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mindspin
Heirophant

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 96
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: thedudenj]
#8285373 - 04/15/08 02:14 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I feel as though shrooms bestowed upon me a certain level of spirituality. I have learned to accept the unknown.
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satyr
אתה בעצמך יודע


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 3,396
Loc: Alpha Canis Majoris
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: mindspin]
#8285653 - 04/15/08 05:45 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think that we are all getting too caught up in terminology. By calling it spiritual, or calling it non-spiritual, we place limits on these chemicals so that they may only fall under two categories; each of which have subjective meanings. It is as simple as this: The world in which we know is a series of codes that is recieved by the 5 senses and interpreted by our brains to be defined into 3d "reality", a large amount of which gets filtered out and never gets translated. Psychedelics posses a power and a means in which to access these energies that cannot be interpreted by the senses. They allow one traverse the plateaus of the mind, to descend into lower vibrational states of being, or to ascend into higher states of awareness. They open one to a realm of infinite possibility; whether or not this is to be considered spiritual is entirely up to the partaker of the psychedelic
-------------------- Looking for Astrophytum asterias specimens; have cacti for trade
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Leviathan
Poignancy...



Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 131
Loc: NW Pennsylvania
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: thedudenj]
#8285729 - 04/15/08 06:58 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
thedudenj said: ... Its only spiritual people that make them that way otherwise they are just drugs, specially ones dont come from inside living things. They are just another thing to get fucked up on.
its only spiritual people that make them that way, people with heightened awareness and perception of reality that make the advancement cause regardless they would be doing that anyway. I think there is a high amount of spiritual people that are aware but a taught not to be and by taking psychedelics or inebriation in general they forget those boundaries that were placed on them and form into their true selves which as i said very much so would happen anyway for the most part.
This is mainly due to primary institutions marginalizing the truly gifted spiritual people Aka not the full of crap Catholic priest that feel boys but the real ones. as well as lulling the rest of society and making them unaware to whats going on by making them more intrested in insignificant things, i hold that the spiritual person rests on hightened awareness of the mind,body and soul and thats all cause thats all it takes when those cant be ignored Personal growth cant be either
PEACE.
I disagree somewhat here. I do believe certain people are naturally more aware of their spirituality than others, but most other people have been "lulled" as you said into numb, disconnected sheep. Everyone can have a spiritual experience... It just depends on a number of different factors for different people. If those who are more spiritually charged acted as teachers to others under the influence of an entheogen, they could certainly help them along their path to waking up. Spiritually-charged people usually are more in touch with the spirit itself, the constant within everyone, and usually can read people quite well. I am one.. according to my Life Path in Numerology, anyway. But I know I am.
-------------------- Look me in my brand new EYE....
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unretarded
Tick and poisionoak collector



Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 4,401
Loc: Cali
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: Leviathan]
#8286188 - 04/15/08 10:22 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Not to sound harsh ,but...people have life changing scenarios when bubba gets em in the bung hole at jail.....is that a spiritual exsperiance
Just because we become aware of something in a certain state of mind does not mean the conduit for that state of mind was spiritual in nature. I almost drowned at the beach in the waves and I had a life changing "spiritual"exsperiance ...is the water in the ocean waves spirituall...?
We have a filter called perception,this filter gets lifted or suspended when we do drugs /near death exsperiances and about any traumatic tragic situation will do this,we already know this info that seems to materialize when on the perception filters or blockers.
All you did was calm the mind enuff to hear this already understood logic that you were just not aware of,your mind already knew ,but your perception was not correct......hence the realization when taking the perception blockers.
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Leviathan
Poignancy...



Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 131
Loc: NW Pennsylvania
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: unretarded]
#8286300 - 04/15/08 10:45 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
unretarded said: Not to sound harsh ,but...people have life changing scenarios when bubba gets em in the bung hole at jail.....is that a spiritual exsperiance
Just because we become aware of something in a certain state of mind does not mean the conduit for that state of mind was spiritual in nature. I almost drowned at the beach in the waves and I had a life changing "spiritual"exsperiance ...is the water in the ocean waves spirituall...?
We have a filter called perception,this filter gets lifted or suspended when we do drugs /near death exsperiances and about any traumatic tragic situation will do this,we already know this info that seems to materialize when on the perception filters or blockers.
All you did was calm the mind enuff to hear this already understood logic that you were just not aware of,your mind already knew ,but your perception was not correct......hence the realization when taking the perception blockers.
True. Especially the last paragraph... I've always been amazed at how much I've come to realize but have known and felt all along. The experience itself can be labeled spiritual, not the conduit.
-------------------- Look me in my brand new EYE....
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: Leviathan]
#8286530 - 04/15/08 11:32 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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i think this is an amazing thread
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  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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satyr
אתה בעצמך יודע


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 3,396
Loc: Alpha Canis Majoris
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: thedudenj]
#8287070 - 04/15/08 02:18 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Threads over the nature of psychedelics are always great discussion. Its interesting to hear the perspectives of others on these chemicals and how they experience them. I know of people who actually believe that psychedelics poison the brain, therefore causing hallucinations.
-------------------- Looking for Astrophytum asterias specimens; have cacti for trade
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Leviathan
Poignancy...



Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 131
Loc: NW Pennsylvania
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: satyr]
#8288081 - 04/15/08 06:16 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
satyr said: Threads over the nature of psychedelics are always great discussion. Its interesting to hear the perspectives of others on these chemicals and how they experience them. I know of people who actually believe that psychedelics poison the brain, therefore causing hallucinations.
Yes.. I was on some drug abuse website earlier and I honestly can say I thought I've heard elaborate bullshit before, but OH MY.
-------------------- Look me in my brand new EYE....
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: thedudenj]
#8288510 - 04/15/08 07:35 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Psychedelics are not spiritual... because psychadelics are THINGS... and THINGS can't be SPIRITual. A spirit, by definition can't be a REAL THING. You can hold a psychedelic and therefore it can not be spiritual.
However, if you eat a psychedelic and actually trip, you WILL have a spiritual EXPERIENCE... you may not see god, but you will experience something intangible. Tripping is an experience (an experience lives in the mind)... and anybody's PERCEPTION of an experience is by definition, spiritual. You can NOT hold a perception.
People think the word spiritual = religion... it doesn't.
I hope that helps.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
Edited by Rose (04/15/08 08:16 PM)
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: Rose]
#8288856 - 04/15/08 08:55 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think the real issue is whether or not reality is spiritual. If psychedelics open up your perseption to a bigger picture and deeper truths, if reality has a 'divine' or spiritual nature to it, one cannot help but have a spiritual experience if you come in contact with it.
On the other hand, if the universe is a purely reductionist construction of spacetime and the human perseption and there is no dimension that we would call spiritual or mystical implicit in it, then psychedelics don't elicit spiritual experiences, rather its just 'spiritual' people that see what they want to and encode the experience as such with their own mental constructions.
This is a question worth asking.
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: Divided_Sky]
#8289032 - 04/15/08 09:30 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Divided_Sky said: If reality has a 'divine' or spiritual nature to it, one cannot help but have a spiritual experience if you come in contact with it.
Divinity and spirituality are two different things.
All things divine are also spiritual... but not all spiritual things are divine.
Kinda like how...
All whiskey is bourbon... but not all bourbon is whiskey.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: Rose]
#8289524 - 04/15/08 11:04 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
Quote:
Divided_Sky said: If reality has a 'divine' or spiritual nature to it, one cannot help but have a spiritual experience if you come in contact with it.
Divinity and spirituality are two different things.
All things divine are also spiritual... but not all spiritual things are divine.
Kinda like how...
All whiskey is bourbon... but not all bourbon is whiskey.
oh shit son !! that is very true cause demons can be spiritual
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  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: thedudenj]
#8292026 - 04/16/08 04:07 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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This is so stupid. It's obvious that psychedelics can facilitate spiritual experiences. Therefor, for those people they are spiritual. End.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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TopHat
Stranger

Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 103
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: thedudenj]
#8292039 - 04/16/08 04:10 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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i just do psychs for fun and dont look for anythin spiritul next time ill try to but it sounds like a lot of thinking involvd
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why_not_me
I live tranquilized



Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 1,223
Loc: Fluffy opiate cloud
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: TopHat]
#8292131 - 04/16/08 04:37 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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-------------------- Feed Your Head.
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TopHat
Stranger

Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 103
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: why_not_me]
#8292155 - 04/16/08 04:41 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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i never really thoght about sitting around and letting it take over me. i just wanted to have fun with it. but maybe there is something to this spiritual thing
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: TopHat]
#8292180 - 04/16/08 04:46 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Inducing spirituality is not a requisite with these substances... having fun with 'em is how probably most of us originally got started on psychedelics. But they can be very powerful tools when it comes to self psycho-therapy and understanding yourself. Think of it as an extension of meditation, for instance.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: deCypher]
#8292387 - 04/16/08 05:27 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Many people in this thread use the word SPIRITUAL incorrectly.
Spirituality is NOT synonomous with believing in a deity.
The imagination is spiritual.
Emotions are spiritual.
The id, the ego and the super ego are spiritual.
Thoughts are spiritual.
Your personal perception of reality is spiritual.
Yes, God is also, spiritual... but belief in a god is only a small part of the spirituality pie.
Spirituality is belief in something which is NOT PHYSICALLY THERE... nothing more, nothing less.
A TRIP is NOT PHYSICALLY THERE.
Can you hold a trip?
See?
A trip is SPIRITual... but psychedelics are REAL, so by definition, they can't possibly be spiritual.
Get it?
Don't believe me?
Here's all the definitions (I JUST posted this in a different forum sorry if you are reading it a second time.):
I got access to the full Oxford English Dictionary website... and I figured I should post the "Spiritual" information I was able to dig up.
The online website costs $$$... and the actual dictionary set is as large as a complete set of Encyclopedia volumes... so I hope you don't mind that I can't post the links... however, these ARE the entries... if you don't believe me, go to a library...
AND, these definitions ARE the definitions which all English dictionaries use as their primary source.
I find this stuff fascinating.
The OED is a BRITTISH dictionary, so you may notice slight differences in spelling of some words... especially if you are from North America.
So, without further ado...
From Oxford English Dictionary:
spiritual /spírichl/ adj.
adj. 1. of or concerning the spirit as opposed to matter. 2. concerned with sacred or religious things (spiritual songs). 3. (of the mind, etc.) refined; sensitive. 4. concerned with the spirit, etc., not with external reality (his spiritual home).
And from the same book, the definition of Spirit:
spirit
→ noun 1. the non-physical part of a person which is the seat of emotions and character; the soul: we seek a harmony between body and spirit.
• such a part regarded as a person's true self and as capable of surviving physical death or separation: a year after he left, his spirit is still present. • such a part manifested as an apparition after a person's death; a ghost. • a supernatural being: shrines to nature spirits. • ( Spirit ) short for Holy Spirit. 2. [in sing.] the prevailing or typical quality, mood, or attitude of a person, group, or period of time: I hope the team will build on this spirit of confidence | the university is a symbol of the nation's egalitarian spirit.
• [with adj.] a person identified with their most prominent quality or with their role in a group or movement: he was a leading spirit in the conference. • (often spirits) a person's mood or attitude: the warm weather lifted everyone's spirits | he confessed in a spirit of self-respect. • [mass noun] the quality of courage, energy, and determination: his visitors admired his spirit and good temper. 3. the real meaning or the intention behind something as opposed to its strict verbal interpretation: the rule had been broken in spirit if not in letter. 4. (usu. spirits) (chiefly Brit.) strong distilled liquor such as brandy, whiskey, gin, or rum.
