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 Cannashroom
Smoke two Joints
 
Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 2,141
Loc: Everywhere
Last seen: 7 years, 23 days
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 Re: Debunking Evolution  [Re: niteowl]
#8311553 - 04/21/08 06:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well, certain single celled algae, when they are close together will join to form a unit, almost in essence a multi-cellular organisms as it will develop specialized cells that on their own could not survive, this is a simple example of simple organisms moving more complex. Mitochondria, the powerhouse of the cell has its own unique DNA, which implies at once point it was a separate organism that joined together with another in symbiosis.
Furthermore, We have fossil record of only single celled organism until a certain point when multicellular organisms evolved. From then on organisms increase in complexity, as they become more and more specified into their niches. We do have evidence of organism becoming more complex over time, LOOK AT THE FOSSILS!
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"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.
This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.
Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.
Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."
Albert Einstein
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MayorMcCheese
Mayor
Registered: 11/10/07
Posts: 390
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Debunking Evolution [Re: niteowl]
#8311562 - 04/21/08 06:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Weak theory? little, to no evidence?Hold on let me dig up some links.
Small changes are the basis of evolution, they are easily demonstrated. Large changes take time, more time than you can understand.
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toastandjam
Tastes Grate, Lesh Philling
Registered: 05/07/06
Posts: 752
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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It's also important to understand what you mean by 'increasing complexity'. What do you mean by that, exactly?
I'm talking down to the nitty gritty of form and function. I'll have to consult my girlfriend when she gets home, as comparative vertebrate anatomy is more her field, but there are all kinds of clearly observable, stunning correlation across all body systems in so many organisms it'll make your head spin.
You can find these patterns not just on the large scale too, I mean down to the microscopic cellular level, on the order of synthesizing proteins and complex molecular systems.
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Q: We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons... and for one brief moment, you did.
PICARD: When I realized the paradox...
Q: Exactly. For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you'd never considered. That's the exploration that awaits you...not mapping stars and studying nebulae... but charting the unknowable possibilities of existence.
To carry yourself forward and experience myriad things is delusion. That myriad things come forth and experience themselves is awakening. -Dogen Zenji
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MayorMcCheese
Mayor
Registered: 11/10/07
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"Biological evolution is a change in the genetic characteristics of a population over time. That this happens is a fact. Biological evolution also refers to the common descent of living organisms from shared ancestors. The evidence for historical evolution -- genetic, fossil, anatomical, etc. -- is so overwhelming that it is also considered a fact. The theory of evolution describes the mechanisms that cause evolution. So evolution is both a fact and a theory."
That explains the fact vs theory argument in a few words.
source: talkorigins.org
also see : http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
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MayorMcCheese
Mayor
Registered: 11/10/07
Posts: 390
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Ah here we go. There is no point in getting into a big debate. Most of your claims or questions are addressed here
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html
complete with hundreds of valid & cited sources.
have fun 
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Psy Baba
That was zen, This is Tao
Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 16,430
Loc: The land of Ports.
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so the over powered white man will prevail?
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Sit up and meditate, there's no time to contemplate.
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I have an international Hitech Psytrance project with a friend: BioChronic
I make various form of Psytrance as a solo Project Dendriform
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toastandjam
Tastes Grate, Lesh Philling
Registered: 05/07/06
Posts: 752
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: Debunking Evolution [Re: Psy Baba]
#8311650 - 04/21/08 06:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
DuNeRaVeR said:
so the over powered white man will prevail?
Huh?
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Q: We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons... and for one brief moment, you did.
PICARD: When I realized the paradox...
Q: Exactly. For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you'd never considered. That's the exploration that awaits you...not mapping stars and studying nebulae... but charting the unknowable possibilities of existence.
To carry yourself forward and experience myriad things is delusion. That myriad things come forth and experience themselves is awakening. -Dogen Zenji
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Psy Baba
That was zen, This is Tao
Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 16,430
Loc: The land of Ports.
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Debunking Evolution [Re: toastandjam]
#8311653 - 04/21/08 06:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Eh, scratch that, I misread.
I began to read:
"No rational man, cognizant of the facts, believes that the average negro is the equal . . . of the white man. And if this be true, it is simply incredible that, when all his disabilities are removed . . . he will be able to compete successfully with his bigger-brained and smaller-jawed rival, in a contest which is to be carried out by thoughts and not by bites."
but then saw
"Huxley's view of the inferiority of blacks was not a product of evolution, but was the prevailing attitude of the time. He was less racist than most of his contemporaries. Abraham Lincoln, for example, held much the same view as Huxley:"
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Sit up and meditate, there's no time to contemplate.
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I have an international Hitech Psytrance project with a friend: BioChronic
I make various form of Psytrance as a solo Project Dendriform
Edited by Psy Baba (04/21/08 06:32 PM)
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Chemy
Jesus is Lord
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: Debunking Evolution [Re: toastandjam]
#8311663 - 04/21/08 06:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
toastandjam said:
Quote:
DuNeRaVeR said:
so the over powered white man will prevail?
Huh?
I'm not sure, but I think Duneraver wanted to debunk evolution, and you and others have posted some very good evidence proving the theory of evolution to be a highly probable theory.
Now 
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Psy Baba
That was zen, This is Tao
Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 16,430
Loc: The land of Ports.
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Re: Debunking Evolution [Re: Chemy]
#8311668 - 04/21/08 06:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chemy said:
Quote:
toastandjam said:
Quote:
DuNeRaVeR said:
so the over powered white man will prevail?
Huh?
I'm not sure, but I think Duneraver wanted to debunk evolution, and you and others have posted some very good evidence proving the theory of evolution to be a highly probable theory.
Now
That was not my intention. I am not even 80% sure of either side in my mind.
