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OrgoneConclusion
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Always coming soon, but never here and now
#8318593 - 04/23/08 12:26 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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The aliens will reveal themselves - soon.
The world will end - soon.
The Messiah will be returning - soon.
The New Age of Spiriutal enlightenment is almost here.
A Free Energy breakthrough is just around the corner.
The Fountain of Youth is about to be announced.
And don't get me started on 2012...
In my lifetime I have heard a zillion magical claims. Doesn't matter how many times they fall flat, the claims just keep on truckin'. (just check M&P on any given day.)
When the fuck will I actually get to witness one?
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#8318663 - 04/23/08 12:47 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Who's to say these didn't already happen? o_O
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: deCypher]
#8318733 - 04/23/08 01:09 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I say.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Icelander]
#8318774 - 04/23/08 01:25 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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--------------------
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#8319186 - 04/23/08 03:02 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
When the fuck will I actually get to witness one?
We are witnessing the miraculous unfolding of the impossible in to the actual, right now.
We just can't see the forest for the trees sometimes.
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8319278 - 04/23/08 03:21 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Dude, it's only a matter of time before cyber-Hitler's reptilian saucer-armies emerge from the Stygian depths to usher in an era of peace, love, and freedom from the Jewish vermin!
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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TheCow
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8319305 - 04/23/08 03:26 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Middleman said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
When the fuck will I actually get to witness one?
We are witnessing the miraculous unfolding of the impossible in to the actual, right now.
We just can't see the forest for the trees sometimes.
Yea man! Dont you get it? Its the impossible in to the actual, and its right fucking NOW! SHIT nigga, amazing! Alert the crew men, this earth is goin to funky town, shit is gonna be all wild, hell yea, its happening right now! Its just invisible, also you cant feel it, notice it, or interact in anyway with this amazing shit! But its real, oh yes, it is real
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8319343 - 04/23/08 03:36 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Middleman said: We are witnessing the miraculous unfolding of the impossible in to the actual, right now.
We just can't see the forest for the trees sometimes.
QFT
-------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8319350 - 04/23/08 03:37 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Middleman said:
We are witnessing the miraculous unfolding of the impossible in to the actual, right now.
We just can't see the forest for the trees sometimes.
Would you mind giving ONE example of the IMpossible becoming ACTual?
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8319486 - 04/23/08 04:10 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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History is just one accomplishment of the impossible after another. In these times, WE CAN FUCKING FLY.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Rose
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Flying has been possible on Earth ever since atmospheric conditions allowed for it.
Animals started flying LONG before humans walked.
Since the dawn of humanity, flying was possible...
It just wasn't accomplished by humans until the last 250 years... first we flew baloons... then airplaines. And it only happened BECAUSE it was possible.
Space travel? ALSO possible.
I am looking for an example of something IMPOSSIBLE becoming actual.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8320036 - 04/23/08 06:04 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I am looking for an example of something IMPOSSIBLE becoming actual.
Like a leader being elected who actually cared about the welfare of the people?
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#8320090 - 04/23/08 06:15 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah... something impossible.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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mycould
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8320201 - 04/23/08 06:40 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
Quote:
Middleman said:
We are witnessing the miraculous unfolding of the impossible in to the actual, right now.
We just can't see the forest for the trees sometimes.
Would you mind giving ONE example of the IMpossible becoming ACTual?
One example? How about the computer your using to access this website? How about the car you probably drive, fuck, the house you live in with your internet, cable, running water, air conditioning. At one point in time all of these things were deemed impossible, and im sure there was some whiny bitch like orgone complaining about it not happening while he was alive. There is no time but the here and now and with each moment brings an infinite number of possibilities. I cant prove that im right, but you cant prove that im wrong.
-------------------- Whether you believe you can or believe you cant, either way you're probably right.
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TheCow
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: mycould]
#8320223 - 04/23/08 06:45 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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none of those things were ever impossible, how egotistical you are. Humans mMaed theze things teh possiblez! Yea...
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: mycould]
#8320252 - 04/23/08 06:52 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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They were possible BEFORE they were made... otherwise they wouldn't exist.
Try again...
Show me the IMpossible becoming ACTual.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8320380 - 04/23/08 07:14 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Nothing is impossible.
-------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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mycould
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: TheCow]
#8320423 - 04/23/08 07:21 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheCow said: none of those things were ever impossible, how egotistical you are. Humans mMaed theze things teh possiblez! Yea...
Are you being serious? So if a bunch of cavemen are sitting around and one says hey i bet one day we'll come up with these little boxes that let us connect with everyone else in the world that has this little box. You dont think at that point in time that was considered impossible?? At one point sailing around the world was considered impossible b/c everyone thought the world was flat. And humans made that possible and it changed how everybody thought. How can you know that someday people wont be having discussions about the things they know or do, that we thought was impossible. NOBODY knows what we will eventually be able to figure out, could be nothing at all, could be everything. Fact remains that i cant prove whats right, and you cant prove what is wrong.
-------------------- Whether you believe you can or believe you cant, either way you're probably right.
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TheCow
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: mycould]
#8320512 - 04/23/08 07:35 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mycould said: considered impossible
Edited by TheCow (04/23/08 07:36 PM)
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mycould
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8320521 - 04/23/08 07:35 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: They were possible BEFORE they were made... otherwise they wouldn't exist.
Try again...
Show me the IMpossible becoming ACTual.
Ok, you can use that argument for any example i give you. Obviously they wouldnt exist unless it were possible for it to exist. What im saying is that before anyone had the mental capacity to split the atom that was considered impossible. Before we got evolved enough as a species, cloning a sheep was considered impossible. Going to the moon was considered impossible. None of these things seem impossible now b/c we already did these things. Humans going to the moon and humans figuring out a way to move things with their minds both start from the same spot... an idea.