• [mass noun] [with modifier] a volatile liquid, especially a fuel, prepared by distillation: aviation spirit. • (archaic) a solution of volatile components extracted from something, typically by distillation or by solution in alcohol: spirits of turpentine. 5. (archaic) a highly refined substance or fluid thought to govern vital phenomena.
→ verb (spirits, spiriting, spirited) 1. [with obj. and adverbial of direction] convey rapidly and secretly: stolen cows were spirited away some distance to prevent detection. 2. [with obj.] (spirit someone up) (archaic) stimulate, animate, or cheer up someone.
enter into the spirit join wholeheartedly in an event, especially one of celebration and festivity: he entered into the spirit of the occasion by dressing as a pierrot.
in ( or in the ) spirit in thought or intention though not physically: he couldn't be here in person, but he is with us in spirit.
the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak (proverb) someone has good intentions but fails to live up to them. [ORIGIN with biblical allusion to Matt. 26:41.]
when the spirit moves someone when someone feels inclined to do something: he can be quite candid when the spirit moves him. [ORIGIN a phrase originally in Quaker use, with reference to the Holy Spirit.]
the spirit world (in animistic and occult belief) the non-physical realm in which disembodied spirits have their existence.
- ORIGIN Middle English: from Anglo-Norman French, from Latin spiritus ‘breath, spirit’, from spirare ‘breathe’.
From the Oxford English Dictionary of Philosophy:
spirit (Latin, spiritus: breath, life, soul, mind) When we describe things in terms of spirited responses, mean-spirited behaviour, a spirited waltz, and so on, we are characterizing them purely as lively or animated. It is a short, but perhaps philosophically fatal, step to thinking of the spirit as that which animates them: the principle or immaterial source from which the animation flows. One's own spirit becomes a soul or mind or Ego; while the principle from which all natural events emanate becomes the animating principle of the cosmos, or world-spirit. The notion of a Geist is that of a spirit that breathes through things, and in Hegel the highest level of spirit, distinguished from the individual spirit and the social or political spirit, is the absolute spirit to whose realization world history is directed. See also absolute idealism.
From the Oxford Companion to Philosophy:
spirit. Spirits hover between minds, souls, and vapours. The original idea of a spirit is of a disembodied agent, as an immaterial soul or a non-material intelligent power. In the seventeenth century and earlier there was a belief in spirits as gaslike substances intermediate between matter and mind. For all his dualism Descartes in Les Passions de l'âme uses the idea. When we talk now of the spiritual we refer to neither of these but typically to the kind of emotion one might have towards God or some other factor beyond one's material life. An image common to all three of these seems to be one of distillation, of a more refined product of a crude original.
Prof. Adam Morton See also pneuma.
From The Consice Oxford English Dictionary of Etymology:
spirit A. breath of life;
B. vital principle;
C. incorporeal being XIII; immaterial element of a human being;
D. vital power XIV;
E. †any of four substances so named of the alchemists XIV; liquid of the nature of an essence XVII. — AN., aphetic of espirit, OF. esperit, (also mod.) esprit — L. spritus breathing, breath, air, life, soul, pride, courage, (in Chr. use) incorporeal being, f. sprre breathe. Hence spirit vb. (arch.) enliven, inspirit XVI; carry away mysteriously XVII. spirited ( -ED2) XVI. spiritism XIX. So spiritual pert. to the spirit XIV; ecclesiastical XIV. ME. spirituel (later latinized) — (O)F. spirituel — L. spritulis; see -AL1. spirituality XV. — (O)F. or late L. spiritualism XIX. spirituous †spirited XVI; ardent, alcoholic XVII. — F. spiritueux or f. L. spritus
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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TopHat
Stranger

Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 103
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: deCypher]
#8292406 - 04/16/08 05:31 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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meditation is what i need i just never understood it or how to do it
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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Re: Psychedelics arnt spiritual!!!!! ... [Re: deCypher]
#8292748 - 04/16/08 06:44 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Cypher said: Inducing spirituality is not a requisite with these substances... having fun with 'em is how probably most of us originally got started on psychedelics. But they can be very powerful tools when it comes to self psycho-therapy and understanding yourself. Think of it as an extension of meditation, for instance.
depends on who finds em
--------------------
  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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