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bugabuga420
bUgAbUgaBOO


Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 488
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Quote:
ScavengerType said: It's been going on for awhile first there was the spike in gold prices because of poor performance of the American economy and fears of a recession.
wrong, gold prices are the result of a inflated money supply also we are in a recession. period. this is caused by the boom and bust business cycle that results from central economy planning of interest rates. arbitrarily low interest rates bring mal-investment. mal-investment creates bubbles in the economy. dot-com nasdaq bubble now the housing bubble. different names but the results of the same flawed monetary policy.
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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How are you suggesting that those programs equate to liberal policy? You must be applying an even looser definition to liberal than I was to conservative.
Anyway I just came here to point out I was at my GF's grandma's watching the 5:00 CTV news and a story came on the news about the grain prices and grain rationing. Apparently not only are individuals trying to stalk up on grain in Canada and the US but businesses are doing it as well. This is likely what your local pizza shop is doing that's jacking up the price. Just like I told you it's a consumer driven shortage and I called it before the media. In fact I actually predicted this would happen a couple of days ago when the international news media was discussing the food shortage. Mark my words the price will recede in a couple months (depending on how businesses manage their stockpiled inventory and actual supply/demand).
Edit: BTW gold's popularity is because of lack of faith in the US dollar correct? The USD value is directly correlated to the performance of the US economy, as well as some external factors (that are mere contributing factors at best). So therefore the new found popularity of gold as a stable currency because of negative fluctuations in the US currency value is directly connected to it's root cause: Poor performance of the US market and subsequent decrease in domestic lending.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
Edited by ScavengerType (04/25/08 12:27 AM)
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LoWgRoW
Strange



Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 296
Last seen: 7 years, 7 days
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Funny how other threads get moved or locked quickly when remotely off topic. This thread shouldn't even have been started in "Cultivation"
my $.02, liberal or neocon the only differences is there uniform. They are both full of BS.
-------------------- Avoid negative people.
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thedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
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Quote:
Apparently not only are individuals trying to stalk up on grain in Canada and the US but businesses are doing it as well. This is likely what your local pizza shop is doing that's jacking up the price. Just like I told you it's a consumer driven shortage and I called it before the media. In fact I actually predicted this would happen a couple of days ago
This is a reaction to, and not a cause of the rise in price and decline in supply. Problems with shortages in supply began around the start of the year, while big suppliers like CostCo only started this rationing a few days ago. If you think that my local pizza shop is driving up the prices of grains and not the two billion people in China and India, go ahead. You're wrong, but go ahead.
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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
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JaComet
Old Hand

Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 347
Loc: Out Yonder
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Re: US Rye Shortage [Re: LoWgRoW]
#8326052 - 04/25/08 05:51 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
LoWgRoW said: Funny how other threads get moved or locked quickly when remotely off topic. This thread shouldn't even have been started in "Cultivation"
Jeezle Beezle !! Sorry I mentioned . . . . Just a little "Heads Up". Didn't intend to start a big discussion .
Crimmmineee . . . .
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bugabuga420
bUgAbUgaBOO


Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 488
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: US Rye Shortage [Re: thedefone]
#8326054 - 04/25/08 05:52 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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some of you guys are really misinformed on the monetary policy in this country and that is the subject of a different thread for a different forum thats all i can say but what do you expect when the only economics they teach in public schools and most universities is keynesian.
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: US Rye Shortage [Re: thedefone]
#8327592 - 04/25/08 04:29 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
thedefone said:
Quote:
Apparently not only are individuals trying to stalk up on grain in Canada and the US but businesses are doing it as well. This is likely what your local pizza shop is doing that's jacking up the price. Just like I told you it's a consumer driven shortage and I called it before the media. In fact I actually predicted this would happen a couple of days ago
This is a reaction to, and not a cause of the rise in price and decline in supply. Problems with shortages in supply began around the start of the year, while big suppliers like CostCo only started this rationing a few days ago. If you think that my local pizza shop is driving up the prices of grains and not the two billion people in China and India, go ahead. You're wrong, but go ahead.
No the rise in price is a reaction to stalking up, a reaction to the news headlines regarding food supply, those headlines a reaction to impoverished nations having food supply problems, those food supply problems originated from three different root causes; Increased demand from China/India, Use of staple crops as Biofuel, and IMF SAPs that eroded much of the third world's independence of food supply. If you don't understand why food prices will go down as stalking up decreases and rationing becomes unnecessary, you do have a fundamental problem understanding the forces at work here. Mainly the fact that if we never heard of the food shortages (an impossible scenario) we would not have price increases right now.
If you do move this thread it belongs in political discussion not OTD and that's all I've got to say about that.
buggabugga420: what do you think should inform economic policy of our days neo-liberal/neo-conservatives? Give me a break we are probibly looking at a new paradigm in economic policy breaking in the next half a decade anyway based on integrating environmentalism/globalization localization/resource management and debt/budget balancing through capital cycling.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
Edited by ScavengerType (04/25/08 04:39 PM)
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thedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
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Quote:
No the rise in price is a reaction to stalking up, a reaction to the news headlines regarding food supply, those headlines a reaction to impoverished nations having food supply problems, those food supply problems originated from three different root causes; Increased demand from China/India, Use of staple crops as Biofuel, and IMF SAPs that eroded much of the third world's independence of food supply.
You're right on all those points (which I made in previous posts, by the way) except your assertion that individual stockpiling is involved, which, and I'll say it again, isn't affecting food prices! I'm not saying that increased demand in N. America wouldn't raise prices, I'm saying that that increased demand in N. America is either A) not there, or B) not sufficient to raise prices like has occurred. Link, please? Any hand America has in these problems is supply related and limited almost exclusively to corn-based ethanol, and all the problems that that entails. Rice prices are not rising due to N. American stockpiling. Other than that, I think we're on the same page here.
Quote:
If you don't understand why food prices will go down as stalking up decreases and rationing becomes unnecessary, you do have a fundamental problem understanding the forces at work here. Mainly the fact that if we never heard of the food shortages (an impossible scenario) we would not have price increases right now.
I understand supply and demand. Thanks. Stockpiling has to be occurring in such a way as to actually be a driving force in price increases before it's decline can actually lower food prices. And, just because you haven't heard of it, doesn't mean it's not happening. You should know the American media well enough to know that they are way too preoccupied with themselves to put out relevant news. Food supply problems and associated price changes were going on way before the mainstream media got the message out to the masses.
On another note, it is kind of amazing that this has gone on so long in here without getting shut down. Especially when any strain based thread gets smoked in like 30 seconds. Move it, don't lock it.
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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
Edited by thedefone (04/27/08 10:27 AM)
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: US Rye Shortage [Re: thedefone]
#8334892 - 04/27/08 05:40 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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heh yea true bout it not being moved.
Anyway the fundamental difference between our two arguments is that I am saying supply would still exceed demand and this sort of situation would not be occurring if stockpiling were not occurring. You seem to claim I did not make the argument that businesses such as restaurants would stock up on grains and grain products. This is what is driving the raise in prices right now, but when this issue becomes less volatile these businesses will deplete those reserves and this will decrease the demand temporarily.
Think of it like this, if the stores were not rationing their alternative approach to managing the temporary demand that exceeds supply caused by the stockpiling would be to increase the price of the commodity so that people would no longer wish to purchase it at that price. However it looks like they have predicted this would cause more panic (driving the cost and demand up further) and would look unfair to their customers afterward.
I never argued stockpiling was the root cause just that it was the immediate cause of the situation.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Wow, a whole lot of ethanol bashing here!
There hasn't been a conservative administration since Regan, all we have today is the radical right. And it's going to take a damn long time, if we are even able, to dig ourselves out of the hole our current administration has put us in.
Anyhow, ethanol is a up and coming technology. It's never going to come of age if money isn't put into it. Using biomass for our energy needs is a good plan for the future. Cellulistic ethanol has the potential to solve our energy crisis. Hydrogen is a pipedream unless the laws of physics magically change in the near future.
As far as the drawbacks, they will be solved in due time. A process is just coming out of the pipeline that involves harvesting the corn for food and using the stover (stalks) to produce ethanol. After being fermented and used the stover can then still be fed to animals or tilled back into the soil.
In figuring numbers for ethanol you also have to look at the CO2 removed during the growing process and the fact that it isn't re-released when it decomposes. Ethanol mileage is only 25-35% lower than gas, it's not half as stated above. Eventually only bio-waste will be used in the process and the EtOH concentration produced will get a lot higher, lowering the distillation costs. But none of that is going to happen anytime soon if some money isn't dumped into it.
-FF
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bugabuga420
bUgAbUgaBOO


Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 488
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: US Rye Shortage [Re: fastfred]
#8336806 - 04/28/08 07:09 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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ethanol isnt the problem , its corn based ethanol that is. just look at brazil they are doing really cool things with sugar cane ethanol, of course the US put tariffs on it though to give our inefficient corn based ethanol the upper hand, im pretty sure ethanol from hemp stalk is the best bet tho!
hemp ftw!
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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what's the energy return on hemp oil like?
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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bugabuga420
bUgAbUgaBOO


Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 488
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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using hemp oilseed for biodiesel isnt that efficient, on the other hand using hemp cellulose for ethanol is really efficient. hemp bast is roughly 70% cellulose compared to 30 % for corn. hemp bast also only has 4% lignin and corn has 11%. lignin has long been viewed as problem in the process of fiber.
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