I wanted people to put forth information that I could observe and take into consideration.
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---------------------------------------------------
Sit up and meditate, there's no time to contemplate.
-------------------------------------------------
I have an international Hitech Psytrance project with a friend: BioChronic
I make various form of Psytrance as a solo Project Dendriform
Edited by Psy Baba (04/21/08 06:35 PM)
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 niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: 
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evolution is both a fact and a theory.
It is a fact that we see single celled organisms (viruses) mutate to form a different kind of single celled organism (viruses).
It is a theory that humans evolved from a single celled organism
So the whole "We evolved from a single celled organism" idea, simply doesn't hold water, because there is no evidence to back that theory up.
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Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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MayorMcCheese
Mayor
Registered: 11/10/07
Posts: 390
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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I don't know. Why don't you do some research provide some links and get back to us. 
These changes occur over a period of time that one cannot really grasp properly.
edit: hers a link with macro evolution information
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB901.html
Edited by MayorMcCheese (04/21/08 06:43 PM)
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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I have done all the research I need to do.
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Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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MayorMcCheese
Mayor
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Posts: 390
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Debunking Evolution [Re: niteowl]
#8311701 - 04/21/08 06:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said:
It is a theory that humans evolved from a single celled organism
So the whole "We evolved from a single celled organism" idea, simply doesn't hold water, because there is no evidence to back that theory up.
I would say that is a theory of the origin of species / life.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Debunking Evolution [Re: niteowl]
#8311713 - 04/21/08 06:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Everything I have EVER read on evolution, states that evolution from single celled organisms to full blown mammals is a THEORY.
Speculation, if you will.
There simply is not enough evidence available, to make a decision one way or the other.
Trust me I'd be the first one to jump for joy if evolution is ever proven, but with the time frames involved, evolution will ALWAYS be a THEORY.
It takes as much faith to buy into evolution, as it does to buy into any religion.
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Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Quote:
MayorMcCheese said:
I would say that is a theory of the origin of species / life.
Exactly, it is a theory....not FACT
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Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Thor
Anti-Theist OVERLORD
Registered: 08/12/98
Posts: 10,017
Loc: Iceland 
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Re: Debunking Evolution [Re: niteowl]
#8311724 - 04/21/08 06:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said:
I have done all the research I need to do.
I'd love to hear what that research was, and what sources you learned from.
BTW my only concern is not if people want to spend the effort to learn about evolution (so they will know its true) but rather that Intelligent Design never be taught in SCIENCE class as its NOT science, its Creationism dressed up to look like science.
If people truly look at evidence for evolution and dismiss it, I can at least respect someone for researching it from SCIENCE sources, not religious sources which are full of lies and propoganda against evolution.
If people know next to nothing about evolution, and make statements because they read somewhere that evolution is controversial... then I have zero respect. At least LEARN for yourself and THEN decide.
Those 2 FREE HHMI DVD's done by Ken Miller are an EXCELLENT start to feeding your mind.
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toastandjam
Tastes Grate, Lesh Philling
Registered: 05/07/06
Posts: 752
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: Debunking Evolution [Re: niteowl]
#8311735 - 04/21/08 06:55 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said:
evolution is both a fact and a theory.
It is a fact that we see single celled organisms (viruses) mutate to form a different kind of single celled organism (viruses).
It is a theory that humans evolved from a single celled organism
So the whole "We evolved from a single celled organism" idea, simply doesn't hold water, because there is no evidence to back that theory up.
You're missing a lot of evidence. I specifically chose the word 'disingenuous' in my earlier post because your mind is made up regardless of the facts at hand. I'm here to explain things to the original poster as best I can. Do we really have to do the whole fundamentalist debate thing?
Quote:
I have done all the research I need to do.
...to maintain your world-view. There's plenty more research available that you're probably unaware of. Single celled organisms are observed to form multicellular colonies all the time. They will even share vital resources for survival and act collaboratively.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv.fcgi?db=Books&rid=cell.section.61
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Q: We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons... and for one brief moment, you did.
PICARD: When I realized the paradox...
Q: Exactly. For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you'd never considered. That's the exploration that awaits you...not mapping stars and studying nebulae... but charting the unknowable possibilities of existence.
To carry yourself forward and experience myriad things is delusion. That myriad things come forth and experience themselves is awakening. -Dogen Zenji
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MayorMcCheese
Mayor
Registered: 11/10/07
Posts: 390
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Debunking Evolution [Re: toastandjam]
#8311746 - 04/21/08 06:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Viruses are also constantly changing and adapting making it hard to develop vaccines for them.
I guess it all depends on how large of a change you need to see to believe it.
edit:
Thats what makes debating this topic difficult. Different people want different amounts of proof.
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Thor
Anti-Theist OVERLORD
Registered: 08/12/98
Posts: 10,017
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Debunking Evolution [Re: niteowl]
#8311753 - 04/21/08 06:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
There simply is not enough evidence available, to make a decision one way or the other.
There is a mountain of evidence from biology, chemistry, and even more recently genetics!
Quote:
Trust me I'd be the first one to jump for joy if evolution is ever proven, but with the time frames involved, evolution will ALWAYS be a THEORY.
Do you believe in the theory of gravity? How about Germ Theory or Atomic Theory?
You simply do not grasp what the term Theory means in Science. Theory of Gravity will never be called anything else, yet you don't dispute gravity?
Quote:
It takes as much faith to buy into evolution, as it does to buy into any religion.
It takes very little effort to buy into a religion. Science takes effort, research, critical thinking, analysis, peer review, etc.. If something is proven wrong, science is eager to see the evidence. Science is not faith, its evidence, and in the case of Evolution OVERWHELMING evidence over 150 yrs of evolutionary research in many scientific fields.
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