company, I'd like a value comparison on mind control devices
Good one, there is some truth there.
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
|
|