-------------------- Whether you believe you can or believe you cant, either way you're probably right.
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mycould
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: TheCow]
#8320576 - 04/23/08 07:49 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheCow said:
Quote:
mycould said: considered impossible
things that ARE impossible eh? Please tell me something that you can prove IS impossible
-------------------- Whether you believe you can or believe you cant, either way you're probably right.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: mycould]
#8320605 - 04/23/08 07:54 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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A ≠ A is impossible, always was impossible, and always will be impossible.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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mycould
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: deCypher]
#8320783 - 04/23/08 08:37 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Cypher said: A ≠ A is impossible, always was impossible, and always will be impossible.
To our past and current understanding of A, yes it was and currently is impossible for A to not equal A. But how can you prove that we wont have some sort of growth in comprehension of A that would allow A to not equal A?
-------------------- Whether you believe you can or believe you cant, either way you're probably right.
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deCypher
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: mycould]
#8320854 - 04/23/08 08:51 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mycould said: some sort of growth in comprehension of A
Niiice terminology. That just reminded me of that quote by Bill Clinton... "it depends upon what the definition of the word 'is,' is."
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Ginseng1]
#8320929 - 04/23/08 09:09 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ginseng1 said: Nothing is impossible.
This is one of those really dumb statements that we hear from time to time.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Noviseer
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8320930 - 04/23/08 09:09 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
Quote:
Middleman said:
We are witnessing the miraculous unfolding of the impossible in to the actual, right now.
We just can't see the forest for the trees sometimes.
Would you mind giving ONE example of the IMpossible becoming ACTual?
something from nothing, isn't that a miracle? Wahe Guru... from darkness came light. Just the fact that isness is...
yea you can't show something impossible becoming actual by virtue of semantics, but you also can't deny the astronomical unlikelihood of being, of breathing, of this all being here, of the richness of it all. Its all happening!
-------------------- _______________________________________________________________ namaste said: no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped _________________________________________________________________
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Icelander
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Noviseer]
#8320943 - 04/23/08 09:13 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Actually we don't know where the light came from. That's like saying from a dark room came light (but of course I flipped the lightswitch)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Icelander]
#8320962 - 04/23/08 09:17 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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When I go into a dark room all objects are bathed in the warm glow of my aura.
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Icelander
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#8320981 - 04/23/08 09:20 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes dora, right there on the flora. (courtasy FZ)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Noviseer
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Icelander]
#8320997 - 04/23/08 09:23 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Actually we don't know where the light came from.
it either sprung from nothing, or its always been here, either way there's your miracle.
-------------------- _______________________________________________________________ namaste said: no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped _________________________________________________________________
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mycould
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: deCypher]
#8321017 - 04/23/08 09:28 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hahaha yeah but my point is that there is no way to prove that things that seem obviously impossible right now will always be impossible. Especially considering that in relation to all of humanity we are barely into this quantum mechanics breakthrough. We're in the middle of a scientific revolution. How can you know what could and could not eventually be possible.
-------------------- Whether you believe you can or believe you cant, either way you're probably right.
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Icelander
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Noviseer]
#8321027 - 04/23/08 09:30 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Why is that a miracle? Saying everything is a miracle is the same as saying everything is mundane. It's a meaningless statement IMO.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Icelander]
#8321030 - 04/23/08 09:30 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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What about the fauna in the sauna?
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Noviseer]
#8321089 - 04/23/08 09:40 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noviseer said:
You also can't deny the astronomical unlikelihood of being, of breathing, of this all being here, of the richness of it all.
And you can't deny this fact: There is a HUGE difference between the meaning of the words "unlikely" and "IMPOSSIBLE".
Come on... somebody please name something impossible that became actuality.
Middleman said it is happening all the time now... MIDDLEMAN said it... so it must be true.
Can't someone provide an ACTual example?
Oh... and LIGHT must be possible since it already ACTually exists... still nice try.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Icelander
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8321103 - 04/23/08 09:44 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Do you see what it's like defending this place day after day.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Icelander]
#8321116 - 04/23/08 09:45 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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It is impossible.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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VisualLearner
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8321123 - 04/23/08 09:48 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quote: Ginseng1 said: Nothing is impossible.
This is one of those really dumb statements that we hear from time to time.
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Icelander
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8321128 - 04/23/08 09:49 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: It is impossible.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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mycould
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8321146 - 04/23/08 09:52 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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At this current period of existence that is an IMPOSSIBLE request.
-------------------- Whether you believe you can or believe you cant, either way you're probably right.
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Noviseer
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8321160 - 04/23/08 09:56 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: Come on... somebody please name something impossible that became actuality.
Middleman said it is happening all the time now... MIDDLEMAN said it... so it must be true.
Can't someone provide an ACTual example?
Oh... and LIGHT must be possible since it already ACTually exists... still nice try.
did you read my post?
Quote:
Noviseer said: yea you can't show something impossible becoming actual by virtue of semantics
You're arguing something that's self evident, impossible "means" impossible, sure, but that's not gonna get us anywhere. And anyway its a side-issue, that's not what middleman meant.
And sure, you can look at the world as a miracle, or as a mundane occurrence, but that's the point! I choose to see all existence as a miracle, or at least I try, because it makes my life richer and better. Maybe I'm not getting any closer to the "truth" but I don't care, what's the truth anyway?
-------------------- _______________________________________________________________ namaste said: no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped _________________________________________________________________
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Icelander
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Noviseer]
#8321169 - 04/23/08 09:59 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Maybe I'm not getting any closer to the "truth" but I don't care, what's the truth anyway?
Thank you for stating the obvious (to some of us at least)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: mycould]
#8321171 - 04/23/08 10:00 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mycould said: At this current period of existence that is an IMPOSSIBLE request.
Not according to Middleman.
Quote:
Middleman said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
When the fuck will I actually get to witness one?
We are witnessing the miraculous unfolding of the impossible in to the actual, right now.
We just can't see the forest for the trees sometimes.
I'm just looking for examples... since he accused someone of "missing the forest for the trees".
I think I'm jealous... 'cause I see neither a forest nor trees.
But I do smell bullshit.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Noviseer]
#8321211 - 04/23/08 10:07 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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You should know by now that the, "I make my own definitions for words" argument doesn't work around here.
Semantics ARE God.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8321213 - 04/23/08 10:08 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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--------------------
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Noviseer
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Icelander]
#8321236 - 04/23/08 10:13 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: You should know by now that the, "I make my own definitions for words" argument doesn't work around here.
Semantics ARE God.
ah so that's the game...
-------------------- _______________________________________________________________ namaste said: no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped _________________________________________________________________
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Icelander
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Noviseer]
#8321284 - 04/23/08 10:19 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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It helps us communicate.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Noviseer]
#8321293 - 04/23/08 10:21 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noviseer said:
ah so that's the game...
If proper communication is a game, then yes.
'Cause we're in a FORUM... you know... a place where people COMMUNICATE, SHARE and DEBATE IDEAS.
Communication IS the game and it would be nice if you would play along.
The person who refuses to use words properly on a forum... more often than not... fails to make their point.
Try using the improper words in the Cultivation forum... see how far you get.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Noviseer
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8321368 - 04/23/08 10:35 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Middleman said: We are witnessing the miraculous unfolding of the impossible in to the actual, right now.
We just can't see the forest for the trees sometimes.
See Middleman was trying to communicate a sentiment--a poetic idea.
And instead of responding to the heart of the notion, you pointed out that, pursuant to the rules of logic, something impossible cannot become actual. But you know very well that's not what he meant. You contradicted him but avoided substance of the statement. Rather than playing a word game, why not put in your two cents, tell us why this world isn't a miraculous unfolding after all?
-------------------- _______________________________________________________________ namaste said: no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped _________________________________________________________________
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allisthesame
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: TheCow]
#8321675 - 04/24/08 12:13 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheCow said:
Quote:
Middleman said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
When the fuck will I actually get to witness one?
We are witnessing the miraculous unfolding of the impossible in to the actual, right now.
We just can't see the forest for the trees sometimes.
Yea man! Dont you get it? Its the impossible in to the actual, and its right fucking NOW! SHIT nigga, amazing! Alert the crew men, this earth is goin to funky town, shit is gonna be all wild, hell yea, its happening right now! Its just invisible, also you cant feel it, notice it, or interact in anyway with this amazing shit! But its real, oh yes, it is real
Funniest post
Quote:
Noviseer said:
Quote:
Middleman said: We are witnessing the miraculous unfolding of the impossible in to the actual, right now.
We just can't see the forest for the trees sometimes.
See Middleman was trying to communicate a sentiment--a poetic idea.
And instead of responding to the heart of the notion, you pointed out that, pursuant to the rules of logic, something impossible cannot become actual. But you know very well that's not what he meant. You contradicted him but avoided substance of the statement. Rather than playing a word game, why not put in your two cents, tell us why this world isn't a miraculous unfolding after all?
Quoted for truth and everyone else has got heads in ass I don't care fuck it's whack... it's not the debate forum it's the Philosophy and Spirituality forum... fucking know it alls... It's not a game... it is a big stupid fallacy to whoever it is you were arguing with posters and yeah whatever... Equivocations leads to double standards and miscommunication so you all fail.
-------------------- Guess what?; You... A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Noviseer]
#8321796 - 04/24/08 01:08 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noviseer said: Rather than playing a word game, why not put in your two cents, tell us why this world isn't a miraculous unfolding after all?
You keep dodging my questions... while speaking utter nonsense.
Consider that... then ask yourself:
Why the hell would I answer YOUR question?
Yeah Novi... teach me about spirituality and how the world works...
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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allisthesame
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8321800 - 04/24/08 01:13 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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No, why don't you? Ugh... Read my post cause it's directed to people like you. I'm going to get banned again because I can barely withhold my anger.
Ugh... WHY DON'T YOU? No? THEN SHHHHHHHHH
-------------------- Guess what?; You... A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: allisthesame]
#8321812 - 04/24/08 01:22 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I wasn't talking to you.
And I can hardly make sense of your posts.
I actually understand what Noviseer is TRYING to say... but I have no idea what you are talking about.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8321840 - 04/24/08 01:42 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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One's spiritual smugness is directly proportional to one's ease in getting angry.
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allisthesame
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8321883 - 04/24/08 02:11 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: I wasn't talking to you.
And I can hardly make sense of your posts.
I actually understand what Noviseer is TRYING to say... but I have no idea what you are talking about.
I am agreeing with him, of course. You are playing semantic games in some attempt to make your own understanding of what you are discussing and you simply can't let go of your views; so by arguing, like you are, you can't see past your own egotistical perspective on what is being portrayed. The man says poetry... you say hogwash? I am agreeing with him when he says you are in the pursuit of logic and creating fallacies to suit your logic, which sucks because said poetry was beyond you and you can't or won't see it. And it's upsetting... like this dude above me stated, in general, anger will be this and that and I'm sure it was directed in my general direction... so what I say to that? I don't know exactly, it wasn't directly directed at me.
-------------------- Guess what?; You... A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: allisthesame]
#8321909 - 04/24/08 02:35 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
which sucks because said poetry was beyond you and you can't or won't see it
Well, I stand corrected.
Shakespeare eat your heart out.
It is cute when people think I don't "Understand" this Americanized McDonalds version of the Jack-Buddhist, New-Age pseudo-spirituality they preach.
It is funny when they act like they are somehow above me. Is that ego-loss? How enlightening...
Keep the personalisms out of the argument.
Debate the thought, not the person.
Personal assumptions are not allowed in here.
Besides, if you had a leg to stand on... you'd still be arguing your CASE instead of assuming I am not capible of understanding something as simpile as quasi-Buddhism. You'd be making a LEGITIMATE POINT instead of creating new definitions for words.
Your actions and tactics betray your argument.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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allisthesame
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8321935 - 04/24/08 03:12 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Refer yourself to your signature. Wise words... How do you define action on a message boards anyway? Tactics I can understand but to know someone's actions on the internet is impossible.
quote "It is funny when they act like they are somehow above me. Is that ego-loss? How enlightening..."
and that isn't arguing with personalisms?
You seem to be connoting to something I'm not quite getting yourself, so care to enlighten me?
You like debating, it's clear... you're wrong though, about wether or not anyone is putting themselves above you or not. Ahhh... there is no point, you'll just point out some logical fallacy on my part and counter the point I'm trying to see through... it's useless with this quasi-intellectual - quasi-buddhism mish-mash going on in your posts. ACTually it's pretty fucking stupid, in my opinion...
-------------------- Guess what?; You... A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: allisthesame]
#8323198 - 04/24/08 01:48 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
allisthesame said:
quote "It is funny when they act like they are somehow above me. Is that ego-loss? How enlightening..."
and that isn't arguing with personalisms?
You draw a little blood, and I'll strike back. Believe me, I was gentle.
'Tis physics... every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
Hope you can take what you give... God knows I'll live.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: allisthesame]
#8323475 - 04/24/08 03:14 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
allisthesame said: Refer yourself to your signature. Wise words...
Thank you.
Quote:
How do you define action on a message boards anyway? Tactics I can understand but to know someone's actions on the internet is impossible.
In this sense... both words mean the same thing. Tactics are actions... so typing your thoughts in the manor you type them... that is an action.
Last night when you wrote about how you were SO ANGRY you couldn't contain yourself... THAT was an action. Or, if you prefer, THAT was a tactic.
Last night, when you accused me of knowing nothing about poetry... THAT was an action.
Last night, when you DENIED THE ACTUAL DEFINITIONS OF WORDS, because they didn't fit your needs, THAT was an action.
People use tactics or actions to get what they want.
The root of the word action is the same as in the word actual: ACT.
ACTion is what you DO...
ACTual is something that does what it DOES.
In this case, your ACTions were ACTually quite TELLing.
I'd love to play poker with you.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
Edited by Rose (04/24/08 03:25 PM)
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allisthesame
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8323903 - 04/24/08 05:14 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I know, I open like a book sometimes... my anger is like... I don't know, not always bad but is a very hilarious trait of mine. Sometimes it's unconventional but I can turn the tables pretty easy using my own connotations and shit... but I can at least admit when I am lying and telling the truth. Some can't in my experience...
But yeah, I didn't really mean that you didn't know about poetry but I was only saying that you seemingly didn't look at was being said as poetry to be poetry but as some form of debate... or at least that is what Noviseer was suggesting, so I backed him up cause I agreed with him. I hate it when people connote to something else and avoid the question at hand which we all do to different degrees. I think you were both doing it... sorry, but that is just what I saw.
And I know the actual definitions of words, and I never needed words to be denied from their meaning... I just used your words.
-------------------- Guess what?; You... A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: allisthesame]
#8323956 - 04/24/08 05:31 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
allisthesame said: I think you were both doing it... sorry, but that is just what I saw.
Yes, or to put it into Novi's terms... we were BOTH playing a game. I enjoy game playing... I enjoy my humanity. I play games. We all do.
But let's move on...
Look at the title of this thread. Then look at the first post. Then read the rest of the thread. (You have already done this I know... but I wanted to get back on topic. )
The question posed by the OP is actually quite interesting.
From the dawn of history, people have believed the end was near... or that transcendence was around the corner. Humans have always believed in mysterious creatures like dragons or aliens... but they have not yet been proven to ACTually exist.
Why is that?
Good question... but...
Time and time again, people come into threads like this with a poopy attitude and pretend they know more about things than they actually do. They claim that things exist... when there is no proof of their existence. This has nothing to do with the questions posed in the original post.
The simple solution to this problem is obvious.
The one thing theologians, conspiracy buffs, new agers and realists share in common... are WORDS.
As long as we ALL use words properly we can have great conversations... even if we disagree... and if that isn't why people post here... they should find a new fucking hobby.
When I see a thread like this, intentionally mis-interpreted by people who can't defend themselves with facts... I will call them out on it.
Novi has a point, but it is a point best made in another thread.
Middleman has a point... if he could back it up with examples.
And you'd have a point too, if you'd stop defending the side without any evidence.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8324304 - 04/24/08 07:16 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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If you see the paradox then you see my point, or lack of one depending upon your point of view.
Please bear in mind that this is a dual purpose forum. Philosophy is argument and Spirituality is simply shared.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8324347 - 04/24/08 07:28 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Middleman said: If you see the paradox then you see my point, or lack of one depending upon your point of view.
Yes, your post was a paradox.
Bully for you.
Why chime in if you are going to talk in a circle?
All hippies can talk in deep circles... and many other hippies will respod to such posts with an odd reverance... 'cause they too believe that we are all one... and bla bla bla...
How does this further this conversation?
You used an applause line in the middle of a thread, but it had nothing to do with anything.
I guess some people DO miss the forest for the trees.
Quote:
Please bear in mind that this is a dual purpose forum. Philosophy is argument and Spirituality is simply shared.
There you go again, re-defining words...
Check my posts on the meaning of the words Spirituality and Philosophy. Sounds like you might need a review.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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LunarEclipse
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#8324368 - 04/24/08 07:33 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
In my lifetime I have heard a zillion magical claims. Doesn't matter how many times they fall flat, the claims just keep on truckin'. (just check M&P on any given day.)
When the fuck will I actually get to witness one?
Never. Obviously.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8324387 - 04/24/08 07:37 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ok man, we'll all just pretend you're in charge of what can and cannot be posted in this forum.
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future
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#8324413 - 04/24/08 07:44 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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for the first time, maybe ever, we've been close to a miraculous breakthrough in something. Technology is absurd. The next big step HAS to be close.
-------------------- I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8324434 - 04/24/08 07:48 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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OK. Now say that in riddlese...
--------------------
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#8324442 - 04/24/08 07:50 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I would if I could... speak from the mouths of the countless others who are also, me.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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coulterIV
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8324454 - 04/24/08 07:54 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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are you tired of waiting for yourself to step up. whether or not we get to witness a mass ascension does not mean that each one of us cannot succeed, Will i ever reach the totality of myself? even now i witness the beauty of me and my perceptions of this world. Will i become aware of the other worlds that are present in this moment here for me to learn and eventually create other means to learn and advance.
for you see, liquid eternity pulses through my veins. all my wishes will come true.
-------------------- BREATHE IN LOVE BREATHE OUT FORGIVENESS (If you’re not in your breath, you’re in your mind)
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: coulterIV]
#8324487 - 04/24/08 08:01 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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See that's what I'm talking about, posts like this ^^^ are awesome, a little pointless prose should be welcomed in a 'Spirituality' forum.
Spirituality is the essence of paradox, it cannot be objectively defined, and it can only be apprehended by the irrational mind.
But that's just the most fitting description in my current world view, others may disagree and that's ok.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8324523 - 04/24/08 08:14 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes... that is all fine.
But that is not what this THREAD is about... and this thread is me... as it is in you... and that tree over there is also, this thread.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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coulterIV
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8324536 - 04/24/08 08:17 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: Yes... that is all fine.
But that is not what this THREAD is about... and this thread is me... as it is in you... and that tree over there is also, this thread.
well go out on a limb then, and climb the tree
-------------------- BREATHE IN LOVE BREATHE OUT FORGIVENESS (If you’re not in your breath, you’re in your mind)
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: coulterIV]
#8324542 - 04/24/08 08:19 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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You see it too?
Groovy.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8324633 - 04/24/08 08:38 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Fair enough.
The internet and 9/11 seemed impossible to me a long time ago, they weren't miraculous enough for you?
What if aliens landed tomorrow but didn't know anything about God or the origin of DNA?
Nothing 'paranormal' here folks? Just another humanoid? Still no such thing as 'Spirit'?
And what if they caught Bigfoot? "Just another earth creature? No big deal?
What if a suitcase nuke went off in a US major city, marshal law was declared and the internet shut down?
Just World War 3 right? Or 'nothing but' a rogue comet or 'merely' an active galactic nuclei. No 'prophecies' being literally fulfilled.
The miraculous isn't something that's seen, but how one sees...
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TheCow
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8324639 - 04/24/08 08:40 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yea man, thats exactly right. Its not whats actually goin on, its just what ever bullshit you want to attach to it! Preach on my nigga
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: TheCow]
#8324648 - 04/24/08 08:42 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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They are all real possibilities however remote. But yeah man laugh them away.
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TheCow
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8324670 - 04/24/08 08:48 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think you know I will. Im just waiting until 2012, I got the perfect post in mind. Its been several years incubating, oh itll be splendid
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: TheCow]
#8324751 - 04/24/08 09:08 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Unfortunately, the only ones to appreciate it will be the skeptics. The believers never wake up even when hit in the back of the head with a brick.
--------------------
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8324762 - 04/24/08 09:12 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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What if?
When if?
Thanks for making my point.
--------------------
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Icelander
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8324796 - 04/24/08 09:17 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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The other day I was talking to a young girl of 25 who was telling me what and important time this was in history. Now when I look at history 25 years ago it was considered a very important time then too. If this young woman was born today I'll bet my bank account that in twenty five years she would point out what a very important time in history that was.
Why?
Because it's her now and we all (almost) think the Universe revolves around our personal experience. You can extrapolate this to the original post and have your answer IMO.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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allisthesame
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Icelander]
#8325414 - 04/24/08 11:21 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Whatever... Breathe in love and breathe out forgiveness. I like that... see that is why come on these boards... but I don't see anyone trying to make a point on anything here... only countering someone elses. Like as if anyone were to post a new topic, one would have to scan it to spot any inconsistencies and warn the topic starter and others that said thread is not agreeable only disagreeable. Maybe I little bit of an overstatement but still, I literally see every idea, I like anyway, shot down. Because people are so opinionated here... cause of this knowledge and shit...
-------------------- Guess what?; You... A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8325561 - 04/25/08 12:24 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Middleman said: Fair enough.
The internet and 9/11 seemed impossible to me a long time ago, they weren't miraculous enough for you?
The internet has been around for my entire life... and I'm 32... although the only people who could access it until the mid 90's were military folk... scholars and programmers.
I had a front row seat for 9/11... I assure you it was no miracle.
Quote:
What if aliens landed tomorrow but didn't know anything about God or the origin of DNA?
Then, they'd be a lot like us.
Quote:
Nothing 'paranormal' here folks? Just another humanoid? Still no such thing as 'Spirit'?
SPIRITS EXIST.
They DO...
They just don't exist in the PHYSICAL REALM.
Thoughts are SPIRITUAL. But thoughts exist... right?
Quote:
And what if they caught Bigfoot? "Just another earth creature? No big deal?
*An elusive Earth creature... with big feet.
Quote:
What if a suitcase nuke went off in a US major city, marshal law was declared and the internet shut down?
I dunno... what if?
Quote:
The miraculous isn't something that's seen, but how one sees...
Perhaps...
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Icelander
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: allisthesame]
#8326267 - 04/25/08 08:43 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
allisthesame said: Whatever... Breathe in love and breathe out forgiveness. I like that... see that is why come on these boards... but I don't see anyone trying to make a point on anything here... only countering someone elses. Like as if anyone were to post a new topic, one would have to scan it to spot any inconsistencies and warn the topic starter and others that said thread is not agreeable only disagreeable. Maybe I little bit of an overstatement but still, I literally see every idea, I like anyway, shot down. Because people are so opinionated here... cause of this knowledge and shit...
And bla bla bla, whine, whine, whine,
Great post.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: future]
#8326270 - 04/25/08 08:44 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
future said: for the first time, maybe ever, we've been close to a miraculous breakthrough in something. Technology is absurd. The next big step HAS to be close.
Yipee
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Noviseer
Percussion isFree
Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 3,994
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8326354 - 04/25/08 09:37 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: You should know by now that the, "I make my own definitions for words" argument doesn't work around here.
Hey, it works in the California Supreme Court
A little more on the "using words properly" argument, cause I find it interesting.
In contract law there's a doctrine called "parol evidence." Basically, to prevent people from making things up about negotiations and lying about the terms of the contract, the judge will look at the signed piece of paper, and if it looks like a complete agreement, he won't let either party bring in extrinsic evidence to explain what the parties really meant.
One exception to the rule arises when the contract contains ambiguous words. There is a famous case between a US chicken seller and a german buyer--apparently in Germany, "chicken" means young chicken, where in America it just means, you know, a type of bird, without an age condition. So in that case, due to the special ambiguity exception, the parties were allowed to bring in evidence to explain what "chicken" really meant.
Now with that background, here's Chief Justice Traynor of the California Supreme Court on the meaning of words, in a famous case from the 60's.
[A contractor and subcontractor are arguing about what a clause in their contract meant.]
"Having determined that the contract had a plain meaning, the court refused to admit any extrinsic evidence that would contradict its interpretation.
When a court interprets a contract on this basis, it determines the meaning of the instrument in accordance with the 'extrinsic evidence of the judge's own linguistic education and experience.' The exclusion of a testimony that might contradict the linguistic background of the judge reflects a judicial belief in the possibility of perfect verbal expression. This belief is a remnant of a primitive faith in the inherent potency and inherent meaning of words.
If words had absolute and constant referents, it might be possible to discover contractual intention in the words themselves and in the manner in which they were arranged. Words, however, do not have absolute and constant referents. 'A word is a symbol of thought but has no arbitrary and fixed meaning like a symbol of algebra or chemistry.' The meaning of a particular word or groups of words varies with the 'verbal context and surrounding circumstances and purposes in view of the linguistic education and experience of their users and their hearers or readers.'
'A word has no meaning apart from these factors; much less does it have an objective meaning, one true meaning.' (Corbin, The Interpretation of Words and the Parol Evidence Rule, 1965)
-------------------- _______________________________________________________________ namaste said: no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped _________________________________________________________________
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allisthesame
Stranger
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Icelander]
#8327785 - 04/25/08 05:22 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Mod Edit: No Flaming Please.
-------------------- Guess what?; You... A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.
Edited by Middleman (04/25/08 05:34 PM)
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: allisthesame]
#8327832 - 04/25/08 05:32 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Don't let people get to you dude, don't give in to frustration or anger. This is Jedi training.
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Lion
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8327904 - 04/25/08 05:57 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
This is Jedi training.
There's some truth to that
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Lion
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Lion]
#8327907 - 04/25/08 05:57 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Cept no one's teaching me to levitate things or fight flawlessly
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Lion]
#8327951 - 04/25/08 06:13 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hatred leads to power. Power leads to victory. Let your anger flow through you. Your hate will make you strong.
--Sith Code.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Noviseer]
#8328041 - 04/25/08 06:34 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noviseer said:
Quote:
Cervantes said: You should know by now that the, "I make my own definitions for words" argument doesn't work around here.
A little more on the "using words properly" argument, cause I find it interesting.
So do I... if you have not noticed.
I'll gladly concede your point, that words are alive and their meaning is in constant flux...
IF you concede mine:
Hippies take this creative wordplay to an extreme which makes actual discussion quite difficult... unless you like talking in circles. This forum could use a little less creativity and a little more adherance to definition.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8328047 - 04/25/08 06:36 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
This forum could use a little less creativity and a little more adherance to definition.
As far as the 'Spirituality' part is concerned, this forum could use a little less adherence to definition and a little more creativity.
I guess we just have different reasons for being here, I'll try to keep my beak out.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8328089 - 04/25/08 06:46 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Most people around here don't even know what spirituality means.
Come on Middle, you know I love to argue... and we are on the same team... I just get tired of talking in riddles... and it is a topic I haven't yet seen addressed.
People like Terrance McKenna found a way to talk SPECIFICALLY about abstract things like tripping. If you listen to his description of his first DMT trip... you KNOW what he his talking about... you can understand him precisely because he DOESN'T talk in riddle-ese.
Talking in circles is a cool thing to do around here, because it is one of the few places where you can do so in ENGLISH, and people will know what you are talking about... so I appreciate why you enjoy doing it. However, outside this website, such communication skills offer little help.
When the day is done, we could accomplish much more as this forum, if we found a common language to speak.
I suggest we start with English.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8328178 - 04/25/08 07:11 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Nice signature Cervantes.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8328179 - 04/25/08 07:12 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
People like Terrance McKenna found a way to talk SPECIFICALLY about abstract things like tripping. If you listen to his description of his first DMT trip... you KNOW what he his talking about... you can understand him precisely because he DOESN'T talk in riddle-ese.
Strange you should mention Terence, I've been listening to a lot of his lectures lately.
He said the only way for entheogen users to be accepted by society is if we form a consensus language and unite as a social group despite our wide range of views and status.
Quote:
Cervantes said:
When the day is done, we could accomplish much more as this forum, if we found a common language to speak.
And what are we accomplishing? I'm here to collect signposts, develop lyrical ideas, and drop leads on vectors of inquiry.
I'm more interested in the ways that people express themselves in words than the validity of the point that they are trying to make.
Fun is integral.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8328196 - 04/25/08 07:19 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes, fun is integral. I have fun by arguing... you have fun by talking in Zen circles. Nothing wrong with either choice.
Terrance knew his linguistics... and that helped further the study of psychedelics.
We COULD accomplish something here... nobody yet knows WHY psychedelics awaken the spiritual side in so many people. It IS something we can be on the forefront of discovering. The Shroomery could do its part.
When I was working on the Tripper's FAQ, I needed THIS forum more than the other ones. For so many, tripping IS spirituality. This forum COULD be on to something, if we'd all agree to communicate.
I have believed this for a LONG time.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8328227 - 04/25/08 07:30 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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In my experience most people here care more about what psychedelic experiences mean to them than they care about being in the vanguard of psychedelic inquiry. I don't care how psychedelics work, I care that they work. And I don't really care whether psychedelics become widely used and accepted, because I don't think they're necessary to fixing the world's problems or being a spiritual person. But members of this forum have helped me integrate my experiences, and often that help has come in the form of abstract insight, koan-like writing, and such. I think a balance is ideal.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Lion]
#8328244 - 04/25/08 07:36 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I care HOW they work, 'cause we tell people HOW to grow 'em... so, shouldn't we understand HOW to TRIP too?
Anything else is potentially unsafe.
I got in trouble here a while back, trying to keep one of the few SCIENTIFIC voices in this forum from being perma-banned. He was banned 'cause he hurt people's feelings... by NOT talking in circles. It was a shame.
BECAUSE, outside the Shroomery, like it or not, the ONLY way we can make A LEGITIMATE POINT is to speak with the voice of SCIENCE.
Spirituality is cool and spirituality is real...
But until we figure out WHAT psychedelics really DO, we'll never be able to make them legal... or even prove them USEFUL.
This forum COULD do its part.
It really could.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8328247 - 04/25/08 07:36 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
This forum COULD be on to something, if we'd all agree to communicate.
We are onto something and we are communicating.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8328256 - 04/25/08 07:38 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Finally.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now *DELETED* [Re: Rose]
#8328268 - 04/25/08 07:41 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Societies change.
Approaching the psychedelic experience from a mechanistic view is preposterous.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8328287 - 04/25/08 07:46 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Are you saying it is IMpossible?
I disagree with THAT paradox.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8328290 - 04/25/08 07:47 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Middleman said: Approaching the psychedelic experience from a mechanistic view is preposterous.
It might be considerably more difficult than from a non-scientific view, but that hardly makes it preposterous. The very fact that we know next to nothing of the neuropharmacological basis behind psychedelics' effect on our brains should give more incentive to study it from a mechanistic view than anything else.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8328293 - 04/25/08 07:48 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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It's just silly. Words are silly. That is all.
The Brain is not the Mind.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8328299 - 04/25/08 07:50 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I couldn't agree more.
If you can come up with a better idea than communicating with a common language, let me know.
McKenna and I ran out of ideas.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8328347 - 04/25/08 08:08 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: Are you saying it is IMpossible?
as far as i know it is impossible to sqeeze experience, and the potential of it into mere concept.
let's take a person with no experience with psychedelics whatsoever. he can conceptually know all there is to know about psychedelics and how they effect the human brain. but this will not bring any understanding of how they really effect the mind, at all.
this is the greatest delusion society has adopted, imo.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: deranger]
#8328361 - 04/25/08 08:11 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I just said the same thing... roughly.
It hasn't YET been figured out.
But we MAY do it...
It IS possible.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8328375 - 04/25/08 08:16 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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you think it is possible to fully convey one's experience through words?
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: deranger]
#8328389 - 04/25/08 08:18 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think words are better vehicles than many think.
The pen still, is mightier than the sword.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8328397 - 04/25/08 08:19 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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well sir, this is where we part.
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Lion]
#8328427 - 04/25/08 08:33 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lion said: In my experience most people here care more about what psychedelic experiences mean to them than they care about being in the vanguard of psychedelic inquiry. I don't care how psychedelics work, I care that they work. And I don't really care whether psychedelics become widely used and accepted, because I don't think they're necessary to fixing the world's problems or being a spiritual person. But members of this forum have helped me integrate my experiences, and often that help has come in the form of abstract insight, koan-like writing, and such. I think a balance is ideal.
Well said, other things have worked for people, but nothing has ultimately changed the world for the better.
For the first time ever the world HAS to change and psychedelics might be the only thing that will make that happen soon enough.
(Be careful what you wish for OC, there's still time to be out of time.)
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allisthesame
Stranger
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Middleman]
#8328873 - 04/25/08 10:33 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Points of view can change... and you can always just remember anyway.
-------------------- Guess what?; You... A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: allisthesame]
#8328927 - 04/25/08 10:49 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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unless trapped in timelessness...
other than that, pretty much.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: deranger]
#8329253 - 04/26/08 01:08 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
SyntheticMInd said: well sir, this is where we part.
So we DON'T communicate...
WELL sir, you are a BIG man...
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
Edited by Rose (04/26/08 02:02 AM)
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TameMe
Stranger
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8329401 - 04/26/08 02:30 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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the impossible becoming actual....
by wording of this question it would be impossible to answer the question.
did you in effect halt the discussion?
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allisthesame
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/08
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8329570 - 04/26/08 05:25 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
Quote:
SyntheticMInd said: well sir, this is where we part.
So we DON'T communicate...
WELL sir, you are a BIG man...
You're always doing waht you're accusing anyone of doing. It's funny, and not at all bad.
-------------------- Guess what?; You... A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: allisthesame]
#8330115 - 04/26/08 10:49 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't deny it ATS...
Asking hippies to use a common language is like herding cats.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#8331377 - 04/26/08 05:06 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: The aliens will reveal themselves - soon.
The world will end - soon.
The Messiah will be returning - soon.
The New Age of Spiriutal enlightenment is almost here.
A Free Energy breakthrough is just around the corner.
The Fountain of Youth is about to be announced.
And don't get me started on 2012...
In my lifetime I have heard a zillion magical claims. Doesn't matter how many times they fall flat, the claims just keep on truckin'. (just check M&P on any given day.)
When the fuck will I actually get to witness one?
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nag Hammadi Coptic Text BLATZ
(113) His disciples said to him: On what day will the kingdom come? <Jesus said:> It will not come while people watch for it; they will not say: Look, here it is, or: Look, there it is; but the kingdom of the father is spread out over the earth, and men do not see it. LAYTON
(113) His disciples said to him, "When is the kingdom going to come?" <Jesus said>, "It is not by being waited for that it is going to come. They are not going to say, 'Here it is' or 'There it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out over the earth, and people do not see it." DORESSE
117 [113]. His disciples said to him: "On what day will the kingdom come?" "It will not come when it is expected. No one will say: 'See, it is here!' or: 'Look, it is there!' but the Kingdom of the Father is spread over the earth and men do not see it."
"Funny thing about the secrets of the east or the secrets of mysticism... THEY'RE NOT SECRET! Nobody's saying 'don't tell him.' They're telling you. They're yelling it. They're saying: 'except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.' That's a secret? Think of how many times you've heard that and you say: 'Yeah, that's really interesting. That's great. That's the minister talking. He's doing his thing. He's a good guy.' The secret is a secret because of where your head is at. Your receiving mechanism isn't tuned for that particular frequency." Page 103 BE HERE NOW
http://event.oprah.com/videochannel/archive/archive_player.html?lesson8 - Eckhart Tolle
It's in your face! 'It's closer to you than your jugular vein' (Qu'ran) It's not found IN time, sooner OR later, it's outside of time in The Eternal Now, which is to say it is the Awareness of your awareness - not in the contents of your awareness. You're looking with your egoic mind and senses, THAT is why you don't see.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (04/26/08 08:30 PM)
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allisthesame
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/08
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8331491 - 04/26/08 05:40 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: I don't deny it ATS...
Asking hippies to use a common language is like herding cats.
You are going all IM this and ACT that and jesus man, you're not using common langauge just like you say... why don't you ask someone to explain themselves instead of calling them dumb hippies.
-------------------- Guess what?; You... A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: allisthesame]
#8331701 - 04/26/08 06:49 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I never called anyone a dumb hippie. Those are your words, not mine.
You even QUOTED me in your post... so read it again if you don't believe me.
What is UP with putting words into other people's mouths?
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8331757 - 04/26/08 07:13 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
Quote:
SyntheticMInd said: well sir, this is where we part.
So we DON'T communicate...
WELL sir, you are a BIG man...
i do like to avoid big headedness by agreeing to disagree, when our perspectives obviously aren't going to coalesce.
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: deranger]
#8331863 - 04/26/08 07:37 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Didn't you already say that with your last post?
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8331926 - 04/26/08 07:49 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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yeah, but minus the reason
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Rose
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: deranger]
#8331934 - 04/26/08 07:50 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Consider your reason noted.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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allisthesame
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/08
Posts: 365
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: Rose]
#8332386 - 04/26/08 09:51 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: I never called anyone a dumb hippie. Those are your words, not mine.
You even QUOTED me in your post... so read it again if you don't believe me.
What is UP with putting words into other people's mouths?
No, you didn't. Shit, no sweat of my sack. But you're obviously not agreeing with anybody so... ><
-------------------- Guess what?; You... A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Always coming soon, but never here and now [Re: allisthesame]
#8332508 - 04/26/08 10:17 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I disagree.